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Dbol or Winny: Least liver Toxic?

Ehren

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Which is less liver toxic at the same dose? Or are they the same?

Anyone had blood tests after say 50mg of Winny vs. 50mg Dbol for 4-6 weeks.

Having tried Dbol several times over the years, I just don't like it. Too much E2 conversion, appetite loss, lethargy and only moderate gains. Winny makes me feel better, stronger and yes, better mass gains at the same dose.

Chime in on feelings, anecdotes or data you may have!
 

strongrhino

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Winnie V (water)(INJ) least by far- my favorite. For orals my opinion mg per mg they be toss up.
 

wardog50

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Both being methylated and both taken orally (this can be an exception) are milligram for milligram the same toxicity on the liver as its counterpart.
The methyl group added has no added or lessened value due to the hormone its attached to, despite the common mis information on this topic.

In easy to read terms "they are equal".

War
 

TIMMO

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i have used 20 mg of d bol a day and found this an effective dose without raising liver enzyme levels and gammaGT

however 50mg of winstrol a day was an effective dose, it raised liver enzyme levels alot and trashed my ldl , hdl ratio
 

Johnny Smiles

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Newman

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Which is less liver toxic at the same dose? Or are they the same?

Anyone had blood tests after say 50mg of Winny vs. 50mg Dbol for 4-6 weeks.

Having tried Dbol several times over the years, I just don't like it. Too much E2 conversion, appetite loss, lethargy and only moderate gains. Winny makes me feel better, stronger and yes, better mass gains at the same dose.

Chime in on feelings, anecdotes or data you may have!



Honestly bro, I get the impression that you had bunk D-bol. I also think your winny was actually real D-bol.

I'm not calling you a liar, I'm only saying what I think based on what you said.

D-bol raises my appetite like crazy and winny isn't generally known to be a mass builder(relatively speaking). Winny is often used by power lifters & sprinters for gaining strength without adding unnecessary mass. For performance sports power-to-weight ratio is more important than mass.
 

TNT

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Kinda off topic a bit but, how liver toxic is the injectable winny compared to oral?
 

Ehren

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Honestly bro, I get the impression that you had bunk D-bol. I also think your winny was actually real D-bol.

I'm not calling you a liar, I'm only saying what I think based on what you said.

D-bol raises my appetite like crazy and winny isn't generally known to be a mass builder(relatively speaking). Winny is often used by power lifters & sprinters for gaining strength without adding unnecessary mass. For performance sports power-to-weight ratio is more important than mass.

Thanks for the input Guys.
Newman, no worries, Bro. I did have bad Dbol once long ago, but never since then.

Now, I'm not saying Dbol doesn't work, it sure does. Just that the sides suck. It does add "weight", but take away the bloat and it's not treating me that great as far as real mass gained.

For some reason, DHT's just agree with me. I respond really well to them, always the same with each brand of Winnie and even Anadrol (another DHT derived AAS, excellent for me). With Dbol, always more bloat, ok strength and decent mass gains. I think the Winnie allows me to lift heavier, and so, gain more lean mass. And I harden up quickly on it. Just don't want to kill my liver in the process of enjoying my lifestyle.;)

Mountaindog and Johnny Smiles...thanks for looking in! Please give your thoughts!
 

aqrojase

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I am not too sure about the liver enzymes from both..i would expect them to be the same. But what i do know is that....orals really mess with my cardiovascular. 30mg of good dbol (METANABOL) goes long way. If i go up to 50mg i feel slow and breathless. Only with orals.
 

strongrhino

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Kinda off topic a bit but, how liver toxic is the injectable winny compared to oral?

Inject water based winny (Zambon for example) is one of the cleanest least toxic compounds out there- if not THE CLEANEST. Only downfall is the frequent dosing. When I was competing in powerlifting I did 50mg eod which seemed like a lot of pinning then but now I pin GH 2x/day plus 500mg of one tes or another a week. Plus the winnie burns. Zambon was my favorite drug of all time. Its expensive and hard to get but some of our great sponsors carry it. Its clean clean clean! No water retention great increase strength and vascularity. I personally would never touch oral winnie. Even if given to me.
 

infinity1

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Inject water based winny (Zambon for example) is one of the cleanest least toxic compounds out there- if not THE CLEANEST. Only downfall is the frequent dosing. When I was competing in powerlifting I did 50mg eod which seemed like a lot of pinning then but now I pin GH 2x/day plus 500mg of one tes or another a week. Plus the winnie burns. Zambon was my favorite drug of all time. Its expensive and hard to get but some of our great sponsors carry it. Its clean clean clean! No water retention great increase strength and vascularity. I personally would never touch oral winnie. Even if given to me.

Injectable winny is not one of the the "cleanest and least toxic drugs out there". Winstrol can simultaneously lower your good cholesterol and raise your bad cholesterol, it has also been linked to cardaic hypertrophy and it is an 17aa steroid and is notoriously toxic to your liver.
 

strongrhino

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Injectable winny is not one of the the "cleanest and least toxic drugs out there". Winstrol can simultaneously lower your good cholesterol and raise your bad cholesterol, it has also been linked to cardaic hypertrophy and it is an 17aa steroid and is notoriously toxic to your liver.
Really? Name a cleaner one. You are basically listing the negatives of all aas. And I, not so sure about the 17AA part but I may stand corrected there- may I say. So what is cleaner than water based winnie mg per mg- correct answer: Nothing. Do your research and prove me wrong. And BTW what is cardaic hypertrophy? It is Cardiac Hypertrophy- linked to all steroids. And good cholesterol is called HDL and bad cholesterol is called LDL. And furthermore most of those numbers and ratios are GENETIC and these days precaustions can be taken to counteract most of the things you listed but that is a whole nother topic bro. We are talking toxicity of one drug vs another here on this thread and fact is injectible water based winnie is factually cleaner than dbol. Agreed?
 
