Ditching Supplements?

[Elvia1023]

Lets see everyones updated health supp regimen? Seems most are dropping everything, no?

At the moment I take...

Supplement Needs CV Stack (HeartStack)... 2 servings per day.
Supplement Needs Astrag-Flow (KidneyBPStack)... 2 servings per day.
Controlled Labs Orange Triad + Greens... 2 servings per day.
Zein Pharma Vitamin C... 2500mg AM/PM (5 grams per day).
Yamamoto Nutrition Krill Oil... 1.5g AM/PM (3 grams per day).
Synthetek's Synthergine... 2ml AM/PM (4ml per day).

Soon I will add in a sleeping product called Brain Gains which contains zma, ashwagandha (ksm-66), lions mane, bacopa extract, phosphatidylserine and l-theanine. My krill oil will run out soon and I don't plan to renew it as I take in plenty of good fats anyway.

So a very simple stack to take as most are multi supplement blends so I am taking in an array of useful ingredients without needing to pop 50 pills+ per day. I add the vitamin c powder into my orange triad + greens powder with some added eaa's. I use that drink to swallow the 3 tablet/capsule products and do that AM/PM.

 

[qbkilla]

Lets see everyones updated health supp regimen? Seems most are dropping everything, no?

2x GNC muli per day
1x vitamin D tab per day

the only way I could make my health stack better would be to drop both of them, because in reality, supplements aren't it. diet + physical activity + managing weight are KEY IMO.

 

[Elvia1023]

2x GNC muli per day
1x vitamin D tab per day

the only way I could make my health stack better would be to drop both of them, because in reality, supplements aren't it. diet + physical activity + managing weight are KEY IMO.

Supplements aren't it but why would you be healthier dropping your 2 supps? Are they damaging? I am not stating they aren't a waste but I don't really get your logic. You just seem very anti-supps like they are all bad. What if you would have a vit d deficiency without taking it as a supplement? Obviously in a perfect world you could drop it and take in vitamin d through various food sources. But that still doesn't change the fact vit d supplementation could improve the health of certain people. Not stating it's the case for you for all I know your vit d levels are too high and if you dropped it you would be in fact healthier. You just seem to be very anti-supps which I don't get as there are 1000's of them and some can be beneficial depending upon ones blood markers/genetics. I just try to use common sense with stuff and sure the supplement industry on the whole is complete bullshit but it still doesn't mean certain supps can't aid in ones health.

Take me for example and I have a purpose for all of the 6 products I take. None of them are essential but most of them 100% assist my well being and/or health. Yes I could diet down to 180 pounds and eat very little but all nutritious food and be very healthy but I don't want to be that small. I want to be 260 pounds of solid muscle and when I am my blood pressure can be borderline high. My cholesterol profile can also be skewed at times. So for me to be 260 pounds full of muscle adding in certain supplements 100% improves my cholesterol and blood pressure as examples (there are more). It's not even guessing as I know they improve matters. I could use drugs from a doctor but what's the need when all I need to run are 2 products with things in such as citrus bergamot, allicin, olive leaf extract and hawthorn berry. None of which give me any side effects but do improve certain health markers.

Now if I had a bad issue with cholesterol, blood pressure etc I would 100% go straight to a doctor and be put on some proper drugs as fast as possible. But for some minor issues due to blasting aas certain supplements can be great to keep my health markers in range. I just don't get the all of nothing approach from your posts regards supps. It's a given I also eat healthy foods and do cardio as well as walking my dog 2 hours daily. However not everyone wants to be under 200 pounds. It doesn't matter how fit someone is there is nothing healthy about being 260 pounds of muscle so if I want to be that I don't mind using some select supplements to keep blood markers in range.

 

[method2madness]

2&1/2 months in and I'm only using 200mg. caffiene for pre workout except weekends when I train in the AM and use a Bang or Quake drink for a quick stim. Otherwise nothing but solid foods, solid training and only 150 grams protein per day from eggs and turkey. I weigh 191lbs. at 5'1 and stay lean(healthy) but not shredded year round. I haven't lost weight beyond the initial 5 lbs. at the start and my strength and overall energy and sense of well being are up. Also I look better when I'm not bloated with protein powder and drinks so I would say it's been a success! Maybe competition in 2021, it depends on family and finance situation.

