Deadlifts or rack deads for back?

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

Was this natural ?

no

 

[UsmcOldSchoolMuscle]

what if you touch and go and slow the negative? Or Dorian dead’s?

not being argumentative, just picking your brain

I personally perform the Dorian Dead's.

 

[UsmcOldSchoolMuscle]

Not a deadlift done, only 160 lbs and look at mine. Heavy bent over barbell rows and seated cable rowsView attachment 124971

What angle do you utilize when hitting bent over barbell row? In the MD video of Dorian Yates training Kai Greene, Yates states that 35 degree angle of the upper body is best for engaging the lats. What angle would you say is best for also incorporating the Erector Muscles?

 

[madg]

What angle do you utilize when hitting bent over barbell row? In the MD video of Dorian Yates training Kai Greene, Yates states that 35 degree angle of the upper body is best for engaging the lats. What angle would you say is best for also incorporating the Erector Muscles?

Not bboy but i do 35 degree and 90 degree parallel to floor

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

Not a deadlift done, only 160 lbs and look at mine. Heavy bent over barbell rows and seated cable rowsView attachment 124971

Most fucking stacked 160 of all time DAMN!!!!!

 

[madg]

Most fucking stacked 160 of all time DAMN!!!!!

Agree and is reason i respect brad so much

 

[KillerStack]

What angle do you utilize when hitting bent over barbell row? In the MD video of Dorian Yates training Kai Greene, Yates states that 35 degree angle of the upper body is best for engaging the lats.

Here's something interesting to think about: the same fella B-Boy linked to in the OP comes from the Coach Kassem school of trainers. Their position is this: rows done either of these ways by most bodybuilders are not really a lat exercises either! Furthermore, chins suck for lats due to the angles and the way most bodybuilders do pulldowns are better termed latless pulldowns because they are mostly teres and upper back. You should not arch or lean back for lat engagement. They do pulldown with a neutral back and slight forward lean on a slightly inclined bench against chest with a shoulder width grip. Wide grip is mostly mid back.

B-Boy, have you seen these arguments? What do you think?

 

[KillerStack]

This the proper way to do pulldowns for lats according to them. You see a lot of bbers doing these now on IG, like Jordan Peters and guys in his circle.

 

[KillerStack]

Here's Allen doing them. Read the caption.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

 

[b-boy]

Here's something interesting to think about: the same fella B-Boy linked to in the OP comes from the Coach Kassem school of trainers. Their position is this: rows done either of these ways by most bodybuilders are not really a lat exercises either! Furthermore, chins suck for lats due to the angles and the way most bodybuilders do pulldowns are better termed latless pulldowns because they are mostly teres and upper back. You should not arch or lean back for lat engagement. They do pulldown with a neutral back and slight forward lean on a slightly inclined bench against chest with a shoulder width grip. Wide grip is mostly mid back.

B-Boy, have you seen these arguments? What do you think?

Yes now I do, hammerstrength lat pulldown machine is a true lat worker, cable pulldowns are an upper back movement, yes I agree

 

[KillerStack]

Yes now I do, hammerstrength lat pulldown machine is a true lat worker, cable pulldowns are an upper back movement, yes I agree

They are critical of the Hammer back pieces due to the loading curve, too heavy in the shortened position. So they attach an extra handle when working with most pulldown back pieces.
Or kneeling in front of the rowing machines to change the curve.

 

[UsmcOldSchoolMuscle]

Here's something interesting to think about: the same fella B-Boy linked to in the OP comes from the Coach Kassem school of trainers. Their position is this: rows done either of these ways by most bodybuilders are not really a lat exercises either! Furthermore, chins suck for lats due to the angles and the way most bodybuilders do pulldowns are better termed latless pulldowns because they are mostly teres and upper back. You should not arch or lean back for lat engagement. They do pulldown with a neutral back and slight forward lean on a slightly inclined bench against chest with a shoulder width grip. Wide grip is mostly mid back. Personally I find that I have to go rather light to perform pull downs in this manor.

B-Boy, have you seen these arguments? What do you think?