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infinity1

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Really? Name a cleaner one. You are basically listing the negatives of all aas. And I, not so sure about the 17AA part but I may stand corrected there- may I say. So what is cleaner than water based winnie mg per mg- correct answer: Nothing. Do your research and prove me wrong.

Both the oral version and the injectable version of Winstrol are 17aa-that is why you can drink the injectable version. Yes you are correct the cholesterol issue and the heart issue are common for aas. But as for winstrol being clean your are way off base. This thread is about whether Winstrol or Dbol is more toxic to your liver right? Well both are toxic as they are both 17aa and should not be used for extended periods of time.
 

strongrhino

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Both the oral version and the injectable version of Winstrol are 17aa-that is why you can drink the injectable version. Yes you are correct the cholesterol issue and the heart issue are common for aas. But as for winstrol being clean your are way off base. This thread is about whether Winstrol or Dbol is more toxic to your liver right? Well both are toxic as they are both 17aa and should not be used for extended periods of time.
This thread was not about time of cycle it is about which is more hepatoxic. and dbol is more hepatoxic than inj water based winnie mg per mg- fact.
 

infinity1

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This thread was not about time of cycle it is about which is more hepatoxic. and dbol is more hepatoxic than inj water based winnie mg per mg- fact.

StrongR-i never said the thread was about length. I did say it was about the toxicity of winny and dbol. You claim that winstrol is a "clean drug" i'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion when winstrol is a 17aa drug...thats all im saying...but i will try and find the study i was reading not long ago that would support my thoughts.
 

strongrhino

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All good bro. Ask around. Look around. Ive taken both extensively on and off for over 20 years. I know toxic. Believe me. Maybe someone else will voice their opinion and even if they are both alpha kelated to bypass liver- so are many prescription drugs. Its the other sides and I know win (again- water based inj) vs oral dbol mg per mg is no contest as far as toxicity. Like a no brainer- so factual and known for a long time.
 

infinity1

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All good bro. Ask around. Look around. Ive taken both extensively on and off for over 20 years. I know toxic. Believe me. Maybe someone else will voice their opinion and even if they are both alpha kelated to bypass liver- so are many prescription drugs. Its the other sides and I know win (again- water based inj) vs oral dbol mg per mg is no contest as far as toxicity. Like a no brainer- so factual and known for a long time.

All good!!! Agreed-inj winny vs oral dbol-you would be correct on that one! Not break your balls-but I will anyway!!! its alpha alkylated and the process is used to help the drug pass through the liver and to extend its half life...not trying to be a dick but I just thought you should know!!! I enjoyed the banter!!! Have a good night bro!
 

wardog50

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This thread was not about time of cycle it is about which is more hepatoxic. and dbol is more hepatoxic than inj water based winnie mg per mg- fact.

This is not true.

The winnie is just as toxic whether injected or taken orally. It WILL get processed by the liver in either method. The ONLY difference is that the injectable can get completely taken up by the body while the oral method loses some during uptake through the digestive tract. This gets more bang for the buck but the injectible will still be processed and still cause the same amount of liver toxicity.

D-bol and winny basicaly equal in toxicity.
Its the methyl and alkyl groups that cause the liver toxicity not the hormone itself.
Non methylated d-bol is just EQ with no ester.
Which is no problem on the liver, even EQ itself when esterfied has no real impact on liver values.
That same hormone with a methyl group attached becomes D-bol AND THEN it gets toxic on the liver.


The differences in toxicity on the liver are probably leaning to alkyl being a little more toxic but the difference is really nominal.(this would tend to make winnie more toxic mg for mg but the difference really is small or basically equal.).

War
 
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communistkiller

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From Winstrol Side Effects

Both Winstrol oral and injectable forms are 17-alpha alkylated compounds and both can increase liver enzymes such as alkaline phosphatase. While this can easily be prevented by limiting the use of Winstrol to 8 weeks and using recommended doses, other methods of helping the liver can also be used. In order to minimize the Winstrol side effects of jaundice or liver necrosis, you can always opt to take some form of liver support such as liver detoxification supplements and milk thistle. You may also want to increase pro-liver antioxidants such as vitamins E and C, and minerals including selenium and zinc.

Winstrol side effects, as well as the side effects caused by other steroids, may be potentially dangerous. Being aware of what these are, however, can minimize adverse reactions from occurring. While treatment is available for some of these Winstrol side effects, prevention is still the key in safely using this steroid. It is greatly advised that Winstrol be used in its recommended dose and in the recommended duration.

----- The injection is broken down in the liver, the same way as oral... Its not safer on the liver, its just better absorbed in the body by not losing its effectiveness in the digestive track. Thats why the mg through injection is usually less than oral. Thus you need more oral to get the same effects as the injectible, therefore raising liver enzymes quicker and higher...
 

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