 

[heavyhitter]

The only supps I use anymore is glutamine for guy health as I have IBS, digestive enzymes, caffeine tabs pre workout with cialis, protein powder, and karboload with eaas intra workout

 

[qbkilla]

Supplements aren't it but why would you be healthier dropping your 2 supps? Are they damaging? I am not stating they aren't a waste but I don't really get your logic. You just seem very anti-supps like they are all bad. What if you would have a vit d deficiency without taking it as a supplement? Obviously in a perfect world you could drop it and take in vitamin d through various food sources. But that still doesn't change the fact vit d supplementation could improve the health of certain people. Not stating it's the case for you for all I know your vit d levels are too high and if you dropped it you would be in fact healthier. You just seem to be very anti-supps which I don't get as there are 1000's of them and some can be beneficial depending upon ones blood markers/genetics. I just try to use common sense with stuff and sure the supplement industry on the whole is complete bullshit but it still doesn't mean certain supps can't aid in ones health.

Take me for example and I have a purpose for all of the 6 products I take. None of them are essential but most of them 100% assist my well being and/or health. Yes I could diet down to 180 pounds and eat very little but all nutritious food and be very healthy but I don't want to be that small. I want to be 260 pounds of solid muscle and when I am my blood pressure can be borderline high. My cholesterol profile can also be skewed at times. So for me to be 260 pounds full of muscle adding in certain supplements 100% improves my cholesterol and blood pressure as examples (there are more). It's not even guessing as I know they improve matters. I could use drugs from a doctor but what's the need when all I need to run are 2 products with things in such as citrus bergamot, allicin, olive leaf extract and hawthorn berry. None of which give me any side effects but do improve certain health markers.

Now if I had a bad issue with cholesterol, blood pressure etc I would 100% go straight to a doctor and be put on some proper drugs as fast as possible. But for some minor issues due to blasting aas certain supplements can be great to keep my health markers in range. I just don't get the all of nothing approach from your posts regards supps. It's a given I also eat healthy foods and do cardio as well as walking my dog 2 hours daily. However not everyone wants to be under 200 pounds. It doesn't matter how fit someone is there is nothing healthy about being 260 pounds of muscle so if I want to be that I don't mind using some select supplements to keep blood markers in range.

Not so much that supplements can be harmful physically, more so they create a false sense of health and allow us to ignore the things that matter. For example, say someone has psychological issues, and they just take a pill to stabilize their mood, they are now relying on that rather than addressing the issue.

Say Joe bodybuilder is taking 5g a week and is pushing 220lbs and his blood pressure is 160/95. Then he finds the perfect combination of supplements, and his blood pressure is now 130/70. Did he really solve his problem or is it being masked? If he didn't think he found the magic supplement combo, maybe he would have decided to cut down to 205lbs (less stress on his heart), drop his cycle down to 2g a week, clean up his diet a bit, and start doing cardio 5x a week.

But he was Able to find a combo of pills to check his blood pressure she he continued to abuse his body thinking it was ok.

Thats my main point. We want to look for a pill or powder to make us healthier that allows us to continue to do the things the made us unhealthy in the first place. I see alot of threads about supplements that claim to help the kidneys, those are the ones that I find the most dangerous. If someone is abusing gear, pushing bodyweight, pushing blood pressure to a point where the kidneys are compromised, they should really re-evalute their lifestyle. Thinking they found a herb that will save their kidneys and allow them to continue as is could be very dangerous IMO.

Another example could be caffeine, maybe the most popular supplement out there. Lots of people take it to get them through the day. But if they need caffeine to stay awake, id argue they are better off addressing the issue of why they are tired all day. Overtraining, working too many hours, not managing time and getting enough sleep, poor diet, too much stress, etc. The caffeine acts as a crutch.

Another one I see is when guys take deca to lube the joints so they can lift pain free. If someone has pain when lifting, say the shoulder for an example, id say they should change their workout programming. They could be over training, or maybe just at age 35 or 40, they just shouldn't be pushing heavy loads anymore and should focus on high rep work before they really tear something. Or maybe they have a legit injury that could he healed completely with surgery or physical therapy. But if they take deca to mask the pain, it could just become worse as they continue to abuse the joint and something could eventually tear.

 

[Rogue]

If your diets great it's not really gonna make any difference. Obviously there are many variables. If someone was taking in 200g protein from supplements they would need to replace that with whole food if they got rid of all their supps. Now for your intra aminos and carbs just make sure you eat well pre and post workout. I love intra aminos and carbs and they make a massive difference in regards to recovery. However if I dropped them and just had a good post workout meal (chicken, honey and rice for example) then I wouldn't really look any different for it. Although I do think it makes a difference for me but in the grand scheme it's not exactly 5+ pounds of solid muscle difference.

