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Dilemma running Orals

thethinker48

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Here's a question for guys who run orals consistently as part of their blasts.

This is something gotgame mentioned using his friend as a case study; and it's something that still bothers me about orals.

Let's say you run 50 mgs of anadrol the first 4 weeks of a blast; your HDL plummets to the 15-20 range, then you drop it, but with testosterone in the supra-physiological range (500+mgs) for the next 12 weeks, your HDL doesn't really recover all that much.

So that's 4 months straight with a bad lipid profile; some prime environment for plaque buildup. My dad has had a double bypass, so this is not something I take lightly.

I'm tempted to run a little anavar for an upcoming event (hoping it wont destroy the appetite); then I think, that'll destroy the lipids completely, and unless I cruise on TRT for the next 8-12 weeks to restore them back, they'll stay tanked just due to the injectables. So I can keep the orals out, keep the HDL in decent range, and prolong a growth phase.

So how do you guys deal with this when running orals? I know many don't even bother in the off season. Pre-contest it makes sense; take the governor off, and do what's needed to bring the best package. But the rest of the year :confused:

Anybody run bloodwork on different ones to see which ones maybe aren't as harsh on the lipids? Best of the worst :)

Disclaimer: Obviously this isn't consistent with everybody; some of you fuckers have titanium organs, but for us mortals it might be an issue.
 

tjitsu

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Similar thoughts here and reason why we tend to run orals at the end of cycle rather then pre!
 

Knight9

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What I would do is get your baseline lipids...(currently or within the last couple months) assuming you haven't done anything recently to skew them.

I'd pick 1-3 ancillaries to run alongside the orals. Perhaps Citrus Bergamot, Krill?, maybe GW-1516 etc etc. If you are going to run orals 6 weeks, re-test your lipids after 4 and then see if it's terrible or holding steady. Upon receiving results in a few days, you can cease the orals, keep them going, or even extend them to 8 weeks if you see little deviance. You can also decide what to do with the rest of your blast. The main objective with this is you know your baseline, you are trying to keep HDL elevated with supps, and you get a snapshot after 3-4 weeks to see how they're being effected. Then, go from there.

If your plan was just to do 4-5 weeks of orals, still test at week 4. Just make your most informed decisions when using supps to keep it elevated and keep a close eye on the snapshot and go from there.
 

suppdude

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Stick to orals pre-workout only. Run Cardarine along side it.

But what knight said is a good way to go to figure out what the oral is exactly doing.


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thethinker48

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Why would your HDL not recover? Mine does and I'm ON all the time.
I think this is where it's genetic.

Higher testosterone already affects the lipid profile, and further inhibits it from recovering if it's been tanked.

Some guys though aren't as affected by it.

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Dens228

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I think lipids are genetic......for the most part. I eat a ton of red meat, hate vegetables, probably don't get enough fiber yet at 54 years old my lipids always come back great, both HDL and LDL. I get blood tests three times a year.

I friend of mine had terrible lipids, changed his diet to the supposed great for lipids diet with no change. Meds were all that worked for him.
 

Elvia1023

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Knight pretty much covered everything. The key is effective supplementation/diet and very regular bloodwork to access weekly changes.

A few things for you to think about though. Orals tank my HDL levels but they do recover even on high test as long as I am using effective supplementation and following a diet geared towards improving cholesterol.

Another thing for guys who want to run decent cycles and stay "healthy" but I guess you could call it still risk things. Your LDL is super important in this whole process. Perhaps your HDL does get tanked but if you have perfect LDL it changes things significantly. In that event it may be ok staying on higher test etc whilst using your supps etc. The presense of high anabolics/androgens may effect the rate your HDL improves but as your LDL are very low it diminishes possible risks. Obviously get blood work done and see at which rate your HDL is improving (if it even is). That way you can make the decision if you are happy at those figures or you need to come off blast.

I try to stay healthy and all my bloodwork apart from cholesterol is usually great. However if my LDL is super low I will carry on blasting after orals are used as long as I see some improvement in my HDL. If there is no improvement in my HDL I change things. I should add I went a long time without orals but just added in 15mg inj adrol and 15mg inj dbol pre workout.
 
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johnjuanb1

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I think lipids are genetic......for the most part. I eat a ton of red meat, hate vegetables, probably don't get enough fiber yet at 54 years old my lipids always come back great, both HDL and LDL. I get blood tests three times a year.

I friend of mine had terrible lipids, changed his diet to the supposed great for lipids diet with no change. Meds were all that worked for him.

