DESPERATE - Any Suggestions

[rippedboy]

d

excell bro I know exzactly what u are going through your body is rebeling and refusing to get any leaner. i had this same problem at 7% during the summer. my body wouldnt respond to anything I did. Basicaly after I bulked again my body started to respond again. I would do a short bulk cycle and the fat will come off much easier after that Atleast it did for me.

its because you shocked your body out of dieting for so long so your metabolism sped up.

 

[crackerjack414]

exzactly another lesson ive learned in body building u gotta always be trying new things to shock your body into doing what u want it to

 

[Dr.S]

You may not want to hear this

Xcel-- If memory serves me correct, you've made many a comment about not being able to loose the love handle and the lower back fat (even at 5-6% bf).......There is a chance, that no matter what you do, you won't be able to loose it (unless you loose a bunch of muscle too). You should get in contact with Bruce Nadler; i'm not saying to go for liposuction, but I'm sure Nadler has a bunch of stories of guys in your exact situation. Your body is more concerned for survival, not "looking good". Not to mention, you're not a spring chicken anymore.

I don't want to be negative, just realistic. Working hard is great, but try not to stress too much one way or the other.....

As far as diet-- either high fat/ low carb or high carb/low fat
I think most of us know that high fat/high carb will pack on the bodyfat (for most of us)........Instead of having high carb "days", you could add a high carb meal or two a couple times per week.
For example, you last meal on Monday/Thursday or Monday/Friday could be 2 cups of oatmeal with a couple bananas and some veggies (I like to add a peanut butter sandwich on whole wheat bread, too. I think it helps slow digestion and you shouldn't put on bodyfat since your body is in fat buring mode due to the low carb intake during the day. You many want to skip any fat with the meal in this case, though).........If you do this as your last meal, you will get a T-3 boost and be really hungry in the morning. I think having this big carb meal a couple times a week keeps the metabolism firing........


Dr.S.......

 

[crackerjack414]

ive sed the high carb meals like desribed in the past to good avail but u gotta do some tweaking to find out what works bet for u

 

[homonunculus]

Excel: Body weight and Kcals?...

What to you weigh, Bro?...

Sounds like you're around 3000 kcal / day, roughly. To get below 5%, your metabolism is going to slow, no if's, and's or but's about it (well, unless you supplement with thyroid).

I compete close to 200lb and will eventually drop kcal to < 2000 / day to get to <5%. (BTW, even the best methods for estimating body fat will err with individuals this lean. The research to develop computational equations did not include people like this - because there practically aren't any. Frankly it doesn't matter, cuz the judges don't care what some BF test says...)

BUT, I will go to this calorie level gradually. Lower cals as I get leaner.

Also - I always include a periodic carb-up. This lets you replenish glycogen and keep training intensity high (intensity meaning loads used). Maybe I'm old school, but I have had good luck with a <20g carbs / day ketogenic diet, with periodic carb-ups, as frequent as every third day, only on the weekends, or even just after training mid-afternoon.

Basic ideas are:
1. You need carbs to train hard, which you need to do to keep muscle
2. Carbs can help boost you metabolism. Low carb diets greatly reduce thyroid levels.
3. Calories are the name of the game. You must, regardless of macronutrient composition (high fat, low fat, iso, whatever), eat with a caloric deficit to lose fat. Law of Thermodynamics.
4. You're gonna suffer like a MOFO to get to < 5%. Its gonna suck, you're gonna know your body hates you for it, you'll look like a million dollars and feel like a pile of sh*t.

Of course, if you weigh 290, then it sounds like your kcals are OK...

-Randy

 

[xcelbeyond]

Randy brought up many points that I'm aware of. I've gotten down to 5 - 6% BF "many" times. It is very "tricky" getting BF below 5% and that my friends is what I haven't mastered. And as Randy said - your BF means didley to a judge it's how you look. I definately use the mirror for that but body composition is a very good measure of progress or as in my case, lack of progress.

Remember, all is not lost, I'm just farther behind the aggresive schedule that I created - still have 9-1/2 weeks to go.

I'm sure that my Nutrionist friend is just having me do this cyclic program to shock my system. I know that I will need to make the effort to get rid of all fats - but if it's done before you lose enough BF, you can lose too much muscle - which is where I am now.

Jethro: how are you getting nearly 400g protein and ONLY 15g fat?!?!? I get eye of round slabs from a packing plant that are CHOICE cuts with NO visible fat anywhere and 3 cooked ounces has 4.6g fat (24.5g protein). What are you eating, protein wise?
Lean Fish?!?!

If I were to post my diet, the only "high fat" foods are Salmon for one meal and 2 egg yolks (yes I know these will have to go soon). All the other fat is from Protein and supplementary like milled flax and CLA (1g fat per capsule) - a TON of it. So - it's not a lot of bad fats - but fat non the less.

Thanks again as as always, keep it coming, I'm all ears

Oh - as of just now, I'm back up to 188 from 182 - I know most of that is the food and water I've consumed in the last day or should I say it's "shit."

xcel

 

[homonunculus]

OMG!

