Do the B vitamins deplete each other?

[jimmy3024]

Was taking high dose (100-150mg) of B1 thiamine, and that’s it.

Does it deplete other vitamins / minerals?

I thought I read somewhere that it depletes magnesium and competes with other B vitamins.

My B12 level is 442 and considering injecting since it’s down from over 600, plus with all the added B12 in supps my true level is likely a lot lower.

 

[nothuman]

Yea it is possible that mega dosing some specific B vitamins can deplete other B vitamins. I'd only take the minimum necessary of each.

 

[plane]

Yes of course. You need magnesium for thiamine to function, you also need riboflavin. You basically answered your own question, what you read was correct.

 

[Doitagain]

Most of them share a common carrier mediated uptake system and therefore compete for absorption.
This becomes a problem only at high doses tho.

 

[Muay Thai]

Yes of course. You need magnesium for thiamine to function, you also need riboflavin. You basically answered your own question, what you read was correct.

and thiamine is better absorbed via sulbutiamine, b1 is a vitamin i firmly believe a lot of people are deficient in, I am one, people who have kidney problems ALMOST ALWAYS ARE

 

[plane]

and thiamine is better absorbed via sulbutiamine, b1 is a vitamin i firmly believe a lot of people are deficient in, I am one, people who have kidney problems ALMOST ALWAYS ARE

Definitely, I take 400mg thiamine HCL per day - I haven't noticed any ill effects so far - its been been over a year so far at this dosage. It's very interesting just how important a singulair nutrient can be

 

[Muay Thai]

Definitely, I take 400mg thiamine HCL per day - I haven't noticed any ill effects so far - its been been over a year so far at this dosage. It's very interesting just how important a singulair nutrient can be

bro and its fascinating to learn and dive deep, most just stop at what they discover here (which is probably elite level info compared to anywhere else on the internet comprehensively) but still, the info is really fun to learn and a lot of "wow" moments. im addicted literally to learning about the human body and everything that even has to do with itand far beyond ,its my panacea for AdHD

 

[pistonpump]

I've been using injectable b vitamins max-b1000 or something, it's veterinarian, didn't know this could be an issue. I can't really tell and I never tested levels to know if it's helping any

 

[fisther69]

I've been using injectable b vitamins max-b1000 or something, it's veterinarian, didn't know this could be an issue. I can't really tell and I never tested levels to know if it's helping any

Been using that for years!

 

[pistonpump]

Been using that for years!

How much are you dosing

 

[KillerStack]

Same is true for amino acids. For example BCAAs will deplete glutamine (If I remember correctly.) It's the reason nutrition experts caution against using large doses of singular aminos. Some research said that when all EAAs were supplied in "balanced ratios" (whatever that is) protein synthesis is peaked more even if the total dose of leucine was lower with some other product. I mean it used to be that BCAAs were supplied in a 2:1:1 ratio but now many sell them in a 20:1:1 ratio and some times they are marketed as EAA formulas because they included maybe 25 to 50mg of the other EAAs. I've been looking at different EAAs and most of the bodybuilding ones have like 6 grams of Leucine and 20mg of histidine or tryptophane, brands like Now Food Amino-9 look to have more balanced ratios.

 

[TheRoid]

Same is true for amino acids. For example BCAAs will deplete glutamine (If I remember correctly.) It's the reason nutrition experts caution against using large doses of singular aminos. Some research said that when all EAAs were supplied in "balanced ratios" (whatever that is) protein synthesis is peaked more even if the total dose of leucine was lower with some other product. I mean it used to be that BCAAs were supplied in a 2:1:1 ratio but now many sell them in a 20:1:1 ratio and some times they are marketed as EAA formulas because they included maybe 25 to 50mg of the other EAAs. I've been looking at different EAAs and most of the bodybuilding ones have like 6 grams of Leucine and 20mg of histidine or tryptophane, brands like Now Food Amino-9 look to have more balanced ratios.

Correct, 100%.
Most EAAs and pretty much all BCAAs products superloaded with Leu are plain silly.
"Leucine is the most anabolic Brah".
Too bad it doesn't work that way.
Stoichiometry, for Christ sake.
They sell supplements and are completely clueless.

 

[fisther69]

How much are you dosing

1/2 an ml every Saturday..was doing a full ml but my blood work shows I’m just over the maximum at 1/2 once a week

 

[Heath82]

What do y’all think about synthetics injectable vitamin b? And how would you dose it optimally? I’m deficient in b vitamins due to part of my ilium being removed

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I stopped taking BCAAs because it seemed like a waste of money. Over time, it seemed to do little but I kept taking them bc that was the word on the street. But I changed over to just a couple scoops of whey iso and seemed to improve recovery time over doing EAAs/BCAAs. I looked into it and it seems outside of a complete protein, BCAAs have far less effect on MPS. Now I just tell people to do whey and forget all the cocktails. Just keep it simple. Maybe add BCAA or not.

I notoriously overcomplicated everything. But you're better off keeping it loose and simple and let time and consistency do its work.

