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damage, 19-nor vs. orals

tonyperkis

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What will damage the body more, specifically blood vessels and heart:
12 weeks of a 19-nor at 300-500mg/week
6 weeks of a 17aa oral at a moderate dose (dbol, adrol, designer steroid)
 
I'd rather do 12 weeks of tren @ 100mg eod than 6 weeks of superdrol @30mg.

I know there are a few big boys around here that can easily put that sd cycle to shame and be fine. But for others, like myself, my body would be hurtin big time after the 3rd week.

I think for the general pop of users, the tren scenario would do less damages.
 
on oral based cycles i usually feel shitty after 6 to 8 weeks (ive only used tbol and anavar though with some dbol here and there). lethargy kicks in and i dont really feel healthy anymore. also had nosebleeds from var (which i never had before).

then again ive been on tren between 200 and 800mgs a week for the last 6 months with only 2 short breaks of 2 weeks and i feel perfectly healthy, no BP issues whatsoever as long as i keep the test low. i actually feel healthier on tren and it gives me an overall feeling of well being that no other AAS give.
 
thanks for the feedback, gents. i definitely feel like crap on some orals esp. SD. just afraid of the asymptomatic damage done to the heart by tren and deca. i think the general consensus is that no injectable is worse than 17aa orals as far as impact to lipids.
 
Orals are usually the worst for your health
 
What will damage the body more, specifically blood vessels and heart:
12 weeks of a 19-nor at 300-500mg/week
6 weeks of a 17aa oral at a moderate dose (dbol, adrol, designer steroid)

This is a question best posed to Dr G - he would give you an informed opinion.
 
This is a question best posed to Dr G - he would give you an informed opinion.

He's answered it already. He stated many times he never recommends orals to anyone and thinks people shouldn't use them if concerned for their health.
 
for whats it worth... yes orals are toxic to liver and depending on dosages will have your values sky high while also crushing your lipids but with proper supps like milk thistle, garlic, fish oils, coQ10, you can minimize the damage done... and after enough off time the liver it self is renown to repair itself more so than any other major organ... but... when your speaking of heart issues... those arent so much reversible especially if your speaking of the whole left ventricle enlargement ordeal... orals used at lowest effective dose can have minimal effects.. studies of drols used for 20wks to 6mo at 50mg/day had minimal impact yet you dbl or triple then your values/levels increase drastically per dose for the time.... of course to later recover... also... studies done with var at 20/day there wasnt any noticeable effects on lipids until arond the 3mo mark, it was only discontinued at that point as a precautionary measure....
 
Last edited:
Good topic. On a blood test, orals will look way worse. However, most everything on a standard blood test will fully recover. But what doesn't show up is artery stress and heart enlargement which nandralones are notorious for. I have never heard of a guy having heart issues from dbol and test usage even for years, but with deca and especially tren it's a different story. But over 12 weeks NOTHING will do permanent damage unless you have a pre existing condition.
 
This thread is kinda making me sorry I just ordered some Dbol. But for some reason orals and injectables work so much better than injectables alone at a higher dosage.
 
This thread is kinda making me sorry I just ordered some Dbol. But for some reason orals and injectables work so much better than injectables alone at a higher dosage.

Run it @ 25mg for 4 weeks. Good enough dose you'll see an increase in strength and size, but not enough to make it too hard to recover from
 
This thread is kinda making me sorry I just ordered some Dbol. But for some reason orals and injectables work so much better than injectables alone at a higher dosage.

i feel you, the pump in the gym, all day muscle fullness, and vascularity that orals provide can't be beat. but i have yet to finish running dbol, var, you name it and then still maintain those qualities, or even the muscle gained from the oral cycle.
 
Good topic. On a blood test, orals will look way worse. However, most everything on a standard blood test will fully recover. But what doesn't show up is artery stress and heart enlargement which nandralones are notorious for. I have never heard of a guy having heart issues from dbol and test usage even for years, but with deca and especially tren it's a different story. But over 12 weeks NOTHING will do permanent damage unless you have a pre existing condition.

Very good point. Just wish there was some test or measure to show arterial stress so I can say 'okay, it's been 6 weeks since the deca cleared, looks like I'm good to blast again for 12 more weeks.' Really miss the feeling of well being and joints being able to handle any load with ease :headbang:
 
Good point. besides tren and deca there are only EQ to add to your test thou. Can't think of any other anabolics.
 
Good point. besides tren and deca there are only EQ to add to your test thou. Can't think of any other anabolics.

there's always mast and primo, although isn't primo just an analogue of test? but neither of those give gains like 19-nors
 
well you figure dbol and primo was one of the couple famous cocktails of the 60's that fueled many guys to greatness.. and primo is actually a dht derivative but again just look back on the 60s and 70s...

also dbol for preWO 25mg will do you WONDERS after only about a wk or so... hell I had unrelated labs done after running dbol preWO only for a couple months at least and dr noticed one of my liver values was just a tad out of range... he was more surprised at the oddness to have minimal amount of spike to push just tad out of normal range than alarmed at possibilty of it being bad.. def get some liv supps and maybe only use it preWO 75% of time and i'd bet you'll have no issues only perks....
 
I had bloodwork done when I was taking only 25mg dianabol and a couple hundred mgs test and had my HDL in the single digits. I removed the orals and continued the test with the addition of deca ... rechecked in 5 wks and the HDL(good cholesterol) more than tripled. I think even low dose orals are much harder on lipid levels than injectables and should only be used for short bursts if people are concerned with heart health.
 
Does it matter if it lowers your HDL for a short amount a time, is any damage done or is it just bad if it was constant. Mine was in the single digits or low double digits During Var.

Man of steal, did you mean take the liver protectant post work out? I take it all the time usually before bed, TNs milk thistle.

Gonna Run dbol at 25 mg with arimidex to keep All bloat down. I am on test and just dropped EQ to see if my sex drive Increased while off of it. Plus I was in the EQ and didn't notice much and wanted to give my RBCs a rest. Still have almost 20 MLs.

I think I am gonna get son primo raws soon from RDP. Does primo short acting Hurt? I would get primo E but you have too shoot just as much since the concentration has to be so low.
Maybe I Will So the Primo E any way. Thanks.
 

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