• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
SPC-210x65
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
Anabolic Hormones Store Banner
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
olympus
PHARMAHGH1
Bruce Labs Store banner
gd
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
roids-210x65-48kb-1
granabolic123
napsgear-210x65
Blackroids-animated-optimized-number-1
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
advertise1
PM-Ace-Labs
advertise1
kinglab
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

DHB & HEMOGLOBIN

concreteguy

Verified Customer
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
2,152
Being it's a derivative of EQ it would stand to reason that it's going to elevate hemoglobin. Has anyone done bloods to confirm whats going on with it's effects on blood?


My apologies if I missed this in the DHB thread.


Thanks
 

Ashop

FOUNDING Member / Verified Sponsor
Registered
Sponsors
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Messages
11,758
Being it's a derivative of EQ it would stand to reason that it's going to elevate hemoglobin. Has anyone done bloods to confirm whats going on with it's effects on blood?


My apologies if I missed this in the DHB thread.


Thanks

Curious to know this as well. Never seen labs to confirm it but my suspicions would lead to believe it could elevate hemoglobin. A lot of anabolics will, especially if your already having elevated levels.
 

MyNameIsJeff

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2017
Messages
1,725
I have never seen any reliable evidence that EQ is more capable than other AAS in increasing RBC count. Same with Anadrol: just because it is developed and prescribed for some forms of anemia does not mean that it is actually more effective in this regard than other steroids. There are no studies comparing the effect of different AAS on erythropoiesis.

But even if you were to assume that EQ has some magic property that increases RBCs, there is no reason to expect its derivative to have the same property. Also, only a very small proportion of EQ is metabolized to DHB in the human body, so the latter would likely not be responsible for any RBC-specific effects.
 

maldorf

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
24,172
I used EQ and I feel that from my CBC results that trenbolone raised my HCT/HGB more than EQ did. It wasn't until I started messing with tren that my hematocrit got all jacked up.

I think it is the more androgenic steroids that affect EPO production which in turn increases rbc production. There are some other factors too but I think that might be the biggest one. Trenbolone is very androgenic.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02585514
 

MyNameIsJeff

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2017
Messages
1,725
I used EQ and I feel that from my CBC results that trenbolone raised my HCT/HGB more than EQ did. It wasn't until I started messing with tren that my hematocrit got all jacked up.

I think it is the more androgenic steroids that affect EPO production which in turn increases rbc production. There are some other factors too but I think that might be the biggest one. Trenbolone is very androgenic.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02585514
Nice find! I would agree that a steroid's androgenic activity is the best predictor of how it will impact HCT. By that reasoning, DHB would actually be worse than EQ, mg for mg.
 

Phidias

Featured Member/ Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Joined
May 23, 2004
Messages
5,915
Have to agree with both MyNameIsJeff and Maldorf on that one... not only absolutely all AAS will increase to a dose dependent degree RBC/Hematocrit/Hemoglobin, above all the more androgenic the worse it gets.

Which was clearly shown by a few sets of 3 months spaced bloods I remember well from a few years ago:

- first one that was drawn was after about two whole years of TRT at 200mg/week... eveything came back in range, hemoglobin even slightly low (13);

- second one after 12 weeks of Test only but at 1g/week: all markers severely increased, with hematocrit out of range at 53 and hemoglobin still alright but up four points at 17;

- third one after adding for again 12 weeks both tren and masteron at 700mg/week and 400mg/week respectively (still 1g test): RED FLAG... Hematocrit 56 and hemoglobin 20... :eek::eek:

It wasn't until I came back on TRT and gave blood three times (500ml each) that everything returned to normal... so about 1 year later after last tren/mast inject.

Bottom line, CG: DHB will FOR SURE increase your numbers... to which extent is the only question.
 

MyNameIsJeff

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2017
Messages
1,725
RED FLAG... Hematocrit 56
Scary stuff :eek: How did you feel with that number in terms of cardiovascular fitness, blood pressure etc.? Also, were your platelets still in range? Did you have untreated sleep apnea at the time?
 

Phidias

Featured Member/ Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Joined
May 23, 2004
Messages
5,915
Scary stuff :eek: How did you feel with that number in terms of cardiovascular fitness, blood pressure etc.?

AWFUL! Clearly was a walking zombie... zero energy... lethargic was an understatement. :eek: To the point I even asked myself back then if such never-ending exhaustion couldn't be due to something else (cancer, nasty virus, etc...), for stupid me at the time refused to believe/admit AAS were the culprit... perfect case of living in denial. :rolleyes:

If you add the fact I wasn't - on purpose - doing ANY cardio, overshadowing the fact it could benefit me health/cardiac wise, so way beyond just staying lean ("I'm in shape already, I don't need it" was the reasoning :banghead:), it makes even more sense I was feeling at death's doors...

Luckily BP was fine for I was already treated with Ramipril and had been for a few years, but it didn't prevent me from going out of breath VERY easily, like after walking two steps... :cool:

Platelets, fortunately too, had always been moderate for me, and if anything they even decreased while upping AAS... which obviously somehow saved me by greatly reducing my chances for a clots/clogged artery... :cool:

Sleep apnea: I know that's no good at all, but never got tested for it... definitely on that long list of things to do...

Last precision: as of now, there's not a single day that passes without me doing AT LEAST 30 min INTENSE cardio. And I feel SO MUCH BETTER for it!!! :)
 

maldorf

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
24,172
Scary stuff :eek: How did you feel with that number in terms of cardiovascular fitness, blood pressure etc.? Also, were your platelets still in range? Did you have untreated sleep apnea at the time?

