Dietary Collagen

[Pheedno]

I did a month long experiment with 4-6 scoops a day of this product........
https://weliveconscious.com/product...o7NAaSoHYVqJHBrsXESp21lqoRWC1utxoCHwUQAvD_BwE

I saw no noticeable difference in joints, skin, hair, or nails. It was expensive.
My dietary protein was high, carbs moderate, fats low. TRT + 2ius of GH a day

 

[OuchThatHurts]

He actually recommends 30-60grams per day of beef collagen. That equates to 1-2 scoops of collagen powder.

Stuff is EXPENSIVE though. Like $20 plus dollars for a pound, which is only like 14-15 scoops...so like 2 weeks' worth if doing 1 scoop per day.

Take any information, even from "a solid bro", with a grain of salt when the individual has a financial interest in selling that product.

 

[MR. BMJ]

Take any information, even from "a solid bro", with a grain of salt when the individual has a financial interest in selling that product.

I've known Dante long enough to know this doesn't hold true with him. I also depend on pubmed and science, as well as solid bros like Lyle McDonald et al, and my own use. This philosophy does not hold true in every case...For example, I value Big A's info he provides on Synthetek products.

 

[buck]

Any real benefit from collagen is probably going to over a long term i would guess. Will it rebuild the cartilage in a joint that has had severe wear, fix a torn ligament and such i would doubt it. Will it keep a joint or surface from wearing away as rapidly as it would without that support. I think there is real merit there. In the old days people got more collagen in their diet from cooking with bones and gnawing on bones to get everything off them. I started using gelatin sporadically over 30 years ago. And use bovine and chicken collagen these days and have joint issues. But moving hundreds of pounds daily in the gym for decades will tend to do that. I know men that were sedentary ad have joints they complain about much more then me. So does it work, who knows. I use it as a preventative.

 

[Pheedno]

Any real benefit from collagen is probably going to over a long term i would guess.

I don't doubt this to be true at all.
The no go for me is the cost. If a supplement that costs as much as it does to hit an efficacious dose doesn't move the needle in a month with absolute consistency, then I think the long term cost is likely not going to justify the % benefit. I went through something like 7 bags of it in that month. It just kind of made me think that people actually seeing/feeling great benefit probably have gaps somewhere else in their regime that the collagen is filling. e.g. women who grossly under eat protein

Curcummin was another one for me. I took (relatively)high dose of the latest and greatest form for upwards of a year. I never saw or felt a difference from it and also had no movement on blood work from it so I just discontinued it.

 

[buck]

I don't doubt this to be true at all.
The no go for me is the cost. If a supplement that costs as much as it does to hit an efficacious dose doesn't move the needle in a month with absolute consistency, then I think the long term cost is likely not going to justify the % benefit. I went through something like 7 bags of it in that month. It just kind of made me think that people actually seeing/feeling great benefit probably have gaps somewhere else in their regime that the collagen is filling. e.g. women who grossly under eat protein

Curcummin was another one for me. I took (relatively)high dose of the latest and greatest form for upwards of a year. I never saw or felt a difference from it and also had no movement on blood work from it so I just discontinued it.

Most things that will help you be healthy and active, you will not feel. Until you are older or deficient. AS i see it. Over loading on most things really will not aid anything, the are health supplements not drugs. We all have to decide what is worth while. And what is it worth if in the future you don't need to buy peptides to repair damage which often seem to do nothing for many people or need joint replacements in your 50's etc. These day i error on the side of proactive not reactive. I spend more then most but i can afford it, and figure i am a good investment!

 

[Stonewall58]

I’ve seen dante recommend 40mg of uc2 and upwards of 40 grams of beef collagen daily

Thank you for that. Placed my order. Gonna take 50-100 g of beef collagen and bought the other formula as well. 4lbs and 2 bottles of the other one to start

 

[BALDNAZI]

What was the dosing regimen he put you on for this? I just ruptured my bicep tendon myself, had surgery a few days ago and about to get an umbilical hernia surgery in the next week or so. Was going to go with high dose glucosamine/msm/chindroiton but remembered seeing this post. Gonna place an order from True Nutrition once I hear from you. I like to get all my stuff at once lol

Haven’t been around sorry. Followed the dosage on the label

 

[Nike22]

What was the dosing regimen he put you on for this? I just ruptured my bicep tendon myself, had surgery a few days ago and about to get an umbilical hernia surgery in the next week or so. Was going to go with high dose glucosamine/msm/chindroiton but remembered seeing this post. Gonna place an order from True Nutrition once I hear from you. I like to get all my stuff at once lol

Not sure about what your opinion on this is but in your case, even if I couldn't train I'd look to combine low dose GH, nandrolone and or EQ to help with collagen uptake. Good luck with your recovery bro.

