Dietary Collagen

[whacked]

RE: Hydrolyzed Collagen Peptides

If one is already getting his daily protein requirements in, isn’t this stuff rather “useless as an additional aid” for skin, joints, connective tissue?

Thanks

 

[td]

Probably not useless. In fact quite the contrary.

Collagen is made of non-essential amino acids. Primarily lysine and glycine. So the body certainly can make it or get these components from food. But that doesn't mean it's useless.

We're seeing in the literature that collagen II supplementation improves skin quality and joint integrity as well as reported joint pain.

If one were to be consuming bone broth regularly, then it may be unnecessary. But it's a relatively inexpensive supplement with valid supporting research. With all the wear and tear athletes put on their connective tissue, supplementation seems to be an inexpensive insurance policy.

 

[01dragonslayer]

Probably not useless. In fact quite the contrary.

Collagen is made of non-essential amino acids. Primarily lysine and glycine. So the body certainly can make it or get these components from food. But that doesn't mean it's useless.

We're seeing in the literature that collagen II supplementation improves skin quality and joint integrity as well as reported joint pain.

If one were to be consuming bone broth regularly, then it may be unnecessary. But it's a relatively inexpensive supplement with valid supporting research. With all the wear and tear athletes put on their connective tissue, supplementation seems to be an inexpensive insurance policy.

I've done a little research on this subject as well but cannot really find anything pertaining to a good dosage for athletes. Any ideas?

 

[whacked]

Are there a few amino acids that are missing that would make this a complete protein? If so - What are those amino acids? Thanks

 

[td]

Are there a few amino acids that are missing that would make this a complete protein? If so - What are those amino acids? Thanks

Collagen lacks all the essential amino acids. It's primarily glycine and proline. I don't count collagen supplementation in protein intake target.

 

[td]

I've done a little research on this subject as well but cannot really find anything pertaining to a good dosage for athletes. Any ideas?

I went through literature years ago when I was dealing with a connective tissue injury. I can't remember the amount I settled on.

Now, I simply use 1 serving of TN's product in my intra. I wish I had a better, research supported suggestion.

 

[heavyhitter]

I went through literature years ago when I was dealing with a connective tissue injury. I can't remember the amount I settled on.

Now, I simply use 1 serving of TN's product in my intra. I wish I had a better, research supported suggestion.

I know Dante is a big proponent of type II collagen and has made a recommendation before. I’ll see if I can find it

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Sorry in a rush here today: Ill be quick.
I would never use collagen as a protein source. Separate the two. Either EAA's or a good isolate for muscle / collagen for joints/connective tissue.


The two you should really look into are
1) UC II (undenatured collagen type II usually from chicken sternum) which has been shown to have great benefit at about 40mg a day (capsulized)
2) Hydrolyzed collagen that usually comes from beef...the minimum and i mean minimum seen in studies to have benefit there is 10 grams a day so make 10 grams a day the least amount you use

My opinion is a usage of both (UC II and either hydro collagen or a multi collagen)

Quick Refresher:

Type I : Type I helps to form our skin, bones, tendons, corneas, blood vessel walls and other connective tissues. Type I or type 1 collagen is the strongest type of collagen. If you're looking for a collagen for supporting skin health, type 1 is a top choice since it's literally a building block of the skin. Type 1 collagen, for example, can be found in supplements featuring bovine or fish collagen. These also generally feature certain amino acids, including proline, glycine and hydroxyproline. Fish or marine collagen is generally easily absorbable by the body. Egg collagen, which is located in the whites and shells of eggs, contains mostly type I collagen, but also can feature other types of collagen, including collagen type X.

Type II : is the major collagen found in cartilage. Cartilage is connective tissue that protects the ends of long bones at the joints. It's also a structural component of the ear, the nose, the bronchial tubes, the rib cage and more. This is mainly chicken collagen. Chicken collagen also inherently features chondroitin sulfate and glucosamine sulfate, which are both popular for supporting healthy joints.

