- Joined
- Apr 20, 2009
- Messages
- 6,729
Agree with pretty much most of what you said. Virtue signaling is a plague and it's almost not socially acceptable to not virtue signal in some settings. Example I could tell my friends I would never date a fat or muscular women, listen to hip hop, fat loss is easy, but I might get in hot water saying any in some work places as someone may get " offended"Here's an example reinforcing exactly what I typed above. But this is just not how things play out in terms of examining female mating decisions; it's virtue signalling. Looking at any human behaviour in which there is a heavy moralistic/religious component or a capacity for shame, you can no longer ask people what they desire because you'll get a dishonest response. The person or people in question may not even be aware of their own real preferences and engaged in a lot of self deception as well; they are not maliciously trying to mislead the person asking. This is why we examine their actual decisions to construct an idea of their preferences rather than simply asking them. Revealed preferences tell you much more than stated preferences.
I'm not trying to call out women specifically, this is a human tendency for a divergence between stated and revealed preferences. It's just that in this particular arena, they are far less honest with themselves or with anyone who asks what their actual preferences in men are. In other arenas beyond mate and romantic preferences, men might be far more dishonest with themselves or with people asking him a question. ("Do you cheat on your diet when prepping for contest?" what's his answer vs what did he actually do?)
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Yeah for a 5'9-5'11 guy 220 is definitely going to be too heavy. 175-200ish is probably optimal. Everything has diminishing returns when it comes to physical features and nothing is strictly linear; beard and tattoos will help but literally covered and tattooos and a beard down to your belly button is definitely negative. Same thing with muscles, there's a point where it becomes "too much". But you could even say this about natural features. A good strong jawline and chin is attractive, but some guys have freaky alien looking jaws and chins where it starts to look unattactive and horse-like. 6'4 or 6'5 even might be attractive, but anything beyond that probably starts to take points off for most women.
Now when it comes to tattoos, beards, muscles, or height, we can certainly look at outliers and see that even the guys who have these things at the extremes seem not to struggle with women. They are effectively (perhaps unconsciously) pursuing a strategy of marketing themselves to a niche. Think about the girls who are really into huge men's open guys, even though there are a small number of them, how do they compare in attractiveness compared to "regular" women who do not really like huge men's open bodybuilders? Look at Steve Kuclo's series of girlfriends and marriages for a salient example. Obviously he's a monster in the eyes of the majority of ladies, but the ladies who do prefer this look tend to be much fitter, more toned, and have more optimal WHRs than the average. And if that's what the bodybuilder is into specifically, it's not necessarily a bad thing for him to alienate all of the more "normal" women. This is just as true for men, of course. An enormous % of men like a nice firm C cup; but most men probably do not like a freakish 1200cc G cup implant outside of a minority of fetishists.
Also agree about extremes and bell shaped curves. A little muscle, a beard, some ink appeal to most girls. Being super muscular, having a beard touching your chest, having face tattoos or black out ink is going to turn alot off. Girls don't like extremes. We all like tiny girls and big boobs but we don't want anorexic or silicone triple D's