Most things are genetic.
 

RamboStallone

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I think this is where it's genetic.

Higher testosterone already affects the lipid profile, and further inhibits it from recovering if it's been tanked.

Some guys though aren't as affected by it.

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I have shit genetics for lipids too. My entire family has low hdl and high ldl lol. I'm on gear and have better numbers then most of them and my ldl is rarely high, my hdl is mostly right under range. Triglycerides are perfect!

What I'm saying is if I'm on 500mg test and it puts my HDL at 30, if I add var and it tanks it to 10, when I come off the var it goes back to the 30. You are saying it will stay at the 10 if staying on the testosterone, not true at all in my opinion.
 

Elvia1023

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I have shit genetics for lipids too. My entire family has low hdl and high ldl lol. I'm on gear and have better numbers then most of them and my ldl is rarely high, my hdl is mostly right under range. Triglycerides are perfect!

What I'm saying is if I'm on 500mg test and it puts my HDL at 30, if I add var and it tanks it to 10, when I come off the var it goes back to the 30. You are saying it will stay at the 10 if staying on the testosterone, not true at all in my opinion.

This is what I have found to be the case for me too. He may be different though. I don't think 500mg test is going to ruin most peoples lipids or prevent them from improving after orals are used as long as everything else is in place. Obviously it may not help matters but for most even with poor genetics for cholesterol, test at that dose is not that bad. Again there are always exceptions. It's a shame avar is so bad for my HDL :eek:
 

RamboStallone

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This is what I have found to be the case for me too. He may be different though. I don't think 500mg test is going to ruin most peoples lipids or prevent them from improving after orals are used as long as everything else is in place. Obviously it may not help matters but for most even with poor genetics for cholesterol, test at that dose is not that bad. Again there are always exceptions. It's a shame avar is so bad for my HDL :eek:
Well add a 1 in front of the 500 lol! I just chose that number cuz that's usually what I run but I've ran more test obviously and same thing. Tren and orals are the only things that wreck my lipids. But when I blasted 1500mg test and took orals preworkout only, my lipids were pretty much similar to what they were on 500mg test. I can't think my genetics help me at all here. Testosterone is not bad on them.
 

Elvia1023

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Well add a 1 in front of the 500 lol! I just chose that number cuz that's usually what I run but I've ran more test obviously and same thing. Tren and orals are the only things that wreck my lipids. But when I blasted 1500mg test and took orals preworkout only, my lipids were pretty much similar to what they were on 500mg test. I can't think my genetics help me at all here. Testosterone is not bad on them.

Yes 500mg is just a rough number. I am on 1000mg test c only now and I bet my HDL has improved due to my supps and diet at the moment. Well ok maybe not after adding in low dosed dbol/adrol the other day. If I add in 50mg avar my HDL will be about 10 after a few weeks :eek:
 

nothuman

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It's a valid concern but 500mg test doesn't do much to lower my HDL. It was 53 on 240mg test. Make sure you're getting an NMR Lipoprofile test and not just lipids.
 

suppdude

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It's a valid concern but 500mg test doesn't do much to lower my HDL. It was 53 on 240mg test. Make sure you're getting an NMR Lipoprofile test and not just lipids.



I was just gonna ask, may cost more, but getting a test like NMR lipoprotein or other particular size test would be cool to really see what an oral is doing pre and post use.


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thethinker48

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I have shit genetics for lipids too. My entire family has low hdl and high ldl lol. I'm on gear and have better numbers then most of them and my ldl is rarely high, my hdl is mostly right under range. Triglycerides are perfect!

What I'm saying is if I'm on 500mg test and it puts my HDL at 30, if I add var and it tanks it to 10, when I come off the var it goes back to the 30. You are saying it will stay at the 10 if staying on the testosterone, not true at all in my opinion.

The 500 mgs of test was just an example.

I was just using a hypothetical range. Let's say you have a reading of 40 on testosterone, you take anavar, it drops down to 15, and recovers back up to 25-30; that's still on the lower end.

But I really doubt it's as concrete as that... :) Some people might not even dip that low, and recover perfectly fine on injectables.

I have the tendency to overthink this stuff; that too is genetic I believe :D

I'll have to try this out on myself to see how my own physiology reacts.

Is your appetite affected by oral use too? Out of all of those, which one had the least effect?
 

Reno911

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To add to what's been said, has anyone had their lipids tested while on injectable orals (A-drol, D-bol, etc)? If so, was there a lower drop of HDL?
 

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