Cycle Critique :)

[Dubs]

Hey guys, what do you think of this cycle?

Test C weeks 1-4 200 mgs/w, weeks 4-10 400 mgs/w
Dianabol weeks 1-4 20 mg/d
HCG weeks 6-11 500 IU 2x/w
Arimidex weeks 1-13 0.5 mg/d
Nolva weeks 13-14 40 mg/d, weeks 15-16 20 mg/d

I was also considering running HCG through the entire cycle, @ 250 iu 2x/w from week one, all the way to week 11. stopping one week after the cycle ends. then one week later (a total of 2 weeks after last shot of test), i start pct. I plan on the HCG from w 6-11 @ 500 IU 2x/w instead, i hate feeling like a human pin cushion LOL. Would it work just as well to run it at 500 2x/w the last month? would this bring the natural test production back enough to speed up recovery along with pct?

Any thoughts/critique/comments appreciated
thanks

 

[mexbeast]

Your cycle looks good to me for a beginner. But if I could make a suggestion it would be to hold of on the HCG and start taking it on week 12 . It would better that way when all the test is out of your system since its suppose to restart your testies. I would also keep the Nolva at 10 mgs a day , too much of Nova is counter productive. You want to use it to prevent estrogen side effects. Anything over 20 mgs will probobly act as an estrogen and defeat the purpose. Besides if you are taking Arimidex I doubt you need Nolva.. Anyway your asking for a critique so those are my thoughts. Enjoy your cycle and good luck. Peace..

 

[fatguy]

Any reason you aren't running 400mg if the Test Cyp from day 1?

Also HCG is best utilized at the end of a cycle before PCT begins... I have always used it at the end of a cycle, and to bridge the gap into PCT. The idea for this it to bring the testicles back to their full size and operating ability as you begin PCT. I usually run it over a 2-3 week period.

If you are estrogen sensitive... HCG might cause you some issues. Make sure to have extra estro blockers/Anti-aromatase meds in hand. Lower doses more often is a preferred method in my eyes.

 

[natabolic]

what id do

Run the test @ 400 mgs from week one to ten, as mentioned above

keep the adex as written

are you using the nolva as pct? if so, only use the 40 mgs/d for the first week, the next 3 weeks use only the 20/d.

dbol looks good. if its your first cycle you probably dont even need it, but its always good for a jump start.

as for hcg, id use it at 500 ius 2x/w for the last 2-4 weeks. you have it written as 4? correct? finishing up 1 week before pct starts, it looks all good. run the adex through with the hcg, as to keep away any estro sides from the hcg its self.

FINALLY, im starting to see some people who know what reasonable dosages are.

 

[gordo14]

My 2 cents.

Lets talk about the hcg for a second. Pardon me for my lack of expertise, however i don't like newb one post posers giving information.

Hcg should be used to wake the testicles up, and should be used during, and at the end of cycle. However hcg should not be used during pct. If you are using a synthetic compound to stimulate your LH levels, then your body still isn't doing that on its own.

Pct is to return the body to its normal function. By further suppressing your bodys actions using hcg after week 12 you will not be down the road of recovery any faster.

Use the hcg as you had previously stated. Use during, and up to your last shot. Then the test will slowly begin tapering off, since its a long ester, and at week 12 start your pct products. You have the right idea it looks like a nice cycle, with a good plan pct.

 

[Dubs]

Your cycle looks good to me for a beginner. But if I could make a suggestion it would be to hold of on the HCG and start taking it on week 12 . It would better that way when all the test is out of your system since its suppose to restart your testies. I would also keep the Nolva at 10 mgs a day , too much of Nova is counter productive. You want to use it to prevent estrogen side effects. Anything over 20 mgs will probobly act as an estrogen and defeat the purpose. Besides if you are taking Arimidex I doubt you need Nolva.. Anyway your asking for a critique so those are my thoughts. Enjoy your cycle and good luck. Peace..

Any reason you aren't running 400mg if the Test Cyp from day 1?

Also HCG is best utilized at the end of a cycle before PCT begins... I have always used it at the end of a cycle, and to bridge the gap into PCT. The idea for this it to bring the testicles back to their full size and operating ability as you begin PCT. I usually run it over a 2-3 week period.

If you are estrogen sensitive... HCG might cause you some issues. Make sure to have extra estro blockers/Anti-aromatase meds in hand. Lower doses more often is a preferred method in my eyes.

Run the test @ 400 mgs from week one to ten, as mentioned above

keep the adex as written

are you using the nolva as pct? if so, only use the 40 mgs/d for the first week, the next 3 weeks use only the 20/d.

dbol looks good. if its your first cycle you probably dont even need it, but its always good for a jump start.

as for hcg, id use it at 500 ius 2x/w for the last 2-4 weeks. you have it written as 4? correct? finishing up 1 week before pct starts, it looks all good. run the adex through with the hcg, as to keep away any estro sides from the hcg its self.

