Do we really need to much protein?

[kingpeon]

Once again, if it works for you, so be it.

Eat 80 grams of protein a day.

Myself?

I enjoy 300 grams a day. Yes, I am tight. Toight like a tiger.

 

[buselmo]

A week? Holy shit (no pun intended) thats nuts bro...no wonder why you feel like shit (still no pun intended)...I never heard of someone going a week? Hell I cant even go 3-4 hours without dropping one off....Have you gone yet bro? I feel for you.

dropped a huge deuce after eating some good old KFC krispy strips and a ton of coleslaw and biscuits
but thanks for asking bro ...

 

[mike913]

I just got done with a low protein, high carb, low fat diet experiment. Meh. It worked, I gained muscle. But I got also fat and couldn't lose it until I went back to: Protein .9 to 1gm per lb. High fat, very low carbs. Look and feel tons better in a matter of days. No insulin levels all over the place.

I think if the protein is lower, as long as you replace the calories with something that works for you (either carbs or fat) you'll still gain or retain.

It also feels like when the metabolism is working better, drugs work better too. JMO.

Personally I consider anything under 1 gram of protien per lb. of body weight to be a "low protein" diet. So I'd say you're still on a "low" protein diet (compared to the traditional 1.5g to 2g of protein per lb.). Gotta do what works for you.

Also, I'd say eating in the range I'm talking is probably "healthier" in the long run and it makes me feel better. Maybe all the doctors that say eating an extremely high protein diet (350g +) is bad for you in the long run are actually correct...I don't know.

 

[Moen]

Well the high protein intake being safe (for the kidneys) stems from fals bro-science deductions. I'll give you the first one that pops up:

Question: Is Eating a High Protein Diet Damaging To Your Kidney Health?
Very often I am asked if eating the amount of protein required of a bodybuilding diet will lead to kidney damage. This FAQ will answer this question and hopefully put all of your fears to rest.

Answer: Fact is that there are no studies that have ever shown a high protein diet causing kidney damage in persons with normal kidney function. Only people who already have a pre-existing kidney condition need to be concerned with keeping their protein in check.

Can you see the reasoning error already? There are no studies indicating kidney damage in persons with normal kidney function. DEDUCTION: we can eat a lot of protein safely.

A bit of a far fetched (not to say downright moronic) deduction to make don't you think?


Problem is that in this industry a lot of these deductions are being made.

Another one: carbohydrates are 'not essential', therefore I need not eat them. (why would you if they are not essential )

Wrong again: carbohydrates are not essential because the body can make them on it's own (via gluceneogenesis), while it can't make protein and fat.

the list goes on trust me. Sometimes I wished they'd even make the abstracts on Pubmed hidden for public access.

 

[Moen]

I left bit's and pieces out to make the post not overly long but I've changed my mind since someone will ask anyway.

On the protein and kidneys: the studies using bodybuilding intakes of protein are... just not being done. This is NOT to say that eating boatloads of protein is harmful, at this stage we simply don't know (in neither direction).

And the 'non essential carbohydrates' simply refers to the body's ability to make it (no more, no less), not NECESSARILY to you not needing to eat it. Of course you wouldn't die if never again a carb entered your mouth, but that's not the point here.

 

[werfewgrt]

i'm seriously thinking of quitting all this protein bullshit... and i'm kind of in the reverse situation you're in...
during ramadhan, i quit training (every fucking year i say i'll push myself to go to the gym but... meh) and would probably eat 3000 or more cals per day of mostly carbs and fat, protein wouldn't exceed 50 grams per day... yeah i got fat, yeah i lost muscle, but i was eating way over maintenance, off gear, and not training... but, i wasn't bloated, i felt great, i felt... normal... i guess.
last week i started going to the gym and got back on my no carb diet and upped the protein to about 220 grams, lots of fat and veggies...
I feel like absolute shit... not tired or anything, but my stomach is just going crazy... it's been a week since i had my last bowel movement and i just don't feel "ok"...

dunno if there's something in the air these days, or if it's because i did a 180 on my eating habbits... dunno... all i know is that i'm not comfortable with all that protein (especially that all of it is coming from beef and eggs right now) and i'm bringing down to 150 and keeping it there... will report back in a couple of weeks on what happens...

and just so you know... same thing happened once i worked with other people who put me on over 250 grams of protein (up to 310 grams)... severe constipation and an overall feeling of killing myself

That's what I've been telling everyone. IT (RIDICULOUSLY HIGH PROTEIN CONSUMPTION) WAS PUSHED BY THE SUPPLEMENT COMPANIES SIMPLY TO MAKE MORE MONEY.