 

[totalrecomp]

Things to consider:

We did not wear down our joints in a month so expecting even a minor reversal of pain in a short window of time when using essentially a raw material for connective tissue with no anti-inflammatory effects is unfair IMO. Now if your joints were getting progressively worse did they continue to deteriorate during the supplement trial period? If not to me that IS something. If you told me take supp x and nothing joint-related will get worse I'm all over that. Sure reversal of injuries would be great but simply putting the breaks on the deterioration would be HUGE for me. If I never get worse than I am now I can manage quite well.

Below is the AA profile of common hydro collagen beef source and only taken in a vacuum absent of other complete protein sources does its EAA deficient profile matter at all.

@Pheedno I do think a lower dose over a much longer period would have benefitted you more. Liker muscle there is only so much connective tissue the body will lay down regardless of unlimited raw material. Were that supply you usedf a 3-6 month supply the cost becomes far more bearable.

 

[Pheedno]

I don't disagree with anything said, related to the benefits. I simply do not "know". That said..
With the very crude experiment, I was looking for any type of improvement. Not only with joints; but also hair, nails, gut/digestion. SOme kind of improvement that would warrant a longer, lower dose. My biased mind just wasn't seeing/feeling anything from point A to point b
I'm sure there is merit, especially when dietary holes create an environment for the supplement to work. I've ultimately found movement based interventions and hypocaloric conditions to reduce/reverse joint issues to the extent they can(keto was the best but I found that unsustainable).
Hair, nails? I'm going bald and my hands are pretty.
If there more definitive data later down the road, maybe.

 

[Sassy]

Sorry in a rush here today: Ill be quick.
I would never use collagen as a protein source. Separate the two. Either EAA's or a good isolate for muscle / collagen for joints/connective tissue.


The two you should really look into are
1) UC II (undenatured collagen type II usually from chicken sternum) which has been shown to have great benefit at about 40mg a day (capsulized)
2) Hydrolyzed collagen that usually comes from beef...the minimum and i mean minimum seen in studies to have benefit there is 10 grams a day so make 10 grams a day the least amount you use

My opinion is a usage of both (UC II and either hydro collagen or a multi collagen)

Quick Refresher:

Type I : Type I helps to form our skin, bones, tendons, corneas, blood vessel walls and other connective tissues. Type I or type 1 collagen is the strongest type of collagen. If you're looking for a collagen for supporting skin health, type 1 is a top choice since it's literally a building block of the skin. Type 1 collagen, for example, can be found in supplements featuring bovine or fish collagen. These also generally feature certain amino acids, including proline, glycine and hydroxyproline. Fish or marine collagen is generally easily absorbable by the body. Egg collagen, which is located in the whites and shells of eggs, contains mostly type I collagen, but also can feature other types of collagen, including collagen type X.

Type II : is the major collagen found in cartilage. Cartilage is connective tissue that protects the ends of long bones at the joints. It's also a structural component of the ear, the nose, the bronchial tubes, the rib cage and more. This is mainly chicken collagen. Chicken collagen also inherently features chondroitin sulfate and glucosamine sulfate, which are both popular for supporting healthy joints.

Type III: Type III is a fibrillar collagen and is a major component of our skin and organs. In the body, type collagen is often found in the same locations as type l. Like type l, it is often in supplements designed to support healthy skin. Bovine collagen, which is derived from the muscles, bones and skin of cows is another collagen supplement option that features mainly types l and lll collagen. These are two of the most abundant types of collagen in the human body.

Type V and Type X: Type V collagen is one of the minor collagen components, forming interstitial collagen fibers — along with type I collagen — and plays a significant role in regulating the development of collagen fibers of connective tissue. Type V collagen co-exists with type II collagen in joint cartilage, while supporting healthy collagen fibers of type II collagen. Type V collagen also functions to create the cells of a pregnant women's placenta, which is the organ that attaches to the lining of the womb. Type V collagen also helps to form cell surfaces and hair. Collagen type X (which is generally found in eggshell membrane collagen) is a protein typically present in normal joint cartilage. Overall, type X collagen is described as a “network-forming collagen.”