FINALLY, im starting to see some people who know what reasonable dosages are.

Lets talk about the hcg for a second. Pardon me for my lack of expertise, however i don't like newb one post posers giving information.

Hcg should be used to wake the testicles up, and should be used during, and at the end of cycle. However hcg should not be used during pct. If you are using a synthetic compound to stimulate your LH levels, then your body still isn't doing that on its own.

Pct is to return the body to its normal function. By further suppressing your bodys actions using hcg after week 12 you will not be down the road of recovery any faster.

Use the hcg as you had previously stated. Use during, and up to your last shot. Then the test will slowly begin tapering off, since its a long ester, and at week 12 start your pct products. You have the right idea it looks like a nice cycle, with a good plan pct.

thanks for all the responses guys. natabolic and especially gordo, thank you for the indepth info on hcg. I always thought that hcg should not be run into pct, but finishing around 1 week before pct starts, so its out of your system.

gordo, or anyone, does my pct START on the second week without the shot? or do i wait til its been 2 weeks WITHOUT a shot.. cause i was under the impression that it was 2 weeks without any test before pct.. meaning that if my last shot was on the 10th week, my pct would start beginning of the 13th week, which is 2 weeks of no shots, then start pct on the 3rd week.. hmm..

 

[Dubs]

ALSO

was the dose of the hcg good if used for the last 5 weeks?

EDIT: last 5 weeks referring to the last 4 weeks of the cycle, and one week after the cycle. this gives ONE week of no hcg, test, anything, before pct starts.

 

[gordo14]

You are correct. I'm glad to see someone has done there reasearch before asking questions.

Week 13 will be the first week of pct. And i run the hcg dose dependant on what i have. I always end up with the 2500 iu vials. So i would run 250 iu's twice a week for 5 weeks. That would be equal to 2500 iu's.

If it was me i would also just run the 400 per week. Thats just me though. You should always start with sane dosages, there is no place to go but up dosage wise.

 

[Dubs]

THANKS SO MUCH

You are correct. I'm glad to see someone has done there reasearch before asking questions.

Week 13 will be the first week of pct. And i run the hcg dose dependant on what i have. I always end up with the 2500 iu vials. So i would run 250 iu's twice a week for 5 weeks. That would be equal to 2500 iu's.

If it was me i would also just run the 400 per week. Thats just me though. You should always start with sane dosages, there is no place to go but up dosage wise.

Thanks man, youve been alot of help! I really appreciate it. and yes, i have done my research

 

[mrshoulders]

Hey guys, what do you think of this cycle?

Test C weeks 1-4 200 mgs/w, weeks 4-10 400 mgs/w
Dianabol weeks 1-4 20 mg/d
HCG weeks 6-11 500 IU 2x/w
Arimidex weeks 1-13 0.5 mg/d
Nolva weeks 13-14 40 mg/d, weeks 15-16 20 mg/d

I was also considering running HCG through the entire cycle, @ 250 iu 2x/w from week one, all the way to week 11. stopping one week after the cycle ends. then one week later (a total of 2 weeks after last shot of test), i start pct. I plan on the HCG from w 6-11 @ 500 IU 2x/w instead, i hate feeling like a human pin cushion LOL. Would it work just as well to run it at 500 2x/w the last month? would this bring the natural test production back enough to speed up recovery along with pct?

Any thoughts/critique/comments appreciated
thanks

I would increase my dosages on the test and dbol...I would run the test @ 600mgs per week and run the dbol @ 50mgs ed for the first 6 weeks...Drop the arimidex and run the hcg 2x a week @ 250 iu's per shot throughout the cycle dropping after the first week of PCT.....You could try something like tis also....
I advise my AAS clients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

 

[tatteredxangelx]

i would recommend only 200mg for a first cycle ... you will grow, save more money, and save the receptors ...

 

[Dubs]

I would increase my dosages on the test and dbol...I would run the test @ 600mgs per week and run the dbol @ 50mgs ed for the first 6 weeks...Drop the arimidex and run the hcg 2x a week @ 250 iu's per shot throughout the cycle dropping after the first week of PCT.....You could try something like tis also....
I advise my AAS clients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

ahh, swale. he is the one i got the idea for abot arimidex through the cycle, as well as hcg throughout the whole. Like i said, its just a pain in the ass to have to inject that many times per week (if i were to use hcg throughout), when i can start it 6 weeks into the cycle, have the testicles recover their function + size, so pct can normalize me again.