Is eating too much protein harmful? Yes yes yes.
What are the 3 main things that kill your kidneys over time. High BP, Protein, Diuretics

 

[werfewgrt]

Though if steroids increase protein synthesis you might need more...

Your body synthesizes more protein in less time, but it does not mean that you actually need more

 

[warrior504th]

i'm seriously thinking of quitting all this protein bullshit... and i'm kind of in the reverse situation you're in...
during ramadhan, i quit training (every fucking year i say i'll push myself to go to the gym but... meh) and would probably eat 3000 or more cals per day of mostly carbs and fat, protein wouldn't exceed 50 grams per day... yeah i got fat, yeah i lost muscle, but i was eating way over maintenance, off gear, and not training... but, i wasn't bloated, i felt great, i felt... normal... i guess.
last week i started going to the gym and got back on my no carb diet and upped the protein to about 220 grams, lots of fat and veggies...
I feel like absolute shit... not tired or anything, but my stomach is just going crazy... it's been a week since i had my last bowel movement and i just don't feel "ok"...

dunno if there's something in the air these days, or if it's because i did a 180 on my eating habbits... dunno... all i know is that i'm not comfortable with all that protein (especially that all of it is coming from beef and eggs right now) and i'm bringing down to 150 and keeping it there... will report back in a couple of weeks on what happens...

and just so you know... same thing happened once i worked with other people who put me on over 250 grams of protein (up to 310 grams)... severe constipation and an overall feeling of killing myself

For you, at least a part of it was the high fats. That'll constipate me every time. Gotta get tons of fiber in.

 

[warrior504th]

I struggle to believe a basic macronutrient causes organ failure unless in absolutely absurd amounts ie a vast majority of your calories. I've never seen anything to prove it would, either, other than pub med abstracts in which the full text doesn't match the abstract.

Regardless, we have two people who lost weight and one gained fat with low protein. Also, yes there is little downside that we know of, as gluconeogenesis from protein as a primary energy source is pretty inefficient. The point being there are a ton of uncontrolled factors, and I don't see how ANY conclusion could be drawn thus far in favor of this practice from info in the thread.
But I do like the idea. Too few people are willing to break the norm these days and question given but untwst

Yes I think the 2.5-3g per lb is over the top. I personally never break 1.5g... but not for fear of health issues.

I did like the idea, though, brad posted about carbs and protein sparing benefits.

 

[warrior504th]

Also, its important to remember that while a long term diet of 80% cals in protein or triple your weight will cause damage, but so will fats or carbs in these amounts. This is not a protein issue. This is an issue of not being absurd and extreme.

 

[mike913]

Also, its important to remember that while a long term diet of 80% cals in protein or triple your weight will cause damage, but so will fats or carbs in these amounts. This is not a protein issue. This is an issue of not being absurd and extreme.

good point. simply people should do what works for them, but always be conscious of your overall health.

 

[fade]

Well the high protein intake being safe (for the kidneys) stems from fals bro-science deductions. I'll give you the first one that pops up:

Question: Is Eating a High Protein Diet Damaging To Your Kidney Health?
Very often I am asked if eating the amount of protein required of a bodybuilding diet will lead to kidney damage. This FAQ will answer this question and hopefully put all of your fears to rest.

Answer: Fact is that there are no studies that have ever shown a high protein diet causing kidney damage in persons with normal kidney function. Only people who already have a pre-existing kidney condition need to be concerned with keeping their protein in check.

Can you see the reasoning error already? There are no studies indicating kidney damage in persons with normal kidney function. DEDUCTION: we can eat a lot of protein safely.

A bit of a far fetched (not to say downright moronic) deduction to make don't you think?


Problem is that in this industry a lot of these deductions are being made.

Another one: carbohydrates are 'not essential', therefore I need not eat them. (why would you if they are not essential )

Wrong again: carbohydrates are not essential because the body can make them on it's own (via gluceneogenesis), while it can't make protein and fat.

the list goes on trust me. Sometimes I wished they'd even make the abstracts on Pubmed hidden for public access.

