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Daily calories....

lucian

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Back in the day i used to try and get as many calories as possible. 5,000, 7,000, whatever. i really thought this is how you get huge! to get big you gotta eat big!

Fast forward 10 years. Im 35 years old, 263lb and i am not even trying to be this heavy. So the other day i decided to sit down and calculate how much i am eating. I had no idea. since last may i decided to listen to my body and not force anything. so i kept my contest foods in my diet and added more to them. same foods.

Bananas
apples
brown rice
oatmeal
gro0und turkey
ground beef
raisins
protein powder
and i added some non sweetened applesauce.

as i grew a little i added a little food here and there. nothing big, nothing drastic.

Ok so how may calories does it take to keep a 260+ frame....3200! Yup you read that right....only 3200 calories a day.

i read some of these guys eating 3000 or 4000 and they are about 200-220lb....but why is it i can maintain this body wt and my strength is even all the time?

Its because i eat mostly clean foods! 3200 al of clean foods is a lot of food each day. at least it is for me. I remember Dorian saying he grew on 3500 cal. thats cuz he ate all clean stuff and it works much better to build solid REAL muscle. most people dont eat the right foods in the right quantities to build lean mass and not add too much fat.


so it took me 10 years to finally listen to the older vets and eat like this. Maybe some young gun out there will read this and give it a try. Diet really is the key, its not the special secret drugs that actually dont even exist.


lucian
 

BALDNAZI

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Agreed...

Lucian I believe you are only partially correct. Dante and alot of other guys have mentioned the set point theory and I think that is also a contributing factor. Basically your body has gotten used to being a certain size and while you are eating alot less and clean as well, you would have to really screw up diet wise to lose your mass any further. And on the other hand I believe if you dieted down for a show you would also be able to hold onto alot of size because you have reached set point in muscular development.

I hovered around 300 for the past couple years and to be honest I really was not eating as much the past year yet I did not dip below 290. It took a hell of alot of eating to first get to 300 but once I got there and maintained it for awhile it became easier to hold on alot less food intake. Just my take on this, but I do agree if your eating quality you will retain quality. And it does not have to be an obscene amount of calories...
 

thatbloke

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Lucian I believe you are only partially correct. Dante and alot of other guys have mentioned the set point theory and I think that is also a contributing factor. Basically your body has gotten used to being a certain size and while you are eating alot less and clean as well, you would have to really screw up diet wise to lose your mass any further. And on the other hand I believe if you dieted down for a show you would also be able to hold onto alot of size because you have reached set point in muscular development.

I hovered around 300 for the past couple years and to be honest I really was not eating as much the past year yet I did not dip below 290. It took a hell of alot of eating to first get to 300 but once I got there and maintained it for awhile it became easier to hold on alot less food intake. Just my take on this, but I do agree if your eating quality you will retain quality. And it does not have to be an obscene amount of calories...


agree

it personly took me about 5000 calories to hit 220s, now i can maintain it with 3500-4000 cals

i personyl tried eating 3000 cals a day once n droped down to 210 pretty dam fast
 

isoc

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I have somewhat the same thing, I am much smaller, only about 200 pounds and not trying to necessarily gain weight, just make what I have better, but it is amazing how little food I eat and yet some people say they need 4000+ calories just to maintain. I also try to eat clean all the time, oats, rice, veggies, fruits, chicken, peanut butter (my cheat food) and protein powder,a nd rarely eat at restaurants. Shows you how much about this is individual andhow we need to pay attentino to how our bodies react to things. Honetly if I ate 4000 calories consistently I would be one fat, unhappy person. Also, age may play into it a little, as I am 38+ years old, it is easier to gain than lose weight now.
 

SAGE74

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Back in the day i used to try and get as many calories as possible. 5,000, 7,000, whatever. i really thought this is how you get huge! to get big you gotta eat big!