Now health supplements can be different especially if someone has certain issues. It's all obvious really but if someone was taking a few supps for blood pressure and dropped them all it would be no surprise if their bp started to rise again. Some supps are neeeded for some people and can be very useful. Although many guys take the kitchen sink when it comes to supplements. They get addicted to them in a sense and add more and more thinking they need them all. Fact is for many they could probably drop 70% of their supps and they would be no different just have a lot more spare cash in their pocket. Every person is different and for some their health supplements make a big difference to their blood markers and overall longetivity.

There only way to find out is to drop them and see. It all depends upon how many you are dropping. If it's just your intra carbs/aminos your recovery make take a hit but at the end of the day it won't make that much of a difference to the way you look/feel.

This! Could not be said better.
When I worked with Keith Klein he advocated the VERY same protocol the gains where VISIBLE.

 

[Elvia1023]

Not so much that supplements can be harmful physically, more so they create a false sense of health and allow us to ignore the things that matter. For example, say someone has psychological issues, and they just take a pill to stabilize their mood, they are now relying on that rather than addressing the issue.

Say Joe bodybuilder is taking 5g a week and is pushing 220lbs and his blood pressure is 160/95. Then he finds the perfect combination of supplements, and his blood pressure is now 130/70. Did he really solve his problem or is it being masked? If he didn't think he found the magic supplement combo, maybe he would have decided to cut down to 205lbs (less stress on his heart), drop his cycle down to 2g a week, clean up his diet a bit, and start doing cardio 5x a week.

But he was Able to find a combo of pills to check his blood pressure she he continued to abuse his body thinking it was ok.

Thats my main point. We want to look for a pill or powder to make us healthier that allows us to continue to do the things the made us unhealthy in the first place. I see alot of threads about supplements that claim to help the kidneys, those are the ones that I find the most dangerous. If someone is abusing gear, pushing bodyweight, pushing blood pressure to a point where the kidneys are compromised, they should really re-evalute their lifestyle. Thinking they found a herb that will save their kidneys and allow them to continue as is could be very dangerous IMO.

Another example could be caffeine, maybe the most popular supplement out there. Lots of people take it to get them through the day. But if they need caffeine to stay awake, id argue they are better off addressing the issue of why they are tired all day. Overtraining, working too many hours, not managing time and getting enough sleep, poor diet, too much stress, etc. The caffeine acts as a crutch.

Another one I see is when guys take deca to lube the joints so they can lift pain free. If someone has pain when lifting, say the shoulder for an example, id say they should change their workout programming. They could be over training, or maybe just at age 35 or 40, they just shouldn't be pushing heavy loads anymore and should focus on high rep work before they really tear something. Or maybe they have a legit injury that could he healed completely with surgery or physical therapy. But if they take deca to mask the pain, it could just become worse as they continue to abuse the joint and something could eventually tear.

I pretty much agree with everything you just stated. Although your earlier post I quoted didn't really sound as if this was the reasoning behind it. I have seen a lot of similar posts from you as well. I was actually surprised you were taking 2 supps as you regularly post they are essentially a waste of time. Although again what you state here is pretty much spot on and people do mask problems. However my point still stands in the sense that you can use diet, cardio and even supplements to aid in health. So whilst I completely agree about masking problems at the same time it's still working. With the same logic you could state cardio is masking bad cholesterol for some because if they didn't do it their HDL would be 10 points lower. You may argue cardio (or diet) and supplements are completely different but not really if they are doing the same thing to ones blood work. Obviously there are many factors why guys have health problems but as I always post their weight is a massive one. This all goes back to my point about not everyone wants to be smaller and lean and some want to look freaky. There is nothing healthy about bodybuilding and the bigger you get the more unhealthy it is. So if someone is really big it's about minimizing potential risks. Now if they are 320 pounds big year after year it doesn't really matter does it as they will die young. Everyone decides how much they are willing to risk in a sense.

