Cycle Design to optimize IGF-1

[Thick500]

Hey all. Long time lurker, rare poster/commenter here looking for some experienced advice.

I've been dieting semi-hard for roughly 8 weeks. 5'10" 220lbs and 8-9%. Going to diet down for another 6-8 weeks to maybe 6% and then rebound blast for 12-16weeks maybe longer. Unless I'm not patient enough and I start this up in 2 weeks who knows.

I've been running generic gh for 2-3 years and currently at 6-8iu per day at night.

I want to optimize my cycle, diet, training etc for the best response to IGF during my growth phase. I've got 2 x 10vial kits of LR3 0.1mg per vial from pharmaqo and 3 kits of Serostim. My concern is IGF binding proteins being high from chronically elevated IGF for the past few years. So... was planning to give the GH a break at some point before I rebound blast to let those protein levels drop considerably but not sure how long that will take (2 weeks, 4 weeks, longer?). I assume there is no other way to achieve this.

Also, would I be shooting myself in the foot running the LR3 with the Serostim? I want to get the most out of both of these products obviously so considering 40 days of LR3 followed (50mcg per day) by 63 days of 6iu Serostim instead of together?

Low dose tren will be present throughout to sensitize IGF-1 receptors. Also Test, Primo, and anadrol for 4 weeks at some point maybe when initial rebound gains slow. I may use EQ if I can get estrogen where I want it (I usually use either primo or eq).

Something around 1g test, 600 primo, 75mg Tren E, and 50mg anadrol.

I also have humalog and Lantus to throw i there, Lantus being known to elevate IGF-1 by binding to the receptors and potentially upregulating IGF receptors. So Lantus everyday?? I have retatrutide to throw in low dose to keep insulin resistance at bay.

Anything else to unregulate IGF-1 receptors and lower the binding proteins?

Should I drop gear to cruise levels before I blast? Had planned to cruise after the rebound. Paul of Anabolic Bodybuilding had great success post show going straight into rebound blast with Lantus, gh, test, primo, and NPP. Thought I would do something similar.

Please offer thoughts, suggestions, any misconceptions or mistakes I have in planning this. I'm 41 with limited growth years ahead of me so have to get a bit nerdy with my setups to see gains, my days of just pin, eat, lift and forget about it to see progress are over for sure.

 

[KingOfSushi]

Just keep e2 in a good range for the gh. Not too high, not too low. Don’t overthink it.

As for the IGF, you’re injecting it exogenously. It’ll do it’s job.

 

[KillerStack]

I think calorie and protein intake will affect IGF-1 levels.

However, there seems to be a consensus here of "don't worry about IGF-1 levels." Tren can lower blood levels. Some say they don't see very much elevation with GH but it still "works."

Milk elevates IGF-1 to such a degree some worry about it causing cancer lol. The late Jerry Ward cautioned against milk products; I said that's a bit ridiculous and he blocked me on IG.

 

[fredmac82]

IGF-1 is converted in the Liver. I would recommend getting a full Liver panel bloodwork done to ensure your liver is in optimal condition.

As KingOfSushi stated your body needs estrogen to assit in the conversation of IGF-1 so keep your estrogen at least in a normal range or slighty above normal. Don't crash it.

I would drop the Tren if you are going to be monitoring your IGF-1 levels through bloodwork as Tren can cause those numbers to appear lower on your bloodwork even though the Tren is helping the IGF-1 work. But if IGF-1 numbers are what you want to see on your bloodwork drop the Tren.

If your taking injecting IGF exogenously then I would worry as much about taking Lantus unless you are taking it for another reason more related to your carb intake. But if you are adding it in only to help boost IGF i wouldn't worry about that. You are already taking GH and IGF-1 so not much else you need besides keep your Liver in good shape and your estrogen levels in balance.

 

[Thick500]

IGF-1 is converted in the Liver. I would recommend getting a full Liver panel bloodwork done to ensure your liver is in optimal condition.

As KingOfSushi stated your body needs estrogen to assit in the conversation of IGF-1 so keep your estrogen at least in a normal range or slighty above normal. Don't crash it.

I would drop the Tren if you are going to be monitoring your IGF-1 levels through bloodwork as Tren can cause those numbers to appear lower on your bloodwork even though the Tren is helping the IGF-1 work. But if IGF-1 numbers are what you want to see on your bloodwork drop the Tren.