Fast forward 10 years. Im 35 years old, 263lb and i am not even trying to be this heavy. So the other day i decided to sit down and calculate how much i am eating. I had no idea. since last may i decided to listen to my body and not force anything. so i kept my contest foods in my diet and added more to them. same foods.

Bananas
apples
brown rice
oatmeal
gro0und turkey
ground beef
raisins
protein powder
and i added some non sweetened applesauce.

as i grew a little i added a little food here and there. nothing big, nothing drastic.

Ok so how may calories does it take to keep a 260+ frame....3200! Yup you read that right....only 3200 calories a day.

i read some of these guys eating 3000 or 4000 and they are about 200-220lb....but why is it i can maintain this body wt and my strength is even all the time?

Its because i eat mostly clean foods! 3200 al of clean foods is a lot of food each day. at least it is for me. I remember Dorian saying he grew on 3500 cal. thats cuz he ate all clean stuff and it works much better to build solid REAL muscle. most people dont eat the right foods in the right quantities to build lean mass and not add too much fat.


so it took me 10 years to finally listen to the older vets and eat like this. Maybe some young gun out there will read this and give it a try. Diet really is the key, its not the special secret drugs that actually dont even exist.


lucian

EAT CLEAN, LIVE CLEAN!
 

lucian

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Lucian I believe you are only partially correct. Dante and alot of other guys have mentioned the set point theory and I think that is also a contributing factor. Basically your body has gotten used to being a certain size and while you are eating alot less and clean as well, you would have to really screw up diet wise to lose your mass any further. And on the other hand I believe if you dieted down for a show you would also be able to hold onto alot of size because you have reached set point in muscular development.

I hovered around 300 for the past couple years and to be honest I really was not eating as much the past year yet I did not dip below 290. It took a hell of alot of eating to first get to 300 but once I got there and maintained it for awhile it became easier to hold on alot less food intake. Just my take on this, but I do agree if your eating quality you will retain quality. And it does not have to be an obscene amount of calories...

interesting, i have been 270lb before when i was younger but only for a few days till i went off everything and then dropped 30lb real fast.

i hit 260 in October and have been sitting there ever since. And also last year i stayed dieted down all year and then i stayed dieted down this year for a commercial i shot for Carmax. this is the first real off-season ive had in a while. I do feel like the amount of lean mass i carry now is due to the clean foods. Its not just a bodywt thing.

The muscle i now have in my back and legs which i was lacking is new muscle. so i dont think its a set point there. my body used to like to be about 230. with the improvements ive made im 260+ now. I dont think this could have happened without the foods ive been eating.
 

petedw

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I think that when Coleman made the massive change between 2 Olympia's (2002-2003 i think) he credited the change to removing junk from his diet and eating clean for the year
 

h8tr3d

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Metabolism has a part too. Im only 200lbs, and I could eat trash all day long w3g's of gear and not break 220.
 

lucian

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Metabolism has a part too. Im only 200lbs, and I could eat trash all day long w3g's of gear and not break 220.

I used to think the same thing. Eat all clean foods for 4 weeks. and i mean clean.

Get all of them in by 8pm and a gallon at the least of water every single day. see of you dont start to grow.

BigA, phil, Kiwi.....all these guys used to tell me not to eat garbage. Eat cleaner. We ised to have a guy 2powerful4u here and he had a good physique but didnt eat the right foods. always garbage. they kept telling him to cut out the crap and eat better. Its not about drugs. SO many times the vets here stressed diet. so many times many of us didnt listen and sought out some secret drug.

Secret is....food!
 

Ness

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Yup, 2500 calories leans me out fast without any strength lose provided all else (supplements) stay the same. I think once you get your foods cleaned up, you can further manipulate your food macro timing to grow instead of adding more calories. Youre body needs the right fuel at the right time and if you dial that in then you can get the results you want. You know, listen to your body, eat when hungry. Simple.
 

tkav1980

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Not to Blow up Phils spot here, but you really hit the nail on the head wiht how eating when hungry works. second part is the bigger you get the hungrier you are more often. It takes more food to fuel that exrta muscle. Clean foods are an amazing thing. The macro's per meal Phil had to put me on to simply stop eating every 1 to 1.5 hrs are some rather large numbers per meal coming from really clean foods.
 

animalsd

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Lucian, I see where you get your carbs and protein from, but in terms of fat, apart from ground beef and some from ground turkey, did you get any fats from other sources like flax, olive, coconut etc... or just mainly these foods were it?
 