Type III: Type III is a fibrillar collagen and is a major component of our skin and organs. In the body, type collagen is often found in the same locations as type l. Like type l, it is often in supplements designed to support healthy skin. Bovine collagen, which is derived from the muscles, bones and skin of cows is another collagen supplement option that features mainly types l and lll collagen. These are two of the most abundant types of collagen in the human body.

Type V and Type X: Type V collagen is one of the minor collagen components, forming interstitial collagen fibers — along with type I collagen — and plays a significant role in regulating the development of collagen fibers of connective tissue. Type V collagen co-exists with type II collagen in joint cartilage, while supporting healthy collagen fibers of type II collagen. Type V collagen also functions to create the cells of a pregnant women's placenta, which is the organ that attaches to the lining of the womb. Type V collagen also helps to form cell surfaces and hair. Collagen type X (which is generally found in eggshell membrane collagen) is a protein typically present in normal joint cartilage. Overall, type X collagen is described as a “network-forming collagen.”

 

[BALDNAZI]

Sorry in a rush here today: Ill be quick.
I would never use collagen as a protein source. Separate the two. Either EAA's or a good isolate for muscle / collagen for joints/connective tissue.


The two you should really look into are
1) UC II (undenatured collagen type II usually from chicken sternum) which has been shown to have great benefit at about 40mg a day (capsulized)
2) Hydrolyzed collagen that usually comes from beef...the minimum and i mean minimum seen in studies to have benefit there is 10 grams a day so make 10 grams a day the least amount you use

My opinion is a usage of both (UC II and either hydro collagen or a multi collagen)

Quick Refresher:

Type I : Type I helps to form our skin, bones, tendons, corneas, blood vessel walls and other connective tissues. Type I or type 1 collagen is the strongest type of collagen. If you're looking for a collagen for supporting skin health, type 1 is a top choice since it's literally a building block of the skin. Type 1 collagen, for example, can be found in supplements featuring bovine or fish collagen. These also generally feature certain amino acids, including proline, glycine and hydroxyproline. Fish or marine collagen is generally easily absorbable by the body. Egg collagen, which is located in the whites and shells of eggs, contains mostly type I collagen, but also can feature other types of collagen, including collagen type X.

Type II : is the major collagen found in cartilage. Cartilage is connective tissue that protects the ends of long bones at the joints. It's also a structural component of the ear, the nose, the bronchial tubes, the rib cage and more. This is mainly chicken collagen. Chicken collagen also inherently features chondroitin sulfate and glucosamine sulfate, which are both popular for supporting healthy joints.

Type III: Type III is a fibrillar collagen and is a major component of our skin and organs. In the body, type collagen is often found in the same locations as type l. Like type l, it is often in supplements designed to support healthy skin. Bovine collagen, which is derived from the muscles, bones and skin of cows is another collagen supplement option that features mainly types l and lll collagen. These are two of the most abundant types of collagen in the human body.

Type V and Type X: Type V collagen is one of the minor collagen components, forming interstitial collagen fibers — along with type I collagen — and plays a significant role in regulating the development of collagen fibers of connective tissue. Type V collagen co-exists with type II collagen in joint cartilage, while supporting healthy collagen fibers of type II collagen. Type V collagen also functions to create the cells of a pregnant women's placenta, which is the organ that attaches to the lining of the womb. Type V collagen also helps to form cell surfaces and hair. Collagen type X (which is generally found in eggshell membrane collagen) is a protein typically present in normal joint cartilage. Overall, type X collagen is described as a “network-forming collagen.”

I’ve been using Dante’s JFlex and beef collagen powder religiously since my rotator cuff/bicep tendon surgery. I’ve been coming along nicely and seem to be ahead of schedule according to both my surgeons and physical therapist. I had a really terrible amount of damage and tissue quality was poor, but as I said rehab is going very well. Has the collagen and JFlex helped? I wouldn’t doubt it. Been off GH and TRT until recently and still managed to heal up pretty good so far.

Going to start pushing it soon and that will tell the true story. But for the amount of money we spend on everything else, I think the least we can do is add something for our joints.