And once I looked into it, though, there is some evidence of this. So I don't consider it anecdotal any longer. I help mostly people over 40 trying to lose weight and keep muscle. Not bodybuilders. Anyway, here's some interesting info on whole protein + BCAAs that may be useful to you:


"In summary, a low dose of whey protein supplemented with leucine or all other essential amino acids was as effective as a complete protein (WHEY) in stimulating postprandial MPS; however only WHEY was able to sustain increased rates of MPS post-exercise and may therefore be most suited to increase exercise-induced muscle protein accretion."

Supplementation of a suboptimal protein dose with leucine or essential amino acids: effects on myofibrillar protein synthesis at rest and following resistance exercise in men - PubMed

Leucine is a nutrient regulator of muscle protein synthesis by activating mTOR and possibly other proteins in this pathway. The purpose of this study was to examine the role of leucine in the regulation of human myofibrillar protein synthesis (MPS). Twenty-four males completed an acute bout of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[TheRoid]

I stopped taking BCAAs because it seemed like a waste of money. Over time, it seemed to do little but I kept taking them bc that was the word on the street. But I changed over to just a couple scoops of whey iso and seemed to improve recovery time over doing EAAs/BCAAs. I looked into it and it seems outside of a complete protein, BCAAs have far less effect on MPS. Now I just tell people to do whey and forget all the cocktails. Just keep it simple. Maybe add BCAA or not.

I notoriously overcomplicated everything. But you're better off keeping it loose and simple and let time and consistency do its work.

And once I looked into it, though, there is some evidence of this. So I don't consider it anecdotal any longer. I help mostly people over 40 trying to lose weight and keep muscle. Not bodybuilders. Anyway, here's some interesting info on whole protein + BCAAs that may be useful to you:


"In summary, a low dose of whey protein supplemented with leucine or all other essential amino acids was as effective as a complete protein (WHEY) in stimulating postprandial MPS; however only WHEY was able to sustain increased rates of MPS post-exercise and may therefore be most suited to increase exercise-induced muscle protein accretion."

Supplementation of a suboptimal protein dose with leucine or essential amino acids: effects on myofibrillar protein synthesis at rest and following resistance exercise in men - PubMed

Leucine is a nutrient regulator of muscle protein synthesis by activating mTOR and possibly other proteins in this pathway. The purpose of this study was to examine the role of leucine in the regulation of human myofibrillar protein synthesis (MPS). Twenty-four males completed an acute bout of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I strongly advocate the use of a properly formulated EAAs product intra-workout. No actual "digestion" needed, so won't impair performance while sustaining MPS.
For any other moment of the day, you may find this one interesting:

Effects of Whey Protein Hydrolysate Ingestion on Postprandial Aminoacidemia Compared with a Free Amino Acid Mixture in Young Men

To stimulate muscle protein synthesis, it is important to increase the plasma levels of essential amino acids (EAA), especially leucine, by ingesting proteins. Protein hydrolysate ingestion can induce postprandial hyperaminoacidemia; however, it is unclear whether protein hydrolysate is...

www.mdpi.com

 

[totalrecomp]

Same is true for amino acids. For example BCAAs will deplete glutamine (If I remember correctly.) It's the reason nutrition experts caution against using large doses of singular aminos. Some research said that when all EAAs were supplied in "balanced ratios" (whatever that is) protein synthesis is peaked more even if the total dose of leucine was lower with some other product. I mean it used to be that BCAAs were supplied in a 2:1:1 ratio but now many sell them in a 20:1:1 ratio and some times they are marketed as EAA formulas because they included maybe 25 to 50mg of the other EAAs. I've been looking at different EAAs and most of the bodybuilding ones have like 6 grams of Leucine and 20mg of histidine or tryptophane, brands like Now Food Amino-9 look to have more balanced ratios.

@Mike Arnold

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I strongly advocate the use of a properly formulated EAAs product intra-workout. No actual "digestion" needed, so won't impair performance while sustaining MPS.
For any other moment of the day, you may find this one interesting:

Effects of Whey Protein Hydrolysate Ingestion on Postprandial Aminoacidemia Compared with a Free Amino Acid Mixture in Young Men

To stimulate muscle protein synthesis, it is important to increase the plasma levels of essential amino acids (EAA), especially leucine, by ingesting proteins. Protein hydrolysate ingestion can induce postprandial hyperaminoacidemia; however, it is unclear whether protein hydrolysate is...

www.mdpi.com

Good info. This would seem to support that WPH (hydrolysate) or EAAs even over WPI for intra is superior which makes perfect sense from a bioavailability standpoint. I'm going to try hydro intra for a while to see if this solves my "where's the beef" BCAA frustrations.

 

[TheRoid]

Good info. This would seem to support that WPH (hydrolysate) or EAAs even over WPI for intra is superior which makes perfect sense from a bioavailability standpoint. I'm going to try hydro intra for a while to see if this solves my "where's the beef" BCAA frustrations.

I'd personally use hydro immediately post-workout, there's still a bit of actual digestion needed (they're always only partially hydrolyzed). Still interesting how even with the same amount of EAAs provided, whey hydro caused a higher blood level of the essentials. The NEAAs clearly play a role here.