Lenny

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Great post Lucian. But, I will tell you this, listen to your hunger, if it increases, it is doing so for a good reason...I always see increased hunger and increased lean muscle mass. If you choose the right amount of foods with a purpose to eat when you hunger bell goes off, then there will be a good chance you will be hungry again 1-3 hours later, give or take! Also, I am going to say this...never thought it played this big of role, but if you tell yourself it is time to train like a 210 bodybuilder, eat like one, and let all the other pieces work with that concepts...eating increases, it did for me this year. I am patient, so I take it 5lbs at a time, maybe one day I will be eating like a solid 220lb bodybuilder, so on...

Calories are calories, I do not complicate those as much anymore...eat what you need, feed the body, and it will say enough is enough! Then, maybe the next year enough is not enough, time to make an increase again...I hope I did not just confuse the shit out everyone! But, if I had to I could calculate calories off the top of my head because counting calories is a lot easier when you have your macro's lined up in a certain range per meal.

Not an expert, just learning to listen to my mind/belly instead of mindless eat. If you are training like a champ, recoverying, and keeping all other stuff progressively slightly...good chance you will be hungry often in some cases, not all!
 

lucian

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Lucian, I see where you get your carbs and protein from, but in terms of fat, apart from ground beef and some from ground turkey, did you get any fats from other sources like flax, olive, coconut etc... or just mainly these foods were it?

no, im eating beef 2 times a day sometimes more. that fat adds up quick. especially since its 80% not the super lean kind.

i do always take my fish oils unless i run out of them. so i get a lil more fat there,.
 

Michaelthomasj

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Back in the day i used to try and get as many calories as possible. 5,000, 7,000, whatever. i really thought this is how you get huge! to get big you gotta eat big!

Fast forward 10 years. Im 35 years old, 263lb and i am not even trying to be this heavy. So the other day i decided to sit down and calculate how much i am eating. I had no idea. since last may i decided to listen to my body and not force anything. so i kept my contest foods in my diet and added more to them. same foods.

Bananas
apples
brown rice
oatmeal
gro0und turkey
ground beef
raisins
protein powder
and i added some non sweetened applesauce.

as i grew a little i added a little food here and there. nothing big, nothing drastic.

Ok so how may calories does it take to keep a 260+ frame....3200! Yup you read that right....only 3200 calories a day.

i read some of these guys eating 3000 or 4000 and they are about 200-220lb....but why is it i can maintain this body wt and my strength is even all the time?

Its because i eat mostly clean foods! 3200 al of clean foods is a lot of food each day. at least it is for me. I remember Dorian saying he grew on 3500 cal. thats cuz he ate all clean stuff and it works much better to build solid REAL muscle. most people dont eat the right foods in the right quantities to build lean mass and not add too much fat.


so it took me 10 years to finally listen to the older vets and eat like this. Maybe some young gun out there will read this and give it a try. Diet really is the key, its not the special secret drugs that actually dont even exist.

lucian

Great post. You hit the nail on the head, but it is unfortunate because so many people will think that is bullshit. They are convinced it is a secret drug/cycle etc. I mean look at how many threads people start. "What is this guys cycle or that guys cycle" "If i only knew his cycle...I would be huge."
 

Lenny

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Great post. You hit the nail on the head, but it is unfortunate because so many people will think that is bullshit. They are convinced it is a secret drug/cycle etc. I mean look at how many threads people start. "What is this guys cycle or that guys cycle" "If i only knew his cycle...I would be huge."

Well, I do cycle pizza and snickers bars in there every once in awhile :D :eek: :eek:
 

msforr75

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I think people force feeding everyday is a huge waste. I continue to grow on a simple diet.

