Degenerative Discs

[FIRE0808]

Thank you dragonfire. You pin the usual way for BPC? High dose omega 3 and Curcumin what are we looking at here? Any range?

 

[jcc80]

This is a great thread actually. Let me resurrect it. My mri just came back proving that I have degenerated discs. Plus scoliosis, but I'd known about that for years already. I stubbornly tried to keep deadlifting fairly heavy until this past year.

Any new thoughts on this, 5 years later? I'm going to look into a couple pieces of equipment mentioned here.

Is the type 2 collagen something of value here?

 

[Bio]

bio i have bad c5 c6 for years now never any pain just lost probably 50 % of bicept and tricept strength after your fusion did all your strength come back?

Hey muscle89, now is a good time to answer this as I've had more time to recover but I had more surgeries too. The C5-6 and C6-7 Fusion went fine and I only had positive results. In 2018 I had two more neck surgeries, one being a C7-T1 Fusion. I was having quite a bit of pain in my left arm, my strength was still ok but it was beginning to atrophy. Post-op was when my strength plummeted. I read up on it at the time and there are occasions when the impingement on the nerve is released you temporarily get the negative side effects. I could barely curl a 20lb dumbbell for 8 reps with my left arm. Since then my strength has come back 90% but the bicep is flat when I flex it. The doctor warned me that nerve damage in that area can become permanent in a very short time. I had hoped that we beat the curve but not quite.

Did you ever wind up getting surgery? If so, I hope it wasn't too late since you had already lost so much strength.

One thing that hadn't been confirmed when this thread originally came out was my diagnosis of Ankylosing Spondylitis. So for me it makes things different from others. For those that are experiencing degenerative disc issues, which most people will, the only thing you can do is try to control inflammation. NSAID's help but too much can cause kidney and stomach issues. If a reasonable amount of NSAID's isn't doing the trick you could ask about corticosteroid injections and RFA (Radio Frequency Ablation).

My friend at the gym is the first person i know who said he has been injecting BPC157 into his back in the lower spine area where his disks are messed up, and he said it has worked very well. I was always afraid to recommend that anyone inject anything near their spine. I would be very careful if doing this. It has helped my friend quite a bit.

I'm sure the type of injections he's doing are similar to trigger point injections. These type of injections are much more superficial and go into the affected muscles. The deeper injections, which I'm also quite familiar with, are done at a surgery center under fluoroscopy where medication is injected next to the affected nerve. I'm actually having an epidural done next Tuesday and had RFA done 4 months ago!

 

[jcc80]

A cortisone shot looks to be on the menu for me next. I'm fine with that, I guess. I'm not entirely opposed to surgery if it's going to improve my quality of life.

My goals have changed and I'm perfectly fine with ditching heavy deadlifting and squatting. But I am just wondering if there are behavioral practices and supplements/drugs (NOT painkillers, I have a somewhat addictive personality) that can help.

 

[SOUR DIESEL]

A year ago this month I had C5-6 and C6-7 fused

In 2018 I had two more neck surgeries, one being a C7-T1 Fusion.

^^^hey brother ..with regards to the above;

..do you know if there was a loss of BMD (Bone Mineral Density) in these areas? (..prior to the fusion surgery)

..did the X-rays show any? ..or did the Dr express that?

..also were you treated with any BMD promoting drugs post-surgery? ..such as "Reclast" (Zoledronic Acid)


^^^curious

.​

 

[maldorf]

Bro, i was diagnosed with it when I was in my early 20's. Here is my take on it.

I was competing and lifting extremely heavy at the time. I asked my doc if it was caused my the lifting etc, he said no, its something that would have happened if I was a computer programmer and not doing anything physical. what is kinda interesting to me, is that I I noticed far less pain from it when my spinal erectors were well developed and I had a ton of lumbar muscle. I am by no means small now, but I was just much more muscular then. I tend to believe the musculature I had built around my lower back, helped to 'support' my discs more and kept them from sliding around. Contrary to what others may tell you, i think having your low back well delivered will actually help to hold the discs in place better and keep you from feeling as much pain. This is just a theory, but its my experience. If I had to do it all over again I would have started some kind of yoga routine much earlier in my life as that is one of the things i do now, that seriously makes me feel a ton better.

when you think about it, you have all of these nerves going into your spine. My thought process is that the more blood, traction, movement the spine has, then the less c chance you will suffer from nerve damage or will be limited by some nerve not firing correctly. Theres no science behind this, just my theory.

Plus I just feel a TON better when my back is loose and agile and flexible. I am not deadlifting 600lbs anymore, I will only do 250-315 or so on good days, but I keep my form more strict and I do a lot of other exercises to help strengthen the core, abs, and lower lumbar.

g

I'm with you 100% on this! Once your back muscles atrophy, the spine has less support. That's when my pain and trouble started. After my heart attack I had to stop lifting heavy and my muscles all atrophied. After a few years of that, the pain started in. At the time I figured lifting light would make my back less sore because of less stress on it. I was wrong.

I asked my chiropractor and orthopedic surgeon about this and they agreed that its a factor.

 

[maldorf]

Get him an inversion table. It wont cure him but it will help.

Will it help the neck much? I'm thinking that it may not do much. Does anyone with neck trouble try it? It works great for my lumbar region.

At the chiropractors office he has a traction table that pulls my hips down to stretch out the vertebrae. It has another harness that pulls on the head I think. Never needed that.

 

[maldorf]

Thanks Ashop. Will look it up.

That Teeter brand is good. It's what I use.Geardepot posted another Teeter device that provides traction. It's quality equipment.