Most of the things you mention tend to go back to ones goals in a sense. Most guys who want to be freaky big lift very heavy weights. Those heavy weights cause joint issues over time. Yes taking deca to mask the problem isn't ideal but the only real way they will stop the damage is to stop abusing their bodies in the gym and lower their bodyweight. The same for energy and your caffeine comment. I should add I 100% still agree with you though. Guys take too many stimulants and have no breaks and their sleep is poor etc etc etc. They should be addressing the areas you mention before popping more caffeine pills. However it can go back to the big thing as well. Pretty much all the big guys I know who are blasting gear (hgh) and moving up in weight struggle with energy at times... for many all through the day. Do they simply stop and start eating less and again it goes back to the let's get under 200 pounds and be healthy and feel great. So nothing you state is incorrect but when people have totally different goals it's hard to compare. Of course everyone should be smart and weigh less and not abuse drugs and hopefully live very long. But again what about the guys who want to be 250-300 pounds of muscle. I don't know your stats but I assume you don't weigh that much and you obviously don't want to look freaky big etc. So I don't really see anything wrong with using as many tools as possible to aid ones health and well being even if they are a 2 gram taking 280 pound bodybuilder. The most important thing is if the tools they are using work or not. Obviously someone popping 200 health supps per day is just over doing things but it doesn't mean a select few can't aid in their health.

There can also be a middleground and I think I am pretty much a good example of that. I don't weigh a crazy amount. I am not full of nasty side effects. I don't really mask health issues with supplements. I just have issues with HDL at times but also usually have low LDL and Trigs etc. My blood pressure is in range and I use supplements to keep it in range when I blast and start growing. I do have an addiction to preworkouts I will admit that but I pretty much don't take any more caffeine apart from pre workout most days. I also have breaks from stimulants every so often. So I just use me as an example because I probably do some of the things you post about above but I don't consider myself to be that bad if that makes sense.

It's all about limiting the damage and minimizing side effects. It may not be perfect a bodybuilder uses cardio and some supps when he is blasting 2 grams of gear and growing but what else can he do. Now some use huge doses and that's up to them but if their blood work is good and they use supps as well to keep it that way I don't really see the issue. Is it healthy using large doses of aas, taking various supps, training brutally hard and weighing loads... of course not but that's up to him.

All of the points you make just come back to basic intelligence and common sense. A prime example of that is anyone who has severe health issues from bodybuilding. You mention kidneys so we will go with that one. If someone who going into kidney failure and they pretty much carry on abusing themselves with toxic drugs and putting on weight then they are just an idiot. Some are addicted to things and they are stupid. If they think adding in some astragulus whilst they stay on 5 grams of gear is going to be fine you can't really help people like that. However it doesn't mean astragulus (or grape seed extract etc) aren't worth adding in if your GFR went down 5 to 10 points before 2 blood tests. It should go without stating that the person makes the right decisions in others areas to prevent possible future kidney damage. It doesn't make astragulus (etc etc) a bullshit supplement because some may mask problems with it's use.

 

[LK3]

cut back on the majority of sups mostly due to lack of availability
sod, glut, b12/complex are ones i would stay with if i could.
minerals like mg and zinc too
others used only when necessary.

 

[qbkilla]

I pretty much agree with everything you just stated. Although your earlier post I quoted didn't really sound as if this was the reasoning behind it. I have seen a lot of similar posts from you as well. I was actually surprised you were taking 2 supps as you regularly post they are essentially a waste of time. Although again what you state here is pretty much spot on and people do mask problems. However my point still stands in the sense that you can use diet, cardio and even supplements to aid in health. So whilst I completely agree about masking problems at the same time it's still working. With the same logic you could state cardio is masking bad cholesterol for some because if they didn't do it their HDL would be 10 points lower. You may argue cardio (or diet) and supplements are completely different but not really if they are doing the same thing to ones blood work. Obviously there are many factors why guys have health problems but as I always post their weight is a massive one. This all goes back to my point about not everyone wants to be smaller and lean and some want to look freaky. There is nothing healthy about bodybuilding and the bigger you get the more unhealthy it is. So if someone is really big it's about minimizing potential risks. Now if they are 320 pounds big year after year it doesn't really matter does it as they will die young. Everyone decides how much they are willing to risk in a sense.

Most of the things you mention tend to go back to ones goals in a sense. Most guys who want to be freaky big lift very heavy weights. Those heavy weights cause joint issues over time. Yes taking deca to mask the problem isn't ideal but the only real way they will stop the damage is to stop abusing their bodies in the gym and lower their bodyweight. The same for energy and your caffeine comment. I should add I 100% still agree with you though. Guys take too many stimulants and have no breaks and their sleep is poor etc etc etc. They should be addressing the areas you mention before popping more caffeine pills. However it can go back to the big thing as well. Pretty much all the big guys I know who are blasting gear (hgh) and moving up in weight struggle with energy at times... for many all through the day. Do they simply stop and start eating less and again it goes back to the let's get under 200 pounds and be healthy and feel great. So nothing you state is incorrect but when people have totally different goals it's hard to compare. Of course everyone should be smart and weigh less and not abuse drugs and hopefully live very long. But again what about the guys who want to be 250-300 pounds of muscle. I don't know your stats but I assume you don't weigh that much and you obviously don't want to look freaky big etc. So I don't really see anything wrong with using as many tools as possible to aid ones health and well being even if they are a 2 gram taking 280 pound bodybuilder. The most important thing is if the tools they are using work or not. Obviously someone popping 200 health supps per day is just over doing things but it doesn't mean a select few can't aid in their health.