Do you really think id need 600 mgs/ w, plus 50 mgs dbol/d for my FIRST cycle?

i would recommend only 200mg for a first cycle ... you will grow, save more money, and save the receptors ...

Thanks for your input man.

 

[slimyy]

I agree with MrShoulders

You only get one first cycle make the most of it. You will grow like crazy and get strong as hell, I dont get any sides at those doasges,

 

[617ricky]

Do you really think id need 600 mgs/ w, plus 50 mgs dbol/d for my FIRST cycle?

Absolutely not.. Cutting those dosages in half would be perfectly fine.. My 1st cycle was only 200mg Test per wk, and I got some solid results.. People are saying you wanna get the most outta your 1st cycle - but you don't need much to do this.. Your virgin receptors will respond just fine to the smaller doses, so I don't think it's a good idea to do a big dose the 1st time around.. You wanna increase your doses a little for your 2nd cycle, but what are you gonna do for that, 1 gram a week? My 2nd cycle I did like 500mg/wk Test, and threw Deca and Dbol in.. I only did 30mg/day of Dbol, and I definitely got some affects off it.. I really felt the occasional aggression that steroids are portrayed about, and it also made me break out and get my nips a little puffy.. 50mg/day is just a little too much for a 1st cycle IMO.. So even tho alot won't agree with it - for a 1st cycle I say cut the dosage in half to 300mg Test and 25mg Dbol.. Plus at those dosages, an AI during the cycle probably won't even be necessary, and just keep it on hand - although it still wouldn't be a bad idea by any means to still take it..

 

[natabolic]

SOLID ADVICE

Absolutely not.. Cutting those dosages in half would be perfectly fine.. My 1st cycle was only 200mg Test per wk, and I got some solid results.. People are saying you wanna get the most outta your 1st cycle - but you don't need much to do this.. Your virgin receptors will respond just fine to the smaller doses, so I don't think it's a good idea to do a big dose the 1st time around.. You wanna increase your doses a little for your 2nd cycle, but what are you gonna do for that, 1 gram a week? My 2nd cycle I did like 500mg/wk Test, and threw Deca and Dbol in.. I only did 30mg/day of Dbol, and I definitely got some affects off it.. I really felt the occasional aggression that steroids are portrayed about, and it also made me break out and get my nips a little puffy.. 50mg/day is just a little too much for a 1st cycle IMO.. So even tho alot won't agree with it - for a 1st cycle I say cut the dosage in half to 300mg Test and 25mg Dbol.. Plus at those dosages, an AI during the cycle probably won't even be necessary, and just keep it on hand - although it still wouldn't be a bad idea by any means to still take it..

Bump this. Dub, you dont need 600 mg/w on your FIRST CYCLE. like ricky said, with your virgin receptors, you will grow like a weed off of even 200 mgs per week alone.. bump that up to 400, AT MOST, along with the 25 mg of dbol/d, and youll BLOW UP. You should get some ridiculous gains. Even with the ai, and adex doesnt usually, in my experiences with it, cause gains to slow.. it does just enough to prevent too much estrogen build up. Now, to each his own, but I'd go with what ricky and gordo say on this one. Like i said before:

400 mg/w test c w 1-10
25 mg dbol w 1-4
adex throughout, into your first week of pct at 0.5 mg/d. so weeks 1-13
HCG weeks 6-11 @250-500 IU 2x/w
Nolva @ 40 mg/d for the first week, and 20 mg/d for another 2 weeks, weeks 13-16

Good luck bud. Keep the diet HIGH in calories, HIGH in protein, Enough carbs for energy (moderate-moderately high), and use healthy fats to get more calories in. Drink olive oil by the bottle LOL. jk. but do use it in shakes, just not around workout times.

Good luck,
Eat, train, sleep.

 

[eroc613]

Lets talk about the hcg for a second. Pardon me for my lack of expertise, however i don't like newb one post posers giving information.

Hcg should be used to wake the testicles up, and should be used during, and at the end of cycle. However hcg should not be used during pct. If you are using a synthetic compound to stimulate your LH levels, then your body still isn't doing that on its own.

Pct is to return the body to its normal function. By further suppressing your bodys actions using hcg after week 12 you will not be down the road of recovery any faster.

Use the hcg as you had previously stated. Use during, and up to your last shot. Then the test will slowly begin tapering off, since its a long ester, and at week 12 start your pct products. You have the right idea it looks like a nice cycle, with a good plan pct.

I understand your theories, and agree that it's a good idea about your hcg usage. But both ways do work. Insulting another person's way of doing things is kinda like thinking you know everything, and your way is the only correct way. Trust me, I been told by best in bodybuilding to do hcg for PCT.
So even though I agree with your theories, it can be done effectively both ways.