Xcel,

If I'm less than 7% for more than a few weeks, I start to lose muscle. The low bodyfat simply triggers too much catabolism. You're kickin' major ass to hold at 5% for several weeks.

I think, for the average person (there are freaks - knew a guy once who ate like a pig and stayed at 5%, no matter what he did), getting to sub-5% BF is a temporary thing for the most part. Pros who stay at or near contest condition for prolonged periods (European shows, etc.), are, for the most part, freaks anyway and very careful with rest and replenishment (food) whenever possible, e.g., 1-2 days of good eating if the next show is a week away. Of course, the carb-up before each show is helpful, too. Good genetics and good drugs are a must, and I would be willing to bet that most of those guys lose some muscle during the tour(s).

So, I would suggest either biting the bullet, suffering like a mofo and hitting sub-5% for a week or two (at most), getting some pics, etc. and then eating back up for a while. I take it you've got a show in 9.5 weeks? If so, I might use the time (next 2-4 weeks) now to see what it takes (read: suffer) to get below 5% (like you're doing), then eating up for a couple weeks (you'll actually gain some decent muscle at this point), and repeating whatever it was that got you to sub 5%.

Frankly, I really think your kcals are too high if you're at 3000 / day and weighing <190. Keep protein high (where it is now), hit it around 2300kcal / day and you'll be below 5% in a few weeks.

Also, are you using all the cutting drugs available?... Clen, GH, ECA, yohimbine, yadda, yadda, yadda?...

-Randy

 

[rippedboy]

Re: OMG!

Xcel,

If I'm less than 7% for more than a few weeks, I start to lose muscle. The low bodyfat simply triggers too much catabolism. You're kickin' major ass to hold at 5% for several weeks.

I think, for the average person (there are freaks - knew a guy once who ate like a pig and stayed at 5%, no matter what he did), getting to sub-5% BF is a temporary thing for the most part. Pros who stay at or near contest condition for prolonged periods (European shows, etc.), are, for the most part, freaks anyway and very careful with rest and replenishment (food) whenever possible, e.g., 1-2 days of good eating if the next show is a week away. Of course, the carb-up before each show is helpful, too. Good genetics and good drugs are a must, and I would be willing to bet that most of those guys lose some muscle during the tour(s).

So, I would suggest either biting the bullet, suffering like a mofo and hitting sub-5% for a week or two (at most), getting some pics, etc. and then eating back up for a while. I take it you've got a show in 9.5 weeks? If so, I might use the time (next 2-4 weeks) now to see what it takes (read: suffer) to get below 5% (like you're doing), then eating up for a couple weeks (you'll actually gain some decent muscle at this point), and repeating whatever it was that got you to sub 5%.

Frankly, I really think your kcals are too high if you're at 3000 / day and weighing <190. Keep protein high (where it is now), hit it around 2300kcal / day and you'll be below 5% in a few weeks.

Also, are you using all the cutting drugs available?... Clen, GH, ECA, yohimbine, yadda, yadda, yadda?...

-Randy

yes getting lean is tough. im at like 10 cals per pound of bodyweight. i think the pros have the genetics, yes, but are also using all that gh so when they do eat, they always lose fat while holding their muscle. to eat like a pig and stay at 5%, is definately a manipulation of hormones. test, GH, thyroid, slin, etc.

 

[homonunculus]

Re: Re: OMG!

yes getting lean is tough. im at like 10 cals per pound of bodyweight. i think the pros have the genetics, yes, but are also using all that gh so when they do eat, they always lose fat while holding their muscle. to eat like a pig and stay at 5%, is definately a manipulation of hormones. test, GH, thyroid, slin, etc.

Yep 10 kcal / lb is about where I end up. I bulk @ 20 + kcal / lb, start the diet simply by eating according to appetite which amount to ~15 kcal / lb, then work down to 10 kcal / lb.

Yep, the pro's are firing all cannons pharmaceutically, plus they've got so damn much muscle (and high metabolic rates) that a couple lbs of fat can be lost in a week or less.

-Randy

 

[xcelbeyond]

I certainly don't have good bodybuilding genetics

This last summer I was able to stay in 6-7% BF range and still put on muscle! All I do is lose muscle on T-3. I have superclen and been on it for my "cruise" along with AM-only d-bol. I don't like to do extended periods of ECA (several days at a time) as the stuff really wires me up.

Never done and can't afford GH now.

Can anyone share what their favorite pre-contest proteins consist of? (not like I don't know just want to know what others do)

Cutting AAS that I plan to use are:
Test Base
Tren
Winny
Anavar
and plan on upping letrozole to 2.5mg ED (suppose to help dry you out?!?

xcel

 

[MDRThom]

Have you tried talking to Swolecat? You that this is his specialty and would love to help you out.

 

[MDRThom]

Also, have you considered swiming for cardio? It is the least damaging for of cardio for muscles and joints. If you have access to a pool, it's great way to stretch, loosen up, lower your stress and burn some VERY low impact cals.

The only problem I see is with your low BF% you might sink like a stone!

 

[xcelbeyond]

Also, have you considered swiming for cardio? It is the least damaging for of cardio for muscles and joints. If you have access to a pool, it's great way to stretch, loosen up, lower your stress and burn some VERY low impact cals.

