Dave SOUNDS OFF On Insulin

[jayl19]

I'm sure he said you stop blasting gh an slin when your fasted glucose hits 110, could be wrong, I can't find the video

Trevor from enhanced athlete also said the same about gh/slin blast then switch to lr3

 

[Airhonn]

I think Dave is just sick of people thinking they can take insulin to get big. Honestly that isn't the case, why do you need insulin if you can put on more muscle without it? The whole point of insulin was that if offsets the gh desensitization to insulin. I do get a good amount of guys asking me about insulin in the gym lately , and I feel the case is that they can get it legally and it's cheap. People don't want to accept that bodybuilding IS NOT A CHEAP OR AFFORDABLE lifestyle, and hell insulin happens to have the ability to kill you if dosed wrong.

I never used doses above 4 units even under his coaching. And I looked like a hardon in the gym every single time.

I think I did watch a video where Trevor from EA talks about an igf tail, which I hope you guys are paying the dude for giving away his protocols haha.

 

[RamboStallone]

Don't listen to Dave?...his talk missed a ton of basics but the info seemed good to me but like anything fill in the blanks that apply to you..I spent a lot of time with milos back in the day and he had similar protocol..mister know it all Dave does know a bit about this crap

No, I wouldn't take any of his advice. I've seen his protocols first hand. He's always flip flopping on subjects cuz quite honestly it doesn't seem he understands the mechanism of how things work sometimes. There is no one size fit all protocol. Depending on what you are using, goals, etc, things can be moved around. He doesn't even have proof of half the bro science he spouts off. He just states them as facts and people listen, sorry I'm not a sheep I question everything. I want to know exactly how things work so I can apply them for myself where they fit.

Where's proof of this igf down regulation or desensitization he constantly speaks of? There is NO such thing! I challenge someone to provide proof of this.

 

[RamboStallone]

Lr3 has the ability to directly attach to receptors without a binding protein, therefore the binding proteins are not able to control it's activities. Second, lr3 has the ability, although lower binding affinity, to attach to the insulin receptor. He constantly claims that lr3 negatively effects the receptors, why and how does this happen?

 

[RamboStallone]

I'm sure he said you stop blasting gh an slin when your fasted glucose hits 110, could be wrong, I can't find the video

Trevor from enhanced athlete also said the same about gh/slin blast then switch to lr3

Fasted glucose of 110 is pre-diabetic, that is silly advice in my opinion.

 

[RamboStallone]

What he's saying is backwards. GH reduces insulin sensitivity so taking more insulin is better...wtf is he talking about, if your slin resistant that means insulin doesn't WORK. This is basic information that he has wrong. Like I stated earlier, insulin is much more beneficial when you are insulin sensitivity because then it can ACTUALLY do its JOB. When your slin resistance adding more slin will end up causing more slin resistance, then you'll need more and more slin. This is basically what happens to type 2 diabetics. He's even further off base then I initially thought!

Here, this explains what insulin actually does.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221930616_Insulin_effects_in_muscle_and_adipose_tissue

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I personally felt it was the most overrated ergo aid ever used. I think it works awesome for people who dont have the appetite to gain size...thats who ive seen it work best for. I didnt have that problem...I could always forcefeed myself to gain size. I used it during the 10 grams of carbs per IU period in the early 2000's (humalog/humalin R)....I personally felt the downsides to it by tenfold ruined the upside of it. The downside was abdominal distention like no other...so much so it ruined my abdominal wall....and I ended up with the turtle shell look with slight tears/linea alba totally gone...a diastasis recti situation. For people who cannot eat their way up in size, it feels like a gamechanger for them, ......but I would rather have kept my abdominal wall....and I regret ever using it (especially the method everyone was using/trying back then)...full as hell, incredible pumps, but distention like no tommorow

 

[RamboStallone]

I personally felt it was the most overrated ergo aid ever used. I think it works awesome for people who dont have the appetite to gain size...thats who ive seen it work best for. I didnt have that problem...I could always forcefeed myself to gain size. I used it during the 10 grams of carbs per IU period in the early 2000's (humalog/humalin R)....I personally felt the downsides to it by tenfold ruined the upside of it. The downside was abdominal distention like no other...so much so it ruined my abdominal wall....and I ended up with the turtle shell look with slight tears/linea alba totally gone...a diastasis recti situation. For people who cannot eat their way up in size, it feels like a gamechanger for them, ......but I would rather have kept my abdominal wall....and I regret ever using it (especially the method everyone was using/trying back then)...