**broken link removed**
Lyle seems to be pretty knowledgeable on most things nutrition-related.

Kidney function

A common criticism of high protein intakes/diets is the concern that they are damaging to the kidneys. This belief seems to stem from the fact that, in individuals with preexisting kidney damage, protein intake often has to be reduced to prevent further development of the disease. Incorrectly, this has been turned around to suggest that high-protein intakes are damaging to the kidneys (1).

There is at best a weak case to be made for a risk of high protein intakes on kidney function; quite in fact, some research suggesting a beneficial effect of higher protein intakes on kidney function (2). Simply put, the adaptations to kidney function that are often cited as indicating ‘strain’ or damage are more likely to simply be normal adaptive effects of varying protein intake (1).

Unfortunately, very little research has directly examined the impact of high protein intakes on kidney function in athletes. One study examined the impact of 2.8 g/kg protein on the kidney function of bodybuilders, no negative effect was seen (3). To my knowledge, higher intakes have not been studied.

Empirically, it’s worth considering that athletes have been habitually consuming large amounts of protein for at least several decades without any reported increase in the incidence of kidney problems. If such a problem were going to occur, it seems likely that it would have shown up by now. While this certainly doesn’t prove that high protein intakes aren’t potentially detrimental to kidney function, the data in support of that idea would seem to be lacking both from a scientific and real-world point of view.

Interestingly, while it’s always been stated that high dietary protein intakes increases fluid requirements, this idea appears to have originated from a military study examining nitrogen balance under conditions of water and energy restriction (1). There is no indication that individuals who are sufficiently hydrated need to go out of their way to increase fluid intake when they are consuming large amounts of protein.

 

[HVYW8]

Theres a book I read called power eating. It is a good read and talks about the controversy of protein in a diet. Three was a study conducted in which the majority of people who followed high protein diets usually became overweight. Now I am sure there was alot of other shit that they where eating as well but the moral of the story was that high protein isnt necessary as your body processes it better at around .8 grm/lb. It also states that it is hard to convince a strength gainer that they do not need so much protein as it has been embedded in past readings and diets. I myself being one of them. lol.

 

[deadwrong]

dropped a huge deuce after eating some good old KFC krispy strips and a ton of coleslaw and biscuits
but thanks for asking bro ...

Nothing like some good ole fast food to move the bowels.

Id say its safe to say that if after increasing protein you go a week without poopin then your body cant handle that amount of protein.

 

[MrDeflation]

any examples of a "low protein" diet?

 

[Diet]

Sipping aminos during the day would help if you were on a very low protein diet.

Unless you are having an adverse reaction to protein there really is no good reason to keep it low (other than cost or taste) that I can think of. It won't damage you. Do what works for you. Personally I take in meat with every meal as I like protein much more than I like the other macronutrients.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Anything less than 200g, I lose muscle.
250-300g, I can maintain and grow slowly.
350g, I really improve my size, shape, and strength.
400-450g, I'm in hyper gaining mode.

I've noticed this rough pattern for 10 years.

 

[Moen]

**broken link removed**
Lyle seems to be pretty knowledgeable on most things nutrition-related.

He says the same as me, we don't have the data and we never will neither, who the heck would want to put money in a study following protein pumping bodybuilder's kidney functioning over several years?

Not to mention that no researcher is stupid enough to believe that only massive amounts of protein are going in

 

[warrenpeace]

My body does better on a low fat, moderate carb, mod/high protein diet. I've done the pro/fat diets with trace carbs, and though I felt OK on it once my body adjusted, the sewer system wasn't exactly operating at full function. I couldn't keep it up for long.

 

[GaJoe]

Anything less than 200g, I lose muscle.
250-300g, I can maintain and grow slowly.
350g, I really improve my size, shape, and strength.
400-450g, I'm in hyper gaining mode.

I've noticed this rough pattern for 10 years.

I seem to react the same....I always back off when I'm resting and kill the protein while bulking or pre-contest....I've been able to "grow" into shows like that.. Expensive to eat like that all the time and i.m.o. unless you are really trying to move up a weight class or 3 then there is no need..