 

[maldorf]

Hey muscle89, now is a good time to answer this as I've had more time to recover but I had more surgeries too. The C5-6 and C6-7 Fusion went fine and I only had positive results. In 2018 I had two more neck surgeries, one being a C7-T1 Fusion. I was having quite a bit of pain in my left arm, my strength was still ok but it was beginning to atrophy. Post-op was when my strength plummeted. I read up on it at the time and there are occasions when the impingement on the nerve is released you temporarily get the negative side effects. I could barely curl a 20lb dumbbell for 8 reps with my left arm. Since then my strength has come back 90% but the bicep is flat when I flex it. The doctor warned me that nerve damage in that area can become permanent in a very short time. I had hoped that we beat the curve but not quite.

Did you ever wind up getting surgery? If so, I hope it wasn't too late since you had already lost so much strength.

One thing that hadn't been confirmed when this thread originally came out was my diagnosis of Ankylosing Spondylitis. So for me it makes things different from others. For those that are experiencing degenerative disc issues, which most people will, the only thing you can do is try to control inflammation. NSAID's help but too much can cause kidney and stomach issues. If a reasonable amount of NSAID's isn't doing the trick you could ask about corticosteroid injections and RFA (Radio Frequency Ablation).




I'm sure the type of injections he's doing are similar to trigger point injections. These type of injections are much more superficial and go into the affected muscles. The deeper injections, which I'm also quite familiar with, are done at a surgery center under fluoroscopy where medication is injected next to the affected nerve. I'm actually having an epidural done next Tuesday and had RFA done 4 months ago!

How did the RFA work for you? Any bad effects?

My neighbor has an electrical stimulation device medically implanted ,and it stimulates nerves in his lower back. He says it helps him. I think it constantly sends out a weak impulse that somehow decreases his pain. He also had most of the lumbar vertebrae fused. The device has a battery that he charges each day.

 

[SOUR DIESEL]

Will it help the neck much? I'm thinking that it may not do much. Does anyone with neck trouble try it? It works great for my lumbar region.

At the chiropractors office he has a traction table that pulls my hips down to stretch out the vertebrae. It has another harness that pulls on the head I think. Never needed that.

..i think i know what you'r talkin' about

Never needed that.

^^^yeah ..me neither


.

 

[maldorf]

View attachment 147836 ..i think i know what you'r talkin' about



^^^yeah ..me neither


.

Sadam Hussein tried that one.

 

[SOUR DIESEL]

Sadam Hussein tried that one.

^^^YA he did ..from a "results" prospective, it worked great ..fixed his neck problem ..aaand all his other problems in 1 visit


ohhh boy ..dang, we'r both in poor form today brother ..lol

..i digress

.

 

[Hermogenes]

ELDOA is a modality that creates space in every single spinal joint

 

[jcc80]

ELDOA is a modality that creates space in every single spinal joint

Care to elaborate a bit on this? I did a brief Google search and it sounds somewhat interesting.

 

[Bio]

How did the RFA work for you? Any bad effects?

My neighbor has an electrical stimulation device medically implanted ,and it stimulates nerves in his lower back. He says it helps him. I think it constantly sends out a weak impulse that somehow decreases his pain. He also had most of the lumbar vertebrae fused. The device has a battery that he charges each day.

It worked good on some of the lower levels of the sacrum but there was still something extremely painful going on above that. Tuesday I had an epidural on s1 but so far it only helps if I'm inactive. Just running errands is causing that area plus the entire right hip to hurt along with pain down my leg and on top of the leg. The top of the leg is an entirely different level.

I saw my surgeon last week and we once again discussed fusing my SI joints. I got quite a surprise when he told what the recovery was...the first 4 weeks is 50% weight bearing on crutches and then it increases from there. That sucks to hear because I'm in pretty decent shape now after the gyms being shut down. Not complaining but it seems like whenever I get the body to a place I like again, something needs to be repaired. It is what it is. Part of me wants to get it out of the way but I can't do this year because last week my dad fell and broke his left humerus near the shoulder and his right hand. He walks assisted so he can't walk at all now. He's in a care facility until everything is healed.

 

[Hermogenes]

Care to elaborate a bit on this? I did a brief Google search and it sounds somewhat interesting.

I had a bulding L5-S1, did ELDOA for it and after one year a MRI showed a regress, basically what you do it put your body in a position, do a full body max effort isometric hold for 60 seconds and pull apart each side of the joint, creating space in between the bones.
The same process can be done for every spinal joint and it is the only thing that would alleviate my excruciating pain

Guy Voyer can explain it better on google

 

[maldorf]

It worked good on some of the lower levels of the sacrum but there was still something extremely painful going on above that. Tuesday I had an epidural on s1 but so far it only helps if I'm inactive. Just running errands is causing that area plus the entire right hip to hurt along with pain down my leg and on top of the leg. The top of the leg is an entirely different level.

I saw my surgeon last week and we once again discussed fusing my SI joints. I got quite a surprise when he told what the recovery was...the first 4 weeks is 50% weight bearing on crutches and then it increases from there. That sucks to hear because I'm in pretty decent shape now after the gyms being shut down. Not complaining but it seems like whenever I get the body to a place I like again, something needs to be repaired. It is what it is. Part of me wants to get it out of the way but I can't do this year because last week my dad fell and broke his left humerus near the shoulder and his right hand. He walks assisted so he can't walk at all now. He's in a care facility until everything is healed.

Sorry about your dad. Mine has fallen as well. Isn't old age grand. My mother, aunt, and uncle have all had bad falls. They are in the early to mid 80s. It's great you're helping your father.

I went to a very highly respected back surgeon here and he said my xrays showed things to not be so bad as to require surgery. If things get worse or don't improve he said he will do a mri on me. He also said he didn't think any cardiologist in his right mind would suggest I get back surgery now. Heart failure and clotting disorder. I'm hoping I can rehab my low back on my own.