If your taking injecting IGF exogenously then I would worry as much about taking Lantus unless you are taking it for another reason more related to your carb intake. But if you are adding it in only to help boost IGF i wouldn't worry about that. You are already taking GH and IGF-1 so not much else you need besides keep your Liver in good shape and your estrogen levels in balance.

My recent blood panel was great but I have since added 10mg var and plan to add 20mg winstrol the kast 2 weeks leading into a vacation. So another blood panel at end is definitely in order.

I would say the true goal here is to gain as much lean tissue as possible coming out of a diet phase when my body is primed to grow.

I want to make sure what I have at my disposal will be taken when my body is in the best environment for it to work. My genetics are really good at working against me here. I'm convinced if I go right into my growth phase without dropping the gh for a bit and allowing IGF-1 and all binding protein levels to drop that i won't get the most out of these products.

I'm also not at all concerned about systemic igf-1 levels on a blood test as that has no indication of intramuscular igf-1 levels being high and working (tren showing levels lower on bw as u mentioned). So the Tren will stay at a low dose to sensitize and unregulated the receptors.

What I am really unsure of is if I should run the LR3 solo or with Serostim (after a 3 week break from gh at end of my diet).

Dave Palumbo discusses how his best results with LR3 were ran solo but is unsure if that's because it was his 1st time or not having anything else in the mix to jack IGF levels way up, increasing the negative feedback of more binding proteins. I know he's not the end all be all on the subject, just something I came across when researching the topic.

I definitely will be the most insulin sensitive without gh in the picture, which is something to consider. 1 scenario is to run the LR3 for the 1st 40days with Lantus and then replace LR3 with DES and add the Serostim. This may be a good time to microdose retatrutide for insulin sensitivity.

This is probably the most $ I've spent on a blast cycle and really want to do this right and gain the most lean tissue as possible while staying healthy. I have Nebivolol, Telmisartan, and Ezetimibe and I plan to use them.

 

[madg]

Too much overcomplicate imo

Take your drugs , train hard and put the food in

But that just me

 

[bbxtreme]

My recent blood panel was great but I have since added 10mg var and plan to add 20mg winstrol the kast 2 weeks leading into a vacation. So another blood panel at end is definitely in order.

I would say the true goal here is to gain as much lean tissue as possible coming out of a diet phase when my body is primed to grow.

I want to make sure what I have at my disposal will be taken when my body is in the best environment for it to work. My genetics are really good at working against me here. I'm convinced if I go right into my growth phase without dropping the gh for a bit and allowing IGF-1 and all binding protein levels to drop that i won't get the most out of these products.

I'm also not at all concerned about systemic igf-1 levels on a blood test as that has no indication of intramuscular igf-1 levels being high and working (tren showing levels lower on bw as u mentioned). So the Tren will stay at a low dose to sensitize and unregulated the receptors.

What I am really unsure of is if I should run the LR3 solo or with Serostim (after a 3 week break from gh at end of my diet).

Dave Palumbo discusses how his best results with LR3 were ran solo but is unsure if that's because it was his 1st time or not having anything else in the mix to jack IGF levels way up, increasing the negative feedback of more binding proteins. I know he's not the end all be all on the subject, just something I came across when researching the topic.

I definitely will be the most insulin sensitive without gh in the picture, which is something to consider. 1 scenario is to run the LR3 for the 1st 40days with Lantus and then replace LR3 with DES and add the Serostim. This may be a good time to microdose retatrutide for insulin sensitivity.

This is probably the most $ I've spent on a blast cycle and really want to do this right and gain the most lean tissue as possible while staying healthy. I have Nebivolol, Telmisartan, and Ezetimibe and I plan to use them.

You are over analyzing the hell out of this IMO.

1) You need to give your body some sort of health phase and de-load after a hard cut and cycle.

2) Once you have done that push into a controlled rebound. Use the HGH with IGF LR3. Do not use tren.

3) Only use lantus once you carb intake requires it for the additional insulin needed to cover the carbs. This should not be immediately.

If you pull all the levers straight out the gate with no health phase you will have a low ceiling this progressive phase. My time aggressive patience really applies here.

 

[Thick500]

You are over analyzing the hell out of this IMO.

1) You need to give your body some sort of health phase and de-load after a hard cut and cycle.

2) Once you have done that push into a controlled rebound. Use the HGH with IGF LR3. Do not use tren.

3) Only use lantus once you carb intake requires it for the additional insulin needed to cover the carbs. This should not be immediately.

If you pull all the levers straight out the gate with no health phase you will have a low ceiling this progressive phase. My time aggressive patience really applies here.