DC, I had the poked out turtle shell before slin use. It's from slin resistance. Type 2 runs in my genes, so carb abuse would do it too. The guys with less appetite are probably more slin sensitive by nature.

That's why I keep saying slin is better used when your sensitive and it can properly work. Sounds like you may have accumulated visceral fat from the resistance which is typical when in that state. Interesting I've been reading studies that show var targets VAT. Have you been able to reduce it since?

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

DC, I had the poked out turtle shell before slin use. It's from slin resistance. Type 2 runs in my genes, so carb abuse would do it too. The guys with less appetite are probably more slin sensitive by nature.

That's why I keep saying slin is better used when your sensitive and it can properly work. Sounds like you may have accumulated visceral fat from the resistance which is typical when in that state. Interesting I've been reading studies that show var targets VAT. Have you been able to reduce it since?

It has gone down but the damage is done. It ruined my front abdominal look totally...my abdominal wall doesnt look anything like it did previous to insulin use...I had a defined linea alba down the middle...thats totally gone....and there are tears that have produced a turtle shell look like so many other bodybuilders have gotten who have used slin. I have no doubts that on people who are 150 to 225 it probably seems like the holy grail to them as they probably think "Finally! I can put on the size i need!"....but the big over 250lb superheavyweights IMO virtually always end up with a ruined abdominal wall as Palumbo and a great many superheavies from the late 90's early 2000's did....Its hard to hold up that kind of muscle mass over the core anyway when you are 250 to 310lbs and there is distension from just that...but add insulin to the mix, it can get pretty brutal. I do believe the methodology of everyone using it back then was incorrect....lower dosages should have been used with and especially food intolerances carbwise needed to be accounted for....I think a little bit could go a long way with slin....and everyone was following Milos's basic gameplan on it......and that gameplan probably shouldnt have been so universal.....Milos didnt seem to get the distension so many other guys did..... this look really wasnt there previous to slin use

**broken link removed**

 

[RamboStallone]

Idk what protocols you guys were using back then since I was probably still in diapers lol. Those pics look like how a type 2 diabetic would look, with insulin resistance the VAT packs on and the extremities began to get less nutrients....Basically that's how these guys end up with the so-called "Palumboism" in my opinion, large midsection with small arms and legs (from lack of nutrient getting there). It makes perfect sense to me that this is caused by insulin resistance mostly from GH and then the VAT accumulation and further loss of sensitivity from slin abuse. Milos probably had great insulin sensitivity genetically so it worked wonders for him.

I keep my slin use limited to preworkout. I use it with gh peps. The idea is to get them to pulse over the workout window to shuttle nutrition, the obvious part, but furthermore to increase MGF/IGF in the body during training and create a very anabolic environment.

Real simple 5iu log and 100mcgs of ghrp2 with a homemade shake to cover protein and carb needs. I'm using metformin as well in the AM, then again after my postworkout meal. Stacked like this it seems I am avoiding the negatives and reaping the positives. Up until this week I was on small doses of 30mg prop and 30mg tren ace daily and was getting stronger and putting on mass.

All in all, every PED has its purpose if used properly.