I had a hematocrit of 60 once and a hemoglobin of 21. I couldn't ever really tell anything was wrong. I don't know about platelets or sleep apnea. I got tested for sleep apnea around that time but the study didn't go very well because I couldn't really fall asleep in the facility.
 

Thebigone

New member
Kilo Klub Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
3,623
Nice find! I would agree that a steroid's androgenic activity is the best predictor of how it will impact HCT. By that reasoning, DHB would actually be worse than EQ, mg for mg.

EQ’s anabolic to Androgenic ratio is 100:50 DHB is 200:100 so essentially DHB has double the Androgenic activity of EQ. Avg DHB dose is 300mg so that would compare to 600mg EQ. Tren is 500:500 so only 60mg Tren would be on par with both above. That’s crazy! Deca is safer than all of the above at 125:37. I was going to use DHB but after this it seems Primo would be the absolute best with a ratio of only 88:44-57

I’m not so sure about androgenic activity being the worst for RBC’s though as we all know Anadrol is notorious for increasing the hell out of them and it’s ratio is only 320:45

Also Dbol itself is actually EQ with a methyl group attached to its 17-beta hydroxyl group on the steroid chemical structure in order to allow it to become orally bioavailable in the body.

But it’s ratio is only
Anabolic Rating: 90 – 210
Androgenic Rating: 40 – 60

So from that we can conclude that any derivative of EQ does not mean it has the same health effects as EQ.
 
Last edited:

nothuman

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
11,782
Well, I have had a hematocrit of 56 with hemoglobin 19 more than once, and that was on 500mg of test (HCT didn't become an issue until a few years after I began using anabolics, then stayed high).

Honestly, I felt no different. BP and platelets were still low. No apnea or any symptoms of it either. Kind of sucks but it doesn't take much over TRT to get my HCT and HGB in that range after not very long.
 

Reload

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
1,513
Ok this has got me a little concerned. I suspect it's time to see what this small dose of DHB is doing to my #'s.
 

dros

Active member
Registered
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Messages
267
Ok this has got me a little concerned. I suspect it's time to see what this small dose of DHB is doing to my #'s.

How much are you running and how are the effects?

You liking the DHB?
 

pickapeck

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
958
Biggest variables areage and dose. EQ, anadrol and deca are pretty tough on older guys. I never had a problems with crit as a younger man but iver 50 anything over 200 mg/w can be an issue. So keep an eye on your crit.
 

Reload

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
1,513
How much are you running and how are the effects?

You liking the DHB?

Yes I'm liking it VERY much. 200/wk along with my TRT and 2iu GH daily. Warm all the time but not sweaty like Tren...no insomnia at night. Feel full but very little if any water retention. More vascular. Great endurance in the gym and the strength gains have been nothing short of nuts. My training partner (former competative powerlifter) is like WTF! My skin has stayed very clean as well. Recovery has been awesome.

Only downside is some PIP but tolerable. Resolves over a few days.
 

pesty4077

Moderator/ Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Staff member
Moderator
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
9,428
I had a hematocrit of 60 once and a hemoglobin of 21. I couldn't ever really tell anything was wrong. I don't know about platelets or sleep apnea. I got tested for sleep apnea around that time but the study didn't go very well because I couldn't really fall asleep in the facility.

Geez, I am glad I am not the only one. I got tested and only fell a sleep for 3 hours first time with all the wires, could not go back to sleep. They told me I had sleep apnea. The second time I was so tired, I usually would fall a sleep in 5 minutes at my house. The minute they put that mask over my face, I could not breath right in it. Trust me, I tried all different types with same result. I felt like I was suffocating in that mask. Since, I could not fall a sleep with it, they gave up and sent me home.
 
Last edited:

dros

Active member
Registered
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Messages
267
Yes I'm liking it VERY much. 200/wk along with my TRT and 2iu GH daily. Warm all the time but not sweaty like Tren...no insomnia at night. Feel full but very little if any water retention. More vascular. Great endurance in the gym and the strength gains have been nothing short of nuts. My training partner (former competative powerlifter) is like WTF! My skin has stayed very clean as well. Recovery has been awesome.

Only downside is some PIP but tolerable. Resolves over a few days.

This is at only 200mg/wk? Have you gone higher before? What would you compare it to?

I have heard nothing but amazing things about this compund for over a year now and will be starting my DHB next week at 500-600mg/wk with 100mg trt. I am really, really looking forward to it
 

jayl19

Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
945
Some interest stuff here

What does high red blood count have to do with sleep Apnea?

Reason I ask, I have a doctor appointment this Thursday to tell my doctor I think I have it, as soon a fall asleep my air way closes off so much I start choking an wake up, I also have ALL the side effect, pissing all night, tired all day, extreme snoring etc

I thought it was from the massive weight gain from my bulking but I’m on high amounts of gear including Eq so this blood count mention got me thinking
 

MyNameIsJeff

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2017
Messages
1,725
I thought it was from the massive weight gain from my bulking but I’m on high amounts of gear including Eq so this blood count mention got me thinking
The relationship runs the other direction: OSA causes hypoxia, which in turn causes elevated HCT.

Weight gain and steroid use do make obstructive sleep apnea worse, but not trough their effect on RBC count.
 

Staff online

  • LATS
    Moderator / FOUNDING Member / NPC Judge

Forum statistics

Total page views
511,266,433
Threads
125,461
Messages
2,445,404
Members
156,123
Latest member
luc1lle160
Top