Mon-Sat - 3,000 calories (Mostly meat, protein powder and veggies). Only eat when hungry.

Sun - 6,000 calories (Mostly grains, fruit and protein powder). Force it down, but that's not hard when I'm craving the carbs.

Fluctuate between 255lbs lean Saturday night and 265lbs bloated Monday morning after my refeed.
 
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concreteguy

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When I was trying to grow muscle I peaked at 4000 calories/8 meals a day. I started lower but as I went along I just got hungry-er and hungry-er.

You could set a cake timer by them. The meals comprised of nothing more than:

whey and the full umbrella of amino's and creatine
oats
brown rice with olive oil on it
white potatoes/yams
rice cakes with peanut butter
Broccoli
chicken
stake

It got to if I missed a meal I would start getting dizzy. I think some how you can train your body to just keep using it. Kinda like shoveling coal into a steam engine.

Just my experience

CG
 
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cm

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Just curious if your activity has remained the same as it was 10 years ago? not training, as I am sure it is the same, or more intense, but your job and rec. activity. Did you move around alot more before or now, or is it a constant?
Just thinking, sometimes our jobs get more sedentary as he years go by. hard to come by older guys that get on roofs, and dig ditches!
-c
 

alfresco

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This a really good thread, thank you for starting it Lucian.

Can’t really add much that has not already been said by
those far more experienced than me.

My opinion; it really comes down to quality over quantity.
Just like in training, and just about anything else in life
you might care to mention. And what I have found really
interesting in all these posts is the difference in what it takes
to maintain verses to grow.

Personally, I think the disparity was far too great; does
not take that much more food, calories, supplements (OTC
or otherwise), above your maintenance level to make gains
up to your genetic potential.

Most overload their “system” with so much “stuff” that
there is nothing left of their “recovery ability” for muscular
growth, their body being so busy trying to assimilate everything
but the kitchen sink, it has just got to be thinking . . . “and you
want me to add how much muscle on top of doing all that
other stuff I'm doing for you?”

Perhaps adding muscle is the body’s first priority, I don’t know
and I don’t think anybody really does. I do think it is high on
the list, and may in fact be the first thing it attempts to do once
given adequate stimulus, but may not fully complete the task
if it’s busy with other “things”. (I have seen, as I’m sure we all
have, people produce spectacular gains in spite of a diet that
would be considered not inadequate by most bodybuilders.)

Optimally, in a perfect world, just a bit above your maintenance
level and you are off and running is my opinion. And if successful,
you become a moving target, and that is where people get into
trouble because when you grow, you grow fast and it’s tough to
keep track of things, they overshoot or undershoot it, end up
not gaining as fast as that should (but still gain), or just getting
fat, and mistaking fat for muscle. It’s a fine line as we all know.

Funny thing is . . . I made my best gains in lean muscle by
paying very little attention to my diet. Gains that astounded
most people (myself included) could have in retrospect, come
been much greater in terms of size, but not in speed. I believe
if I paid more attention my diet in general; macros and timing
mostly, they could have been better. There is a window of
opportunity, and I crawled half way through it.

All of which reminds me of the current thread that talks about
the steroid dosages it takes to maintain your size as opposed to
promoting growth, I think many came to the same conclusion;
it does not take that much, and for that I suspect they are very
thankful. I would like to think that proves something and that is
. . . drugs or calories . . . if you do it smart, if you do it right, it
does not take that much. Clearly there is dose / response
relationship (food included). Problem is when do you really know
when you are pissing it all down the sink? I suppose that is the
million dollar question . . . when to say when, when enough is
enough? When you quit growing or when you can’t pay your bills?

Am probably over simplifying things, never having been seriously
considered a bodybuilder, never having been on stage, and knowing
next to nothing about contest prep.

I know I’m rambling but these are just a few of my thoughts that
have been rolling around my brain like a BB in a boxcar . .
 
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