Thanks. This is what I was worried about but Big Paul's experience (and results) with starting his rebound/push straight out of a show at age of 50 or 51 really had me wondering. I've always given my body a break between phases when alot of gear is used.

How long and what does your health and deload phase look like? Should this be more about health markers or androgen receptors getting a break? My health markers could be in range rather quickly.

 

[bbxtreme]

Thanks. This is what I was worried about but Big Paul's experience (and results) with starting his rebound/push straight out of a show at age of 50 or 51 really had me wondering. I've always given my body a break between phases when alot of gear is used.

How long and what does your health and deload phase look like? Should this be more about health markers or androgen receptors getting a break? My health markers could be in range rather quickly.

Both. I would give it at least 6 weeks and longer if bloods aren’t clean. Keep gear lower (doesn’t have to be TRT) and calories close to baseline. Then push out once you’ve taken that window. I would especially do this at your age.

 

[Sectør]

I don’t really understand the reccomendations to drop the tren honestly. Systemic IGF is much less important than localized IGF-1 in the muscle tissue.

The reason tren decreases systemic IGF is because it increases the localized IGF-1 in muscle.

So theoretically you take HGH and IGF1-LR3, then you have tren shuttle into the muscle for maximum benefit

The only reason you wouldn’t want the tren is if you’re simply trying to assess your systemic IGF response to hgh or IGF1-lr3 on bloodwork. In that case, yes drop the tren as it’ll show lower on bloodwork

But if you want maximum gains and efficiency, lower systemic IGF due to increased localized IGF (from tren) is the way

 

[kadafi2]

I don’t really understand the reccomendations to drop the tren honestly. Systemic IGF is much less important than localized IGF-1 in the muscle tissue.

The reason tren decreases systemic IGF is because it increases the localized IGF-1 in muscle.

So theoretically you take HGH and IGF1-LR3, then you have tren shuttle into the muscle for maximum benefit

Can you write something more, or someone else who knows something about this?

I always thought that tren causes increased LOCAL growth of igf1 directly in the muscle, and according to what you write, tren will "transport" igf1 from the blood to the muscles - it will support this process. How is that?

 

[Sectør]

 

[luki7788]

Hey all. Long time lurker, rare poster/commenter here looking for some experienced advice.

I've been dieting semi-hard for roughly 8 weeks. 5'10" 220lbs and 8-9%. Going to diet down for another 6-8 weeks to maybe 6% and then rebound blast for 12-16weeks maybe longer. Unless I'm not patient enough and I start this up in 2 weeks who knows.

I've been running generic gh for 2-3 years and currently at 6-8iu per day at night.

I want to optimize my cycle, diet, training etc for the best response to IGF during my growth phase. I've got 2 x 10vial kits of LR3 0.1mg per vial from pharmaqo and 3 kits of Serostim. My concern is IGF binding proteins being high from chronically elevated IGF for the past few years. So... was planning to give the GH a break at some point before I rebound blast to let those protein levels drop considerably but not sure how long that will take (2 weeks, 4 weeks, longer?). I assume there is no other way to achieve this.

Also, would I be shooting myself in the foot running the LR3 with the Serostim? I want to get the most out of both of these products obviously so considering 40 days of LR3 followed (50mcg per day) by 63 days of 6iu Serostim instead of together?

Low dose tren will be present throughout to sensitize IGF-1 receptors. Also Test, Primo, and anadrol for 4 weeks at some point maybe when initial rebound gains slow. I may use EQ if I can get estrogen where I want it (I usually use either primo or eq).

Something around 1g test, 600 primo, 75mg Tren E, and 50mg anadrol.

I also have humalog and Lantus to throw i there, Lantus being known to elevate IGF-1 by binding to the receptors and potentially upregulating IGF receptors. So Lantus everyday?? I have retatrutide to throw in low dose to keep insulin resistance at bay.

Anything else to unregulate IGF-1 receptors and lower the binding proteins?

Should I drop gear to cruise levels before I blast? Had planned to cruise after the rebound. Paul of Anabolic Bodybuilding had great success post show going straight into rebound blast with Lantus, gh, test, primo, and NPP. Thought I would do something similar.

Please offer thoughts, suggestions, any misconceptions or mistakes I have in planning this. I'm 41 with limited growth years ahead of me so have to get a bit nerdy with my setups to see gains, my days of just pin, eat, lift and forget about it to see progress are over for sure.

for me it's all so overcomplicated that you probably can't complicate the cycle any more

 

[Thick500]

I don’t really understand the reccomendations to drop the tren honestly. Systemic IGF is much less important than localized IGF-1 in the muscle tissue.

