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Do we need to stuff our faces to gain mass?

bigdog123

Banned
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
629
People are always saying to gain mass you need to eat, eat, eat.

Sometimes upwards to 6000-7000 calories per day.

Me personally I find anything much over 4,500 for any period of time and I become totally disinterested in food, lethargic and bloated.

Going back 3 years I weighed 225 and was stuffing in 5000 calories daily.

Now I eat nearer 4000 calories daily and am 15lb heavier - at the same body fat.

The key difference is that I am now a good 15% stronger on all major lifts. Bench press is up around 40lb, rows 50lb and squat 60lb.

So my theory is that the key driver in muscle size is a gain in strength in most major exercises (for a decent rep range, say 6-15 reps) - and not necessarily a major bout of overeating for a number of years.

I think one needs an excess of calories, but maybe 200-300 more than necessary and not just huge food intake which ultimately puts the scale up but does it lead to more muscle in all cases if not also accompanied by an increase in strength?

Two guys - one who eats 3500 calories a day but adds 10% to all his lifts in 12 months and another guy who lifts the same week in, week out but eats 5000 calories per day. The first guy will be more muscular.

Eat when you`re hungry - keep protein high, carbs moderate and good healthy fats. Forget the scale. Beat the log book weekly and add more muscle tissue. Simple.

Oh and I upped my dose from 1300mg to 2000mg per week.

All the pros that say `I gained 15lb this off season as I ate more chicken, or I ate 7 meals instead of 6 per day` - bullshit.

Two things lead to more mass - 1. More AAS/HGH/slin etc and 2. an accompanying increase in strength caused by the increase in AAS.
 
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I would also like to hear some responses.

but what about 'hardgainers', all the time once they start eating heaps then they start gaining.
 
I agree and disagree with the original post.

In order to gain extra muscle, the human body will require more calories. To what extent those calories go is very individualistic. If a person who maintains a weight with 3,000 calories then increases to 6,000 calories is only asking to get fat, period.

I agree that the human body on average does need 200-300+ calories above maintenance to obtain more muscle.

You can take all the drugs in the world but if your diet is not in check, then you are wasting time and money.
 
either you up the calories or you up the dosage to make more use of the same amount of calories.

or you do both and get the best of both worlds.
 
6-7000 calories for who? the amount of calories has more to do with your current size, give that many cals to someone 160-170 thats just gonna fatten them up, a little mathematics and calculating will get you numbers closer to whats appropriate for an individual, usually based of age, sex, LBM, etc...
You cant just throw out arbitrary numbers and think oh well that ought to work.
Also your macro break down per meal and meals divided into total calories will determine how much you eat per meal.
It takes some figuring out but theres some forumulas out there that can help narrow it down.
 
well there are differant approaches.

you can try to eat just over maintainance and put on little-no bodyfat but risk only putting on say 80% of the muscle you could have.

or you can eat more and be willing to put on a LITTLE extra bodyfat to make sure you put on as much muscle as possible. then get rid of fat.

i personally prefer the later approach until i reach a certain size, differant strokes for differant folkes
 
I think a lot of people use bulking as an excuse to overeat. You should base your bulking calorie intake based on whatever your maintenance intake is + a reasonable factor. If your maintenance is 4000 Cal (a very big person), you could bulk very conservatively with minimal fat gain with let's say 4,250 Cal and maybe go as high as 5,000 Cal, but I would think you'd gain excessive amounts of fat at 1,000 Cal above maintenance. Thus, guys eating 6-7k Cal per day over maint are surely overeating.
 
I'm a huge believer in the eat when hungry, eat untill full approach,(read early on that Phill preaches this and made instant sense to me) I went into quite a heavy blast this time lots of tren 10iu gh pre workout with 6-8 iu slin and appetite first 4 weeks was insane. Some days I was in the 6-7000 calorie range, some days only 4000(more were higher) I grew like I've never grown before, I'm over 30lb up but bodyfat has increased very little. Appetite going down now so I'm leaning out a little again but still getting stronger. Think it was such a shock to the body suddenly being on all them drugs after a long time cruising, and all that food after a long time dieting it just soaked it all up. Some days I was going through a loaf of bread and jar of pnb on top of my bodybuilders diet. I just had insane cravings for calorie dense food like I hadn't eaten for a week or some shit. I never knew the body could grow so quick. :eek: I applied mostly what I learnt from pm and it pissed all over my first cycle. There was a time I'd be scared to eat that much food in one go or skip meals when not hungry, not anymore. The body knows better than we do how much food it needs.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
 
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6-7000 calories for who? the amount of calories has more to do with your current size, give that many cals to someone 160-170 thats just gonna fatten them up, a little mathematics and calculating will get you numbers closer to whats appropriate for an individual, usually based of age, sex, LBM, etc...
You cant just throw out arbitrary numbers and think oh well that ought to work.
Also your macro break down per meal and meals divided into total calories will determine how much you eat per meal.
It takes some figuring out but theres some forumulas out there that can help narrow it down.