I also wanted to thank Dante again for all his advice and help when I got hurt. He is a very busy guy but took the time to help me and put my mind at ease about my recovery. Can’t say enough how lucky we are to have him in our community. You will always be my brother Dante, love and respect my man.

 

[inoverdrive]

What collagen did the LBA's have? God I miss LBA's

 

[heavyhitter]

What collagen did the LBA's have? God I miss LBA's

Beef

 

[Stonewall58]

I’ve been using Dante’s JFlex and beef collagen powder religiously since my rotator cuff/bicep tendon surgery. I’ve been coming along nicely and seem to be ahead of schedule according to both my surgeons and physical therapist. I had a really terrible amount of damage and tissue quality was poor, but as I said rehab is going very well. Has the collagen and JFlex helped? I wouldn’t doubt it. Been off GH and TRT until recently and still managed to heal up pretty good so far.

Going to start pushing it soon and that will tell the true story. But for the amount of money we spend on everything else, I think the least we can do is add something for our joints.

I also wanted to thank Dante again for all his advice and help when I got hurt. He is a very busy guy but took the time to help me and put my mind at ease about my recovery. Can’t say enough how lucky we are to have him in our community. You will always be my brother Dante, love and respect my man.

What was the dosing regimen he put you on for this? I just ruptured my bicep tendon myself, had surgery a few days ago and about to get an umbilical hernia surgery in the next week or so. Was going to go with high dose glucosamine/msm/chindroiton but remembered seeing this post. Gonna place an order from True Nutrition once I hear from you. I like to get all my stuff at once lol

 

[heavyhitter]

What was the dosing regimen he put you on for this? I just ruptured my bicep tendon myself, had surgery a few days ago and about to get an umbilical hernia surgery in the next week or so. Was going to go with high dose glucosamine/msm/chindroiton but remembered seeing this post. Gonna place an order from True Nutrition once I hear from you. I like to get all my stuff at once lol

I’ve seen dante recommend 40mg of uc2 and upwards of 40 grams of beef collagen daily

 

[krman]

I use Bonafide Beef bone broth and I feel like it has helped with my Hamstring tear to repair quicker than normal. I drink about 16 ounces a day split into 2 8 ounce servings. Seems to be working.

 

[Bonesaw]

What collagen did the LBA's have? God I miss LBA's

Does anyone know why they aren’t made anymore?

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I just get the 1lb grassfed bags and take a few scoops every couple days for my skin, hair, and gums. Doesn't do much for me otherwise. If it does, I'm not aware of it.

 

[heavyhitter]

Does anyone know why they aren’t made anymore?

Dante didn’t want to bother anymore and pitbull is doing other things now. The recipe is still on here

 

[MR. BMJ]

I’ve seen dante recommend 40mg of uc2 and upwards of 40 grams of beef collagen daily

He actually recommends 30-60grams per day of beef collagen. That equates to 1-2 scoops of collagen powder.

Stuff is EXPENSIVE though. Like $20 plus dollars for a pound, which is only like 14-15 scoops...so like 2 weeks' worth if doing 1 scoop per day.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Stuff is EXPENSIVE

Yup. Too expensive IMO. If it was a real game changer I could see it.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Stomach acids and enzymes break down collagen proteins that you consume before they reach the skin. In other words, when you eat collagen, it doesn't go through your bloodstream as collagen.

Also consider that these products are really just ground-up fish, chicken, pig, and cow parts - parts that can act as carriers for contaminants and heavy metals.

Consumerlab.com found that most products contain the levels of collagen on the label BUT one also contained high levels of cadmium.

Yearly, it's a quarter billion dollar industry just in the US so everyone wants a slice of that pie

This was from 2019 so it's over 2 years old but:

ConsumerLab Reveals Best Collagen Supplements - ConsumerLab.com

ConsumerLab tests of popular collagen supplements for wrinkles and joint pain found all of the products contained their claimed amount of collagen, but there were big differences in dose and price.

www.consumerlab.com