 

[RamboStallone]

Idk what protocols you guys were using back then since I was probably still in diapers lol. Those pics look like how a type 2 diabetic would look, with insulin resistance the VAT packs on and the extremities began to get less nutrients....Basically that's how these guys end up with the so-called "Palumboism" in my opinion, large midsection with small arms and legs (from lack of nutrient getting there). It makes perfect sense to me that this is caused by insulin resistance mostly from GH and then the VAT accumulation and further loss of sensitivity from slin abuse. Milos probably had great insulin sensitivity genetically so it worked wonders for him.

I keep my slin use limited to preworkout. I use it with gh peps. The idea is to get them to pulse over the workout window to shuttle nutrition, the obvious part, but furthermore to increase MGF/IGF in the body during training and create a very anabolic environment.

Real simple 5iu log and 100mcgs of ghrp2 with a homemade shake to cover protein and carb needs. I'm using metformin as well in the AM, then again after my postworkout meal. Stacked like this it seems I am avoiding the negatives and reaping the positives. Up until this week I was on small doses of 30mg prop and 30mg tren ace daily and was getting stronger and putting on mass.

All in all, every PED has its purpose if used properly.

FWIW I just had bloodwork done yesterday, so will see where my fasted glucose is since using this combo. I'll be sure to report back. I really think slin can be used properly. I understand Dave's frustration, but the idiots he speaks of will be idiots regardless whether it be slin, gh, or AAS.

 

[Stewie]

FWIW I just had bloodwork done yesterday, so will see where my fasted glucose is since using this combo. I'll be sure to report back. I really think slin can be used properly. I understand Dave's frustration, but the idiots he speaks of will be idiots regardless whether it be slin, gh, or AAS.

You're on Metformin as well, no?

 

[RamboStallone]

You're on Metformin as well, no?

Yes sir. I'm taking 500mg of Glucophage SR in the AM upon waking before my breakfast shake. Then in the evening after dinner (postworkout meal on training days).

 

[Smack]

It has gone down but the damage is done. It ruined my front abdominal look totally...my abdominal wall doesnt look anything like it did previous to insulin use...I had a defined linea alba down the middle...thats totally gone....and there are tears that have produced a turtle shell look like so many other bodybuilders have gotten who have used slin. I have no doubts that on people who are 150 to 225 it probably seems like the holy grail to them as they probably think "Finally! I can put on the size i need!"....but the big over 250lb superheavyweights IMO virtually always end up with a ruined abdominal wall as Palumbo and a great many superheavies from the late 90's early 2000's did....Its hard to hold up that kind of muscle mass over the core anyway when you are 250 to 310lbs and there is distension from just that...but add insulin to the mix, it can get pretty brutal. I do believe the methodology of everyone using it back then was incorrect....lower dosages should have been used with and especially food intolerances carbwise needed to be accounted for....I think a little bit could go a long way with slin....and everyone was following Milos's basic gameplan on it......and that gameplan probably shouldnt have been so universal.....Milos didnt seem to get the distension so many other guys did..... this look really wasnt there previous to slin use

**broken link removed**

So you think guys around the 200 lb mark would probably be able to take something like 5iu or less just preworkout without risking the distention?

Im curious how Dorian got rid of his...

 

[NGL34]

It has gone down but the damage is done. It ruined my front abdominal look totally...my abdominal wall doesnt look anything like it did previous to insulin use...I had a defined linea alba down the middle...thats totally gone....and there are tears that have produced a turtle shell look like so many other bodybuilders have gotten who have used slin. I have no doubts that on people who are 150 to 225 it probably seems like the holy grail to them as they probably think "Finally! I can put on the size i need!"....but the big over 250lb superheavyweights IMO virtually always end up with a ruined abdominal wall as Palumbo and a great many superheavies from the late 90's early 2000's did....Its hard to hold up that kind of muscle mass over the core anyway when you are 250 to 310lbs and there is distension from just that...but add insulin to the mix, it can get pretty brutal. I do believe the methodology of everyone using it back then was incorrect....lower dosages should have been used with and especially food intolerances carbwise needed to be accounted for....I think a little bit could go a long way with slin....and everyone was following Milos's basic gameplan on it......and that gameplan probably shouldnt have been so universal.....Milos didnt seem to get the distension so many other guys did..... this look really wasnt there previous to slin use

**broken link removed**

very interesting..
you mentioned linea alba changes. Ronnie coleman is a good example of this. As he was first starting off in his career his looked normal, but as the years progressed you could see more and more separation of the linea alba.