Im in the upper 270's right now and if i ate 6000-7000 cals a day i would surely gain fat unless i was running a shit load of gear and HGH. My cals fulcuate as needed , if im hungry i eat if not then i dont if its been a couple hrs and im not realy to hungry then i'll at least eat my protein portions. My cals range from 3500ish-5000 depending on what im doing and what i did the day before.
I know a guy thats very fast metabolism in the 180 pound range and in order for him to gain he eats some 3500-4000 cals as a base diet then throws in a big value meal from McD's or taco bell and eats a peanut butter/poptart sandwhich every night before bed

The best things anybody can do short of hiring a trainer (which is a fantastic idea) is figure out what they need and not worry about what sombody else eats
 
peanut butter and poptart sammich....
 
Theres a guy he holds the bench press record for all natural he is some black guy i dodnt know his name but hes a cool cat he says he only eats 2 meals a day it helps slow his matabolism and keep his weight

I do think it's easier to gain on 2 or 3 meals for me at least. It's not for the reason he says though as metabolism has been proven not to slow down just because you eat less meals. It because you get so fucking hungry you could eat a horse lol

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
 
Damnit you do not have to be a big guy to maintain at 4000 cal. You just need to be activie. I am surprised that so many are baffled by this
 
It depends what are you doing, how your daily life looks like etc hell someone might burn more calories in one day at work if he is doing heavy labor work or is on feet all day long than someone his entire week of training.
For me personally i need at least 4500-5000cals to grow, but I know guys whose are bigger than me and grows on 3-4 meals probably 3500cals or even less.
 
Iv had a few experiences with this and I've done both ways, it did seem like when I went all out bulk mode and ate 1500-2000 cals over surplus I gained a tad bit more muscle , I gained quite a bit of fat if I were to guess id say an extra 40 pounds of fat, but I also gained ALOT more strength , sure leverage helped , but even when I dieted down for my show I kept all of it except my bench which only went down 10 pounds for a one rep max! I do prefer to slowly increase my calories by 300-600 depending on how much assistance im getting and how my training is going , I prefer to look good year round and I dont plan on stepping on stage or competing in a powerlifting comp so im fine if im sacrificing looks for strength/a tad bit more muscle.
 
Oh and I upped my dose from 1300mg to 2000mg per week.

Two things lead to more mass - 1. More AAS/HGH/slin etc and 2. an accompanying increase in strength caused by the increase in AAS.

Bingo!!! I think age is a factor also.
 
Nope, you really don't need that much at all. The guys who put away huge amounts of food tend to be bodybuilders who live and die by the scale... who will in the off season gain 50lbs but is completely deluded as to how much of that is muscle mass....then once hes spent months burning off all the fat is only about 10lbs heavier... The only guys who really need massive calorie intakes are guys who are doing a lot of physical activity day to day... I once had a job that had me doing a lot of that and and 4500+kcal a day I couldnt keep weight on (great for getting lean though while still being able to eat a fair bit though.) Whereas now, I only need around 3000-3500 to support growth and my metabolism is definitely at the faster end of the scale.
 
I am not huge by this board's standards at 6'1" 220 but I eat about 4600 calories a day for my structured diet and then I throw in some other things sometimes. However, I work as a mechanic so I am active all day. Activity level plays a big part.
 
Some of you guys just don't get it. It's about pattern development, not about eating a little more, a lot more, upping the dose, etc.

You need to see what's going on with your body at the moment.

"Okay, so I'm 250lbs @ 10% bodyfat. What am I doing to maintain this? What amount of food and drugs am I consuming? What's my training like?"

Answer that first.

Second, you need to choose one or two of the variables. The first two variables should almost always be food and training.

"How do I get stronger in the proper rep ranges for growth? How will I recover from training better?"

If you're eating 8oz of protein and 1 cup of rice per food meal... Bump it to 10oz of protein and 1.5 cups. If you're drinking 50g shakes, work your way up to 75g.

Follow the pattern for a while. See where it takes you in terms of strength, bodyfat, size, etc. If it doesn't work, and you can fit more food in, go for it. Are you training intensly enough? Try harder. If you're eating and eating and training and training, then give yourself a bump on the dosage of gear.

It's not rocket science. Most of the guys that are always making improvements follow the same damn patterns all the time. A few alterations to the pattern and BOOM. The gains keep coming.

There are other variables, but that's the meat and potatoes.

Look at Dusty and Shelby Starnes. They're OBSESSIVE over their diet and training. They embarass people on stage.
 

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