The only problem I see is with your low BF% you might sink like a stone!

HAHAHAHAH - I do sink like a stone!!!!! My wife didn't believe me, so I jumped in the deep end and immediately sank to the bottom - stayed there for a few seconds so she wouldn't think I was faking it somehow.

I expend SOOO MUCH energy just trying to stay afloat that I'd be catabolic within 2 minutes.

xcel

 

[gnpower]

stop cruising

Excel, maybe the loss in lean muscle is because you are on a cruise. Get back on your high mg's asap, especially when that lean and still trying drop. I don't think anyone would recommend lowering your dose while continuing to diet. The way I see it is you didn't gain all that muscle on a few d-tabs and some clen, so why would you try to diet on it? Most of my friends who compete use more gear for dieting than for bulking, and only do cruises during the offseason when doing neither. Hope that helps, makes sense to me anyway.

 

[MDRThom]

Swim Fins! You'd look cute.

 

[bigheinz]

Are you overtraining?
Bro everybody can be a good bb, dont say you dont have genetics or you cant. In my life i sow only 2 guys that they realy have genetics but they grow....

 

[homonunculus]

Few more...

This last summer I was able to stay in 6-7% BF range and still put on muscle! All I do is lose muscle on T-3. I have superclen and been on it for my "cruise" along with AM-only d-bol. I don't like to do extended periods of ECA (several days at a time) as the stuff really wires me up.

Cutting AAS that I plan to use are:
Test Base
Tren
Winny
Anavar
and plan on upping letrozole to 2.5mg ED (suppose to help dry you out?!?
xcel

Sounds like your genetics can't be too bad if you can gain at that kind of BF%...

Couple more thoughts:
-How long have you been on superclen?... Many find that clen stops working after 2-3 weeks.
-The point r.e. dieting natural, but gaining when on was a good one.
-Maybe you could switch to ECA and gradually work your way up to a full dose. You'll get used to it, but may need a few weeks. Maybe try a different product than you've used.

-Biggest question: why spend 9 weeks to only lose 2-4 lb of fat?... Any thoughts on the plan of attack I mentioned last post?...

-Randy

P.S. Awesome to see someone with such an open mind to new ideas. Way cool.

P.P.S. I use chicken, whey concentrate (the cheap stuff), steak, sometimes Sushi as protein sources when dieting - no secret ingredients.

 

[vitor]

Hmmm

Cutting Stack

PRop
Fina
Var

That would help you preserve lean tissue. Here is what I do, might not work for some but works for me.


M-W-F Wake up at 5:30 take some amino acid pills go workout on an empty stomach, M- Chest, Tri's, W-Back, Bi's, F- Legs, Shoulders,

WHen I am cutting I just want to burn calories and stimulate the muscles, I dont goto failure and I try to do more reps. Just going through the motions will help keep that muscle and not fatigue you too much. I try to take 30 second breaks,

Depending on how I feel I might do cardio these days, and I always do a killer ab workout

T-Th-Sat are hardcore cardio days, 30-90mins on the cross trainer,or I go jogging through the hood. WHen u are mildly lean and jogging take that shirt off, it feels good to have some ladies honk at ya.


Diet wise, Im strange in what I Do. I follow a low carb, high fat high protein diet for 1 month to 6 weeks, and then when im getting leaner and leaner and resticting cals, i switch to a low fat, high protein mod carb diet. Just eat every 2 hours

My carb diet goes like this

Postworkout bottle of gatorade and 2 scoops of whey , I add about 40 units of glutamine.

Then I will have oats, shakes, egg white sandwhiches on whole wheat bread, and high fiber bread. At this point in my diet I want to eat enough to keep muscle, and to trick myself that im full, being hungry is hard, so use fiber . I aso use healthy choice roast beef, whole wheat tortillas, beans, some sushi, I make low fat high protein quazeidillah, <--- cant spell it,

Bottom line I think is thermodynamics is thermodynamics, and since we are bodybuilders we have to have our protein.

One thing no one is asking is how old are you, age does play a part in this game.

I also take r-ala, and a ton of vitamins, I take 2 one a days, extra vitamin C, zink, and calcium. Green tea tablets work well too.

SOrry for the ramble, but that is my thoughts.

 

[raybravo]

Re: Few more...

-How long have you been on superclen?... Many find that clen stops working after 2-3 weeks.
-

i think superclen is clen with ketotifene , so u dont have to stop it at 2-3 weeks bro .
anyway , good post by vitor too . .

 

[xcelbeyond]

I want to thank everyone for still contributing to this thread!

Randy - As raybravo said, SuperClen is 100mcg clen "plus" ketotefin (sp?) The ketotefin keeps your receptors clear so it's not necessary to cycle clen.

I can take ECA and frequently do so but only pre-workout. I can't take it all day long as you're suppose to for a thermogenic.

Vitor - thanks for the suggestions. The only thing that has really changed "over the years" is my body's ability to utilize carbs.

Jethro: If you're still there how do you take in ~400g protein and <15g fat? That's less than 1% (of protein). I can and have gone under 15g fat but NEVER with 400g protein!

xcel