Cycle critique please

[Skins]

Can you explain this please.

It just what I've read, Stewie. Perhaps you can be of help with his issue.


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[Skins]

Tren binds tightly to the AR. That's probably a better way to write it. Though, I've read it will cause the receptor to not accept other androgen binding agents like test, causing the test to flow throughout the blood freely.

I could use more clarification on this myself.


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[Stewie]

It just what I've read, Stewie. Perhaps you can be of help with his issue.


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I totally understand

In simple terms: some anabolics have a higher affinity for the androgen receptor. If you understand the definition of affinity you'll get a clearer picture of this statement e.g., "higher affinity". With that in mind, just because a particular anabolic has a higher binding affinity, doesn't mean it kicks other androgens to the curb. It simply means the complex of the nuclear receptor
is binding a particular anabolic more substantially. There can be more than one anabolic or androgen active within the same receptor.

 

[Stewie]

To add to my last statement. After the binding occurs with two different AAS in the androgen receptors, the receptors then form dimers, or conjunctions, then it's these dimers that work to increase transcription of DNA. This results in a synergistic effect.

Hopefully this makes sense?

 

[neverenuff21]

It does. Hence the concept of the sum is greater than its parts.

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[neverenuff21]

I mean, in theory i understand the concept. But i guess both have to bind to a limited amount of receptors on cell surface before they can even get to point of synergy.

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[LK3]

after 30 even small amount of tren gave me wicked gyno. tried it maybe 4 times since then and all the same. lol

prami is a funny drug to use and can have many side effects, in all probability just from a quick glance you may need more help against the tren.

try switching to caber or lowering or dropping the tren.

I used to run 700mgs form kits no problem, last year I tested some tren base and had to cut it back from 150ish mgs to 100ish mgs and that was just barley tolerable...

 

[Skins]

To add to my last statement. After the binding occurs with two different AAS in the androgen receptors, the receptors then form dimers, or conjunctions, then it's these dimers that work to increase transcription of DNA. This results in a synergistic effect.



Hopefully this makes sense?

... Yes. And is more helpful information in short than I've read at length. Which brings more questions.

Is there a point to which saturation occurs? If so, is it defendant upon the how many receptors the body has... A while back I read an article describing a test that can be performed to determine the amount of receptors in the body, describing a ratio from 6-36 as it's scale. The writer suggests the lower the number, the greater a probability of being a "high responder" to AAS and could account for greater "sides" as opposed to someone with with more receptors whom could absorb more (thus the need for a higher dose to effect the same as the next who does less with equal response). I think it was called a GAC profile I've looked and googled for this. Can't find it, though I remember it was posted on Meso-RX (thinksteroids.com if that helps).

Or do dimers continue to be created as needed when more anabolic is introduced? And could this effect be responsible for the OP's gyno...




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[neverenuff21]

after 30 even small amount of tren gave me wicked gyno. tried it maybe 4 times since then and all the same. lol

prami is a funny drug to use and can have many side effects, in all probability just from a quick glance you may need more help against the tren.

try switching to caber or lowering or dropping the tren.

I used to run 700mgs form kits no problem, last year I tested some tren base and had to cut it back from 150ish mgs to 100ish mgs and that was just barley tolerable...

100-150 a week?

It seems to be the same for me. Im now prone to it.

And i don't care for prami, i was trying it on recommendation from someone else. Im going back to caber.

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[neverenuff21]

... Yes. And is more helpful information in short than I've read at length. Which brings more questions.

Is there a point to which saturation occurs? If so, is it defendant upon the how many receptors the body has... A while back I read an article describing a test that can be performed to determine the amount of receptors in the body, describing a ratio from 6-36 as it's scale. The writer suggests the lower the number, the greater a probability of being a "high responder" to AAS and could account for greater "sides" as opposed to someone with with more receptors whom could absorb more (thus the need for a higher dose to effect the same as the next who does less with equal response). I think it was called a GAC profile I've looked and googled for this. Can't find it, though I remember it was posted on Meso-RX (thinksteroids.com if that helps).

Or do dimers continue to be created as needed when more anabolic is introduced? And could this effect be responsible for the OP's gyno...




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I absolutely could agree with you on this. Ive always responded real quick to aas. And seen better results than friends on the same amount. But my body seems to adjust really fast too. Shbg, aromatizing, etc. Question for me now is figuring out how its trying to compensate so i can fight that.

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[Skins]

I would agree with LK3. Drop something out.


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[neverenuff21]

Dang. That's depressing, lol

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[Arko.]

Cut tren, add masteron problem solved.
Masteron is very effective in addition to test for bulking and cutting.
Tren is not necessary and does more harm than good... Gives me bad gyno even after a single shot. Bad sleep, bad mood, depression, bad sex long term, I'll feeling....

