DHT + Estrogen, No test

[heavyhitter]

in my opinion, it is 40-60
optimally, some like it above even 100

I feel best at 50-60

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

I feel best at 50-60

Does it matter how much test you take or is it the same that 50-60 feels best at 400mg as 1,000mg?

 

[heavyhitter]

The higher the test I prefer to be on the higher end of that. A smaller cycle id want to be around 50

 

[thethinker48]

Has anyone here tried the dbol + primo cycle from Arnold's era?

Some of those guys never did testosterone.

I'm trying to understand the science behind how it worked so great for them, they didn't take AIs, tamox etc. Didn't have bloated faces, no gynos, etc

There is big confirmation bias here as well

Nobody photographed the fat pimple looking beanbags, or the steroid hypo responders. The best physiques, got the best attention. And the people who were prone to being in that group were also the ones most interested in the sport given how much infancy it was in back then

In that era you saw the cream of the crops in pictures; Joe Weider didn't really care about representing the average man on gear, he was building a herculean image of his brand and athletes

You give Arnold the same drugs and methodologies of today, and I guarantee it would be a positively jaw dropping result. He wouldn't suddenly turn into some ugly monster because he used more testosterone

 

[Kaladryn]

Insulin and GH changed everything that’s all it is, there isn’t some long lost secret as to why guys looked more aesthetically pleasing back then and why they are giant deformed mounds of muscle now.

I don't think it was the slin and gh as much as the site enhancement that has created the unpleasing look present in most bodybuilders today.

 

[Tomgrass]

There is big confirmation bias here as well

Nobody photographed the fat pimple looking beanbags, or the steroid hypo responders. The best physiques, got the best attention. And the people who were prone to being in that group were also the ones most interested in the sport given how much infancy it was in back then

In that era you saw the cream of the crops in pictures; Joe Weider didn't really care about representing the average man on gear, he was building a herculean image of his brand and athletes

You give Arnold the same drugs and methodologies of today, and I guarantee it would be a positively jaw dropping result. He wouldn't suddenly turn into some ugly monster because he used more testosterone

Very true you don't know what you don't know. We only saw what they wanted to show us.

 

[jeroendebleser]

Arnold used a lot of dbol which also Aromatasizes to estrogen.

I know bro

 

[totalrecomp]

Your endo test production also has a lot to do with how well a T free cycle will go IMO. Take a newbie running their first cycle and they will probably feel better with no test in the mix than a guy who has been blasting and cruising for a decade. Yes all cycles will eventually suppress endo production but I would wager a guy with natty test of 800ng/dl will feel better during an eight-week test free run than a guy who makes zero. This would also explain why many golden age guys did not feel test was absolutely necessary as they spent a chunk of the year off recovering so went into their "blasts" with a somewhat functioning HTPA.

 

[headtrainer]

I don't think it was the slin and gh as much as the site enhancement that has created the unpleasing look present in most bodybuilders today.

There’s a lot of truth to this statement!