The reason tren decreases systemic IGF is because it increases the localized IGF-1 in muscle.

So theoretically you take HGH and IGF1-LR3, then you have tren shuttle into the muscle for maximum benefit

The only reason you wouldn’t want the tren is if you’re simply trying to assess your systemic IGF response to hgh or IGF1-lr3 on bloodwork. In that case, yes drop the tren as it’ll show lower on bloodwork

But if you want maximum gains and efficiency, lower systemic IGF due to increased localized IGF (from tren) is the way

Ok... this is great, I didn't think I was crazy with my thinking. My hope is low dose tren will benefit this cycle with use of Lr3 and GH but keeping the dose low will avoid the sides that can be detrimental to growth while also not impacting blood markers significantly. (50-75mg per week). I've done this previously in a cut because i hate trensomnia and I definitely benefited from the addition.

What is your thoughts on IGF binding proteins which increase as IGF-1 levels increase? IGF binding proteins generally decrease the effectiveness of IGF-1 by binding to IGF-1 and reducing the amount of free IGF-1 available to interact with its receptors. (Similar to relationship between Test and SHBG).

How can I manipulate these to my advantage prior to starting the IGF and/or Serostim? How can I manipulate these levels during my cycle for continuous effectiveness? Lr3 + 6iu Sero seems like a recipe to jack IGF levels up high (and binding proteins as well). Might a modest 50mcg LR3 only for 4-6 weeks be enough? Followed by 6iu serostim for 8 weeks? I think there may be some serious diminishing returns when combining them.

Hell.... I've gone from 4iu to 10iu + hgh over course of a year or so daily administration. The first several months gave me better results than the end. Might this be the reason behind eod gh producing better results than daily administration (same weekly iu count)? Binding protein levels not catching up with the swing in daily igf levels?? My body is great at negative feedback loops and working against me, as are most of us. I feel all these ideas are worthy of entertaining when designing a cycle.

 

[Sectør]

Ok... this is great, I didn't think I was crazy with my thinking. My hope is low dose tren will benefit this cycle with use of Lr3 and GH but keeping the dose low will avoid the sides that can be detrimental to growth while also not impacting blood markers significantly. (50-75mg per week). I've done this previously in a cut because i hate trensomnia and I definitely benefited from the addition.

What is your thoughts on IGF binding proteins which increase as IGF-1 levels increase? IGF binding proteins generally decrease the effectiveness of IGF-1 by binding to IGF-1 and reducing the amount of free IGF-1 available to interact with its receptors. (Similar to relationship between Test and SHBG).

How can I manipulate these to my advantage prior to starting the IGF and/or Serostim? How can I manipulate these levels during my cycle for continuous effectiveness? Lr3 + 6iu Sero seems like a recipe to jack IGF levels up high (and binding proteins as well). Might a modest 50mcg LR3 only for 4-6 weeks be enough? Followed by 6iu serostim for 8 weeks? I think there may be some serious diminishing returns when combining them.

Hell.... I've gone from 4iu to 10iu + hgh over course of a year or so daily administration. The first several months gave me better results than the end. Might this be the reason behind eod gh producing better results than daily administration (same weekly iu count)? Binding protein levels not catching up with the swing in daily igf levels?? My body is great at negative feedback loops and working against me, as are most of us. I feel all these ideas are worthy of entertaining when designing a cycle.

I wouldn’t overthink it too hard man, although I do appreciate the attention to detail. You already have everything you need

Just use the gear, eat big, and train like a maniac—and do this consistently

 

[Thick500]

for me it's all so overcomplicated that you probably can't complicate the cycle any more

Some of the best coaches out there are considering these things and drawing weekly bloods to monitor things we don't consider at all. Im a biomedical engineer by trade and I've definitely been known to overcomplicate things in the eyes of some people.

However, every single one of us are making mistakes in our diet, training, and cycle design that we will never know about and live in ignorant bliss. But... there is an exact combination of every single input that will maximize the output.

We know that a properly timed refeed can get the fat loss moving again, a training deload can improve gains, a cruise can make the blast more effective, and so on. This is related to so many enzymes, proteins, hormones, and receptors that unregulate/downregulate based on negative feedback loops to maintain homeostasis.

