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Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness (question)

ill try to find a couple studies i had that proved the hypothesis that doms is not lactic acid related.

i really like your description of the feeder workouts, i do this myself in the guise of full body, functional training/ core workouts on off days. i feel it helps my recovery, partly i think because its another opportunity for pre/ post nutrition.

I once heard Doms described as "Time spent Healing, NOT supercompensating"
Im not sure of the scientific validity of this, but excessive doms DOES delay further intense training for me. as the game said, the muscles performance tends to be sub par.......

Ive always tried to hit each muscle E5d, and had to manipulate my volume to ensure i was recovered by then, the vol tends to differ depending on stress, gear, sleep levels etc.

what experience have you guys had playing with vol???






I remember doing "feeder workouts" in college. I don't do them anymore but we thought that getting a mild pump going the next day increased blood flow and nutrients to aid the healing muscle. Is there any validity to all that?

What if the soreness is just some lingering byproducts of the exercise itself and not necessarily damaged tissue (i.e. lactic acid)?

Seems as though I can be sore for a week even though I know (or at least I think I know) that that muscle has had enough rest.

I guess there is just no definitive way to tell other than to use your performance as a barometer? Though, I've had shit workouts on days that I felt great, and some days you feel like junk and then you go blow the roof off the gym.
 
OTH? You Wear Pink Panties?

:p hahahahaha....

Seriously, I brought this old post back from the dead to discuss DOMS. Not periodization or training methods. lol.

So its now Sunday, had trained legs on Wed., and I can finally walk. hahaha... Was going to hit legs yesterday, but still too sore to get out of a chair...let alone squat.

I always go through this when I've had a 2-3 week layoff...and it only lasts one week. Then life gets back to normal. Legs are always affected the most...without question.

I just find it hard to believe that its microtrauma...when the pain comes two days later to the extent of not being able to walk. But then again, let's take some other injuries as an example besides a complete avulsion. For instance, "tennis elbow or golfers elbow." Having played many years of competitive tennis I can remember having soreness two or three days later. Sort of like this. So maybe its not soo far fetched. I also know that there must be inflammation associated with DOMS. My lower quad muscle right above the knee is usually always really swollen. So maybe this tearing and microtrauma is not so far fetched. Would love to see some studies on this.
Cheers!
 
OTH? You Wear Pink Panties?
Apparantly in someone's world I do. Nothing has changed since I started this thread. We still don't know fully what causes it. It is certainly odd that it's delayed. What conditions exist initially that prevent it from hurting the day after but then exist the next day when you DO feel the pain? It's certainly not a "He'll feel that in the morning," because I've woke up without pain only to find that as the day wore on, pain began to increase. For me it works like this:

workout day (8AM workout)
muscle worked hard, usually pumped
afternoon-evening - muscles go a bit flat

first day after
morning-afternoon - muscles look full (maybe even swollen)
evening - soreness begins to set in

second day after
muscles sore

Maybe it's that the microtrauma causes some increase in intra- and extra-cellular fluid that stems soreness until it drains. You can notice something as well by sitting in a jacuzzi where it almost seems for a those minutes that soreness has gone away. After you step out and cool off though, pain returns. Although a dry sauna or jacuzzi, at least for me seems to do more to lessen the duration of muscle soreness. Massages after soreness has set in don't do much good and hurt like hell.
 
Hey OUCH, Pink Panties are for pussies......So by your own admission.....LMAO! And yes I am a sick bastard!!

There are times when I encounter the most brutal uncivilized workouts I can conjur up in my twisted mind and no soreness...........................Other times I can have a really good but in my mind mediocre workout and get soreness 24-48 hrs later. I have no real answer or even a swag (scientific wildass guess) at this syndrome. But I get the same pattern of being sore almost as you described above. I do believe it is the microtrauma that brings this about. Much like a deep tissue injury (bruise) that takes days to become apparent. I still say that it is fine to train another muscle group when the supporting/assisting muscle is still sore. The object of healing is rest, yes, but also increased bloodflow/circulation to the site. So pumping will do just that. As for doing some high volume training, give it a bash, you will know within 4-6weeks if it's giving you what you want from it. Me personally, I swear by it!
 
When doing (or better when starting) a high(er) frequency routine you will have to train through soreness initially or otherwise you'll never get conditioned to it

Bigheinz: you as a HIT-fan should know this, Arthur Jones himself for example said this exact thing :)


You know i love HIT but i am doing high frequency write know and i train some mucles every four days wich is a good time to let the soreness desapear and recuperate
 
perhaps it has to do with the flight or fight response. for example if you were battlin a sabre tooth tiger and caused micro trauma and the body immediately downgraded performance youd die. same thing here perhaps the body waits til its sure you really are finished!!!!





:p hahahahaha....
I just find it hard to believe that its microtrauma...when the pain comes two days later to the extent of not being able to walk.
 

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