Most think masteron is only for cutting and only see results at low bodyfat, but this is just not true.
Moderate test + moderate masteron = fantastic gains with enough calories. The gains are solid, and you won't be a bloated mess. If you really want to see amazing things add in 3-4iu of good gh.
To lean out same thing but lower test dose by half or more, keep masteron on the moderate to high side and calories balanced properly using higher protein, moderate to low carbs mostly complex, and fats moderate and you'll see amazing things as well.

If your masteron doesn't provide the results I mention, its not real masteron period.

 

[neverenuff21]

I haven't thought of that. Im naturally lean, so lean gains are not my goal as much as just quality gains period. I do really like mast but don't have any on hand right this minute. I used to love tren but im starting to think it's not my cup of tea for my purposes. Have yet to go down the gh rabbit hole, but am interested. Just have to put in my research first. Im 33 and joints have 16+ years of lifting on them, so the gh is enticing from that aspect. Thanks for the input everyone.

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[Arko.]

I hear ya on the joints issue.. I'm over 20 years with a good portion of it focused on strength more than anything and have been through numerous injuries due to heavy weight.

Adding masteron to your test won't slow gains at all, it will work wonders on either bulking or cutting. Most either haven't tried mast for bulking or gaining or when they did it wasn't real masteron.
By itself it won't provide big gains, but with test its a different story.. And add even 3 iu's of tp's grey tops or other quality gh and sky's the limit.

 

[neverenuff21]

Well i have a slightly elevated psa, hence the dutasteride, so i really limit my dht derivatives..

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[neverenuff21]

Oh, and ive been on trt fir 7+ years

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[Stewie]

... Yes. And is more helpful information in short than I've read at length. Which brings more questions.

Is there a point to which saturation occurs? If so, is it defendant upon the how many receptors the body has... A while back I read an article describing a test that can be performed to determine the amount of receptors in the body, describing a ratio from 6-36 as it's scale. The writer suggests the lower the number, the greater a probability of being a "high responder" to AAS and could account for greater "sides" as opposed to someone with with more receptors whom could absorb more (thus the need for a higher dose to effect the same as the next who does less with equal response). I think it was called a GAC profile I've looked and googled for this. Can't find it, though I remember it was posted on Meso-RX (thinksteroids.com if that helps).

Or do dimers continue to be created as needed when more anabolic is introduced? And could this effect be responsible for the OP's gyno...
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What you are referring to is CAG repeat, not GAC. Easy to confuse nonetheless. It's one of the 4 domains of the androgen receptor gene. It's located in the DNA segment. It's not determined by a ratio, rather it's the total amount of CAG repeats one has. Which some research states 10 to 36 repeats, as others claim 6 to 37 on the chromosomes. Testing for total CAG repeats has been used for a number of years in research and treatment for different diseased states. As far as anabolic response, I'm sure there's some interplay with one's total amount of CAG repeats. There's other genes involved that differentiate anabolic response. I've posted on this a few times.

Dimers are in constant replication, unless there's some mutations or DNA damage.

As for saturation. I'm sorry to say, I'm a bit burned out on the whole upregulation/downregulation and saturation of the androgen receptor. There's much more to it than a claiming these three things. It gets boring reading people trying to put a new spin on anabolics.

 

[Arko.]

Well i have a slightly elevated psa, hence the dutasteride, so i really limit my dht derivatives..

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There's info out there now saying dht, and elevated PSA isn't necessarily the culprit.. I forget where I came across this info, but issues like growth of prostate come from elevated estro levels amount others.
On mast I don't lose hair, but on winy it falls out badly. Also don't notice prostate enlargement on mast either after 4-5 years almost non stop with trt.
This is counter to what many say, but is the truth for me personally.

Something to consider is at a young age we have high dht naturally, as we age test and dht drop substantially by 40-50yrs which is the age most get prostate problems.. As dht drops, estro goes up creating lower libido, less and less sex as times goes on...less draining/use of the prostate which is supposed to keep the prostate healthy..
But add in dht or masteron, and it competes with receptors that estro binds to keeping it diminished in terms of related side effects.
On top of that were exposed to many estro mimicking chemicals, estrogen in out meat and so on which no doubt in my mind is a factor in both breast cancer, and prostate enlargement and/or cancer..
This of course is what I've concluded doing my own research if you want to call it that but
I feel much healthier on trt with mast even at a low dose.. In every way.

Masteron was originally developed and used as breast cancer treatment, and worked quite well except for its virilization effect on women.

 

[neverenuff21]

Good to know Arko. Thanks man, ill start checking into that as it relates to estrogen

And telling my wife she needs to get with the program on draining this pesky prostate more often.

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