 

[Mike Arnold]

I think Dave is just sick of people thinking they can take insulin to get big. Honestly that isn't the case, why do you need insulin if you can put on more muscle without it? The whole point of insulin was that if offsets the gh desensitization to insulin. I do get a good amount of guys asking me about insulin in the gym lately , and I feel the case is that they can get it legally and it's cheap. People don't want to accept that bodybuilding IS NOT A CHEAP OR AFFORDABLE lifestyle, and hell insulin happens to have the ability to kill you if dosed wrong.

I never used doses above 4 units even under his coaching. And I looked like a hardon in the gym every single time.

I think I did watch a video where Trevor from EA talks about an igf tail, which I hope you guys are paying the dude for giving away his protocols haha.

Actually, that is the old-school way of thinking...and it was completely wrong. Unfortunately, there are some guys that still peddle this crap. I am not referring to you...because you likely just don't know, but there are guys who should know better and don't.

Using insulin to combat GH-induced insulin resistance is completely counterproductive and just makes the problem worse. Yes, it will help solve the surface problem of elevated blood glucose levels, but it ultimately makes the underlying problem (insulin resistance) even worse, as both insulin and GH contribute to insulin resistance through various mechanisms.

These days, the smart guys take steps to maintain insulin sensitivity and keep the potential underlying problem at bay, rather than using a cover-up solution that just exacerbates the core issue.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

very interesting..
you mentioned linea alba changes. Ronnie coleman is a good example of this. As he was first starting off in his career his looked normal, but as the years progressed you could see more and more separation of the linea alba.

Pics early ronnie vs later ronnie.

Chad loved to do this 1-2 day a week massive dextrose loading with insulin in the offseason with his guys

 

[alfresco]

question

Pics early ronnie vs later ronnie.

Chad loved to do this 1-2 day a week massive dextrose loading with insulin in the offseason with his guys

Hey DC,

In my opinion, he looked far better when he was younger. Probably not an original observation

Kinda like Branch. He looked really good early in his career, and then things went downhill.

What is your opinion on what is largely responsible for these terrible ‘transformations?’

Thanks.

 

[JETHRO TULL]

So.......what about just using IGF-1?

Would I get any real benefits from 250 mgs of test enanthate and 100 mgs of tren enanthate or equipoise per week with IGF-1 if I decided to try it?

My real question is regarding the igf-1.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Hey DC,

In my opinion, he looked far better when he was younger. Probably not an original observation

Kinda like Branch. He looked really good early in his career, and then things went downhill.

What is your opinion on what is largely responsible for these terrible ‘transformations?’

Thanks.

a) insulin usage
b) the natural aging process (I dont know of anyone ever who has a smaller waist at 45 than their 22 year old self
c) Very hard to have a wasp like waist when you carry over 250lbs of muscle mass
d) I dont personally believe its viscerial fat, I do believe its a combination of organ growth and (e)
e) A damaged transverse abdominis which is pretty much the natural spring that keeps the abdominal wall inward<-----this right here with the combo of insulin distention+food intake, large size, aging, organ growth from insulin usage I believe is the main problem....it gets pushed outwards and outwards until it becomes a slinky that has been stretched too far for too long.....

Is there a solution? Yea vacuums done virtually daily would help an incredible amount...along with the above reasons for the extreme distension in the first place.

Thats my theory anyway. Think of the pro bodybuilders in the past who could do awesome vacuums....tony pearson, brian buchanon, chris cormier, Lee Haney, Shawn Ray, even Jason Huh a little bit......virtually none of them have distended guts...

Just my theory on it...I could be right i could be wrong