I just spent an ASSLOAD of $ on Primo, serostim, and IGF. I want to be certain I'm getting the most out of them is all lol! If there is a forum you know of with a more scientific approach to bodybuilding let me know, i know this is not a common topic and may not be the best place to get the feedback I'm looking for. I'm the type to read all of vigorous Steve's cited articles BTW. It is what it is, we are all different man

 

[bbxtreme]

I don’t really understand the reccomendations to drop the tren honestly. Systemic IGF is much less important than localized IGF-1 in the muscle tissue.

The reason tren decreases systemic IGF is because it increases the localized IGF-1 in muscle.

So theoretically you take HGH and IGF1-LR3, then you have tren shuttle into the muscle for maximum benefit

The only reason you wouldn’t want the tren is if you’re simply trying to assess your systemic IGF response to hgh or IGF1-lr3 on bloodwork. In that case, yes drop the tren as it’ll show lower on bloodwork

But if you want maximum gains and efficiency, lower systemic IGF due to increased localized IGF (from tren) is the way

So you think it’s healthy or sustainable to run tren year round and in a surplus progressive phase? Even in terms of adding true lean tissue one can get better results from other compounds. @homonunculus did a great video on this in past threads here.

I think what you’re meaning to say (could be wrong) is you don’t understand it in terms of IGF relevance. In that case there are endless threads on here where this has been discussed.

Overall in this case I believe we can see analysis paralysis is a very real thing.

 

[Sectør]

What is your thoughts on IGF binding proteins which increase as IGF-1 levels increase? IGF binding proteins generally decrease the effectiveness of IGF-1 by binding to IGF-1 and reducing the amount of free IGF-1 available to interact with its receptors. (Similar to relationship between Test and SHBG).

How can I manipulate these to my advantage prior to starting the IGF and/or Serostim?

I’m not a medical professional or a bio engineer, but you got me curious about IGF binding proteins, so I just looked up some ways to optimize it, via ChatGPT (lol)

To counter IGF binding proteins (IGFBPs) and increase the effectiveness of IGF-1, your goal is to increase free (bioactive) IGF-1 without disrupting the natural balance too aggressively. Here are some science-backed strategies:

---

1. Improve Insulin Sensitivity​

Why: Insulin suppresses IGFBP-1 production, thereby increasing free IGF-1.

• How to do it:
  • Supplements: berberine, inositol, chromium, alpha-lipoic acid
    

• Zinc and magnesium play roles in hormone balance, including IGF-1 pathways

---

3. Strategic Use of GH or GH Secretagogues​

Why: Growth Hormone (GH) stimulates IGF-1 production, but affects IGFBP-3 as well.

• GH therapy increases IGF-1 but also IGFBP-3—this can extend IGF-1 half-life but reduce free IGF-1

---

4. Time Nutrient Intake Around Workouts​

Why: Post-exercise insulin sensitivity increases, and insulin blunts IGFBP-1.

• Eat a protein- and carb-rich meal after training to spike insulin and reduce IGFBP-1 temporarily
• This may increase free IGF-1 when your body is primed for repair and growth

---

5. Consider IGF-1 Analogs or Delivery Methods (Advanced)​

Why: Some analogs of IGF-1 are engineered to resist IGFBP binding

• IGF-1 LR3: A long-acting form with lower affinity for IGFBPs, meaning more is free and active

---

6. Manage Inflammation and Stress​

Why: Chronic inflammation can raise certain IGFBPs (especially IGFBP-1 and -2)

• Anti-inflammatory diet (omega-3s, whole foods)
• Manage cortisol (stress hormone), which raises IGFBP-1

 

[Neuro1234]

I'm 41 with limited growth years ahead of me so have to get a bit nerdy with my setups to see gains, my days of just pin, eat, lift and forget about it to see progress are over for sure

I think it’s always as simply as pin, eat, and lift. I think you want to make it complicated because you’re older and think it has to be more complicated.

We are all different as you said to luki, but this is a textbook example of over complicating things.

 

[Sectør]

So you think it’s healthy or sustainable to run tren year round and in a surplus progressive phase? Even in terms of adding true lean tissue one can get better results from other compounds. @homonunculus did a great video on this in past threads here.

I think what you’re meaning to say (could be wrong) is you don’t understand it in terms of IGF relevance. In that case there are endless threads on here where this has been discussed.

Overall in this case I believe we can see analysis paralysis is a very real thing.

I never said tren was healthy nor that it should be run year round. You’re putting words in my mouth that I never said. We all know tren isn’t healthy

I was simply talking about trens impact on IGF