I agree with most the train of thought that you have listed. I do think bent over rows can certainly target the lats with the caveat being that they must be performed at the right angle and the correct width of the grip. As Mike Mentzer states his H.I.T book close supinated grip is best for lat pulls as the wide grip is inferior for targeted the lats and greatly reducing range of motion. Periodically I will do wide grip pull downs but I use the singe hand pulleys which increasing available range of motion and I am very strict as not to lean back or bob in anyway. You supplied good food for thought and examples of replacement forms for common lifts, which are appreciated.

 

[opietaylor]

i cant help but picture Dorian Yates laughing at the above pictures.

 

[mpjuice]

I agree that deadlifts are by far the most overrated exercise for back development, especially the way most people do them where there's zero emphasis on the eccentric part (which is the most important part of a rep for hypertrophy) of the movement.

 

[juggy38]

I agree with most the train of thought that you have listed. I do think bent over rows can certainly target the lats with the caveat being that they must be performed at the right angle and the correct width of the grip. As Mike Mentzer states his H.I.T book close supinated grip is best for lat pulls as the wide grip is inferior for targeted the lats and greatly reducing range of motion. Periodically I will do wide grip pull downs but I use the singe hand pulleys which increasing available range of motion and I am very strict as not to lean back or bob in anyway. You supplied good food for thought and examples of replacement forms for common lifts, which are appreciated.

I find if you have a ez bar that can be loaded heavy enough, a close grip supination can hit the lower Lats.

I like a seated row with a mag grip better

 

[UsmcOldSchoolMuscle]

i cant help but picture Dorian Yates laughing at the above pictures.

The amount of weight that guy has on the hammer row

 

[nothuman]

Anyone have a deadlift machine at their gym? It's so much more user friendly. My new gym has one and it's make me not hate doing deadlifts anymore

 

[KillerStack]

i cant help but picture Dorian Yates laughing at the above pictures.

Well, Dorian was all about precise and efficient movements as well as machines so he might not laugh at them. He wasn't one of those guys who thought free weights build mass and machines polish it up. It was all about stress on the muscle intended, not about looking "hardcore" and old-school.

Regarding the poor loading curve on Hammer pieces, I've noticed it for years. Very easy on the first half, but too heavy to finish. So you lose a lot of potential stress on the first half if you do full range motions.
I never tried the Prime line of equipment but that kneeling fella, Kassem, I think he was involved in the designs or at least endorses them.

Jordan Peters is pretty hardcore and I think he is being sort of coached by Kassem.

Here's another pro doing these Kassem inspired lat pulls

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

 

[UsmcOldSchoolMuscle]

I find if you have a ez bar that can be loaded heavy enough, a close grip supination can hit the lower Lats.

I like a seated row with a mag grip better

I've never used a mag grip bar. Perhaps I will buy one in order to see how I respond.

 

[UsmcOldSchoolMuscle]

Well, Dorian was all about precise and efficient movements as well as machines so he might not laugh at them. He wasn't one of those guys who thought free weights build mass and machines polish it up. It was all about stress on the muscle intended, not about looking "hardcore" and old-school.

Regarding the poor loading curve on Hammer pieces, I've noticed it for years. Very easy on the first half, but too heavy to finish. So you lose a lot of potential stress on the first half if you do full range motions.
I never tried the Prime line of equipment but that kneeling fella, Kassem, I think he was involved in the designs or at least endorses them.

Jordan Peters is pretty hardcore and I think he is being sort of coached by Kassem.

Here's another pro doing these Kassem inspired lat pulls

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

I've never felt the unilateral row from Hammer Strength target my lats. In fact In weird ways I would try and feel my upper back a bit more. It never felt comfortable to me. Essentlially I'm using heavy weight and yanking all the way back, slow negative etc, yet still the mind muscle connection is lacking. I would really only use it as "pound weight" movement and would go heavy on it when a bunch of other equipment was being taken up. I may have to workout at the busy hours and we've all witnessed the social lifters in a group that take up equipment forever talking half the time.
I always thought that machine was specifically designed to allow ego lifters too throw on more plates. I prefer the 45 degree angle rowing machines.


The handle that Kuba is using, do you know what these are called?