Good info! Thanks for posting!

Is there any data on if collagen helps reduce hair loss or helps with hair growth? It seems like lately (probably because Google is listening), but I've seen a lot of hair loss products claiming if you take their product that contains collagen that is will reduce hair loss and help with growth. I've felt like this is just another hair loss scheme.

I have started using a facial moisturize that's main ingredient is collagen and I have seen a signification improvement in reducing wrinkles and dryness. I have not try any oral products. I would love to find something that would improve my nails and help with hair loss/growth.

 

[totalrecomp]

Good info! Thanks for posting!

Is there any data on if collagen helps reduce hair loss or helps with hair growth? It seems like lately (probably because Google is listening), but I've seen a lot of hair loss products claiming if you take their product that contains collagen that is will reduce hair loss and help with growth. I've felt like this is just another hair loss scheme.

I have started using a facial moisturize that's main ingredient is collagen and I have seen a signification improvement in reducing wrinkles and dryness. I have not try any oral products. I would love to find something that would improve my nails and help with hair loss/growth.

IF your hair loss is due directly to lack of collagen/raw materials then MAYBE it could help. If hair loss is due to one of the million other causes then probably not.

 

[kingpeon]

RE: Hydrolyzed Collagen Peptides

If one is already getting his daily protein requirements in, isn’t this stuff rather “useless as an additional aid” for skin, joints, connective tissue?

Thanks

Boy, I'll tell ya! ever since I started saving the collagen from my eggs and consuming them on a daily basis, around 6-12 a day, my bum knee feels 1000 times better, and it started working within 24 hours

in my experience, collegen is indispensable, in regards to comfort in joints and overall longevity

for the greatest health benefits, take a note from our ancestors, eat as much of the animal as you possibly can

 

[whacked]

Good info! Thanks for posting!

Is there any data on if collagen helps reduce hair loss or helps with hair growth? It seems like lately (probably because Google is listening), but I've seen a lot of hair loss products claiming if you take their product that contains collagen that is will reduce hair loss and help with growth. I've felt like this is just another hair loss scheme.

I have started using a facial moisturize that's main ingredient is collagen and I have seen a signification improvement in reducing wrinkles and dryness. I have not try any oral products. I would love to find something that would improve my nails and help with hair loss/growth.

What it’s worth I was told collagen is too big of a molecule to get through the epidermis and is basically a scam when used/promoted in skin care products. Hyaluronic Acid gets pimped a lot too but all it does is trap water thus acutely/temporarily plumping skin.

I could be wrong - just what I’ve read.

 

[Muay Thai]

What it’s worth I was told collagen is too big of a molecule to get through the epidermis and is basically a scam when used/promoted in skin care products. Hyaluronic Acid gets pimped a lot too but all it does is trap water thus acutely/temporarily plumping skin.

I could be wrong - just what I’ve read.

agreed @ HLA although my theory is this, its a more beneficial and ideal environment for skin cell turnover and anti aging, general skin health and maintenance in . similar to orals on a steroid cycle - are 100% of gains maintainable? not usually, but the progress you make while ON THE COMPOUND is noteworthy and better than when you started. muscles tendons ligaments still progress here, and on HLA + other variables for topical skin care same idea can be applied

 

[Muay Thai]

Boy, I'll tell ya! ever since I started saving the collagen from my eggs and consuming them on a daily basis, around 6-12 a day, my bum knee feels 1000 times better, and it started working within 24 hours

in my experience, collegen is indispensable, in regards to comfort in joints and overall longevity

for the greatest health benefits, take a note from our ancestors, eat as much of the animal as you possibly can

X2 @eggs underestimated for collagen

 

[kingpeon]

X2 @eggs underestimated for collagen

wouldn't you know it?!

it never ceases to amaze just how great eggs are

they've got the perfect protein and healthy fats, an excellent source of collagen ( I believe it's type I, III, IV, V, VII, VIII, XII and XXII) and on top of that, the foundational material for cutting-edge products like Humanofort, Hyperimmune Egg, Young Tissue Extract, etc. etc.

even the shells are great for calcium if you grind them up with pestle and mortar

just steer clear of the chickens fed a high linoleic acid diet, nasty chemical at typical consumption levels