There can also be a middleground and I think I am pretty much a good example of that. I don't weigh a crazy amount. I am not full of nasty side effects. I don't really mask health issues with supplements. I just have issues with HDL at times but also usually have low LDL and Trigs etc. My blood pressure is in range and I use supplements to keep it in range when I blast and start growing. I do have an addiction to preworkouts I will admit that but I pretty much don't take any more caffeine apart from pre workout most days. I also have breaks from stimulants every so often. So I just use me as an example because I probably do some of the things you post about above but I don't consider myself to be that bad if that makes sense.

It's all about limiting the damage and minimizing side effects. It may not be perfect a bodybuilder uses cardio and some supps when he is blasting 2 grams of gear and growing but what else can he do. Now some use huge doses and that's up to them but if their blood work is good and they use supps as well to keep it that way I don't really see the issue. Is it healthy using large doses of aas, taking various supps, training brutally hard and weighing loads... of course not but that's up to him.

All of the points you make just come back to basic intelligence and common sense. A prime example of that is anyone who has severe health issues from bodybuilding. You mention kidneys so we will go with that one. If someone who going into kidney failure and they pretty much carry on abusing themselves with toxic drugs and putting on weight then they are just an idiot. Some are addicted to things and they are stupid. If they think adding in some astragulus whilst they stay on 5 grams of gear is going to be fine you can't really help people like that. However it doesn't mean astragulus (or grape seed extract etc) aren't worth adding in if your GFR went down 5 to 10 points before 2 blood tests. It should go without stating that the person makes the right decisions in others areas to prevent possible future kidney damage. It doesn't make astragulus (etc etc) a bullshit supplement because some may mask problems with it's use.

Pretty much agree. For me its an easy choice to be smaller and healthier bc I don't have the genetics to be very large and impressive anyway lol. But for those with genetics who can look more freaky, its definatley tempting to push the limits. But yeah we pretty much agree. It's all about goals. Some also have more income so for them it makes more sense to spend say $200 a month on supplements then some college kid lol.

 

[Elvia1023]

Pretty much agree. For me its an easy choice to be smaller and healthier bc I don't have the genetics to be very large and impressive anyway lol. But for those with genetics who can look more freaky, its definatley tempting to push the limits. But yeah we pretty much agree. It's all about goals. Some also have more income so for them it makes more sense to spend say $200 a month on supplements then some college kid lol.

I don't have the genetics either but it's fun trying

 

[heavyhitter]

I don't have the genetics either but it's fun trying

I personally don’t have the structure to ever do well on a bodybuilding stage....but I can build up some pretty impressive size if I push drugs and eat like a fucking dump truck. I’m kind of a dusty hanshaw like that. I’ll never have the flow of frank zane....but like an art Atwood.....people are impressed when they meet me in person

 

[Elvia1023]

I personally don’t have the structure to ever do well on a bodybuilding stage....but I can build up some pretty impressive size if I push drugs and eat like a fucking dump truck. I’m kind of a dusty hanshaw like that. I’ll never have the flow of frank zane....but like an art Atwood.....people are impressed when they meet me in person

I am similar. I have never had any interest in competing but it would be pointless anyway as I don't have the genetics to do well. Although I tend to look much more impressive when I am stood next to someone in a pic as opposed to being alone. That's probably true for all tall guys who lift weights though. The opposite could be said for many people though. There are also guys who look great in pics but in real life they aren't that impressive. Some look incredible topless because of their genetics but you see them in real life and whilst they still look great they are surprisingly small. Whilst I can appreciate the way they look I am much more impressed with massive bodybuilders. Although the guys with the nice shape, good structure and pretty lines will pretty much always beat the massive freak on stage.

 

[qbkilla]

I think my genetics for structure are ok, but when I think "bad genetics I think"

Say 3 of us all run the same cycle, same diet, same training. We all put on 25lbs

Guy A.....15lbs muscle, 10lbs fat
Guy B.....12lbs muscle..13lbs fat
Guy C.....9lbs muscle 16lbs fat

I am guy C lol.