Do you always have goals with training?

[qbkilla]

Not sure what the issue is with your elbow, but if it's tendinitis related look for a theraband flex bar. They have movements specifically for elbow pain and tendinitis. I could not grip a 2.5 pound weight and lift it. I was able to use tb500 to help as well but the theraband was a huge factor in recovery.

I get slight flare ups still but I can train around them, before there wasn't many upperbody lifts I could do without excruciating pain.

That thing healed my tennis elbow then golfers elbow....I hate using it but it works

 

[kadafi2]

Should a bodybuilder get stronger?
Of course.

Building muscle increases your potential for strength, and over time that potential will be expressed as increased load on the bar. But that’s something that unfolds over months and years — not session to session.

I don’t believe numbers need to increase every workout.

I train with a target rep range where I want the set to fail. I then use whatever load is required at that moment to reach that failure point with the highest possible level of effort. That’s it.

I don’t worry about what I lifted in the past.
I don’t chase personal bests.
I don’t care if today’s load is lighter than last time.

All I care about is maximum effort, clean execution, and hitting the desired rep range

If you do that consistently, something inevitable happens:
eventually, you’ll need more load to reach the same reps.

That’s how strength should increase — as a by-product, not a target.
A side effect of hard, well-structured training.

I see too many bodybuilders stall their progress by obsessing over log book numbers and forcing load or reps from one session to the next.

I became a far better bodybuilder — and built far more muscle — when PRs stopped being the goal.

As always, these are just my observations and how I train.
The aim here isn’t to tell you what to do — just to encourage some critical thinking about your own approach

View attachment 244871

Credit to Matt Tofton

It's strange to read this after you casually posted your max bp, s, and dl a while back. You're strong as hell, I suspect one of the strongest here, so you've built a strength "base." But someone who's twice as weak as you should probably be chasing numbers. What I'm saying is that damn strong guys talk about "not chasing numbers," but it seems to me that if they hadn't built up their former strength, their physiques wouldn't be as big.

 

[Cv215]

After over 20 years of going to the gym. My goal is to just get in the gym.

 

[Mufasa123]

I always have a goal and plan. Sometimes it's maintenance. It is occasionally/rarely period of just enjoyment or fun doing exercises I like just to get in quick and do something. That's still a plan - might be driven by other heavy life commitments or just a down/recovery period. Most often it's a plan for progress based on where I am now, and where I want to be after a period (might be 2-3 sub periods between beginning/end too). Sometimes it requires adjustment, that's fine too.

When you are an untrained total novice you can walk in, do random shit and improve (not optimal but everything works at this stage). If your basis is the couch, this gym thing is very disruptive and will drive adaptation. Once one advances, specificity and planning for progress is needed. We "train" anything in life with the goal of improvement. Going in, doing random shit, and expecting to maximize a specific non random response or adaptation for it - is not a plan, it's a fool's strategy.

 

[Sectør]

I usually have some combination of short +
Long term goal

The long term goal usually being:
I want to add “X” lbs of muscle within 1-2 years and bring up “x” lagging muscle group and improve overall details, while being leaner or similar leanness

The shorter term goal is usually something to the effect of trying to set PRs while not getting injured, and having fun with the training. I think enjoying the training is the most important in this group, everything else usually follows suit but if you’re going into the gym everyday and not enjoying it, or aren’t loooking forward to your next workout then you probably need to change something

 

[Josefein421]

Should a bodybuilder get stronger?
Of course.

Building muscle increases your potential for strength, and over time that potential will be expressed as increased load on the bar. But that’s something that unfolds over months and years — not session to session.

I don’t believe numbers need to increase every workout.

I train with a target rep range where I want the set to fail. I then use whatever load is required at that moment to reach that failure point with the highest possible level of effort. That’s it.

I don’t worry about what I lifted in the past.
I don’t chase personal bests.
I don’t care if today’s load is lighter than last time.

All I care about is maximum effort, clean execution, and hitting the desired rep range

If you do that consistently, something inevitable happens:
eventually, you’ll need more load to reach the same reps.

That’s how strength should increase — as a by-product, not a target.
A side effect of hard, well-structured training.

I see too many bodybuilders stall their progress by obsessing over log book numbers and forcing load or reps from one session to the next.

I became a far better bodybuilder — and built far more muscle — when PRs stopped being the goal.

As always, these are just my observations and how I train.
The aim here isn’t to tell you what to do — just to encourage some critical thinking about your own approach


Credit to Matt Tofton

I personally came up when Dante was still training people and got to train under him. I followed everyone on IM and learned of Dr Scott, Dusty, Justin and JP. Those guys were exploding in growth and also training the hardest smashing the log book every week. The epitome of DC training IMO. I drifted to powerlifting for many years so obviously numbers and progressive overload drive that training. Maybe bc I was so young when I found IM/Dante that I just really took to those principles but I stand by basically everything Dante wrote and love JP's training now. If I could do that at 42 safely I would. Actually it is the CNS demand I think more than anything.

The biggest guys ever have always been the strongest. The guys progressing the fastest physique wise are always progressing in strength the fastest. I think there are outliers and other also effective ways to train but the gold standard will be intense progressive overload as frequently as recoverable... in my opinion.

Even now using more volume and Mountain Dog programs and such... I still keep a log book even if only out of habit but do look back and have exercises I gauge strength by... smith incl, deadlift variations, 1 arm db row, floor skullscrushers, etc. The goal is to always beat what I did last time even if overall not on a single set.

Sorry that got long and rambling. More than one way to skin a cat and as Justin says "All training works.". Whatever someone enjoys and can adhere to most is best id say.

 

[traininsane11]

I personally came up when Dante was still training people and got to train under him. I followed everyone on IM and learned of Dr Scott, Dusty, Justin and JP. Those guys were exploding in growth and also training the hardest smashing the log book every week. The epitome of DC training IMO. I drifted to powerlifting for many years so obviously numbers and progressive overload drive that training. Maybe bc I was so young when I found IM/Dante that I just really took to those principles but I stand by basically everything Dante wrote and love JP's training now. If I could do that at 42 safely I would. Actually it is the CNS demand I think more than anything.

The biggest guys ever have always been the strongest. The guys progressing the fastest physique wise are always progressing in strength the fastest. I think there are outliers and other also effective ways to train but the gold standard will be intense progressive overload as frequently as recoverable... in my opinion.

Even now using more volume and Mountain Dog programs and such... I still keep a log book even if only out of habit but do look back and have exercises I gauge strength by... smith incl, deadlift variations, 1 arm db row, floor skullscrushers, etc. The goal is to always beat what I did last time even if overall not on a single set.

Sorry that got long and rambling. More than one way to skin a cat and as Justin says "All training works.". Whatever someone enjoys and can adhere to most is best id say.

Especially your last bit about it all working I completely agree just for reference that what I posted was posted originally by IFBB pro Matt Tofton I just thought it was relevant to this thread

I always have and still do use progressive overload/stimulus and I think it has massive nuance to how it’s actually used

I do think overall as long as you’re training somewhat hard and consistently that’s all that matters I’ve seen so many different guys train so many different ways some absolute scientists of the minutia and optimal but barely look like they train and some just doing whatever they want and massive the ONLY real difference as always - genetics

Sadly as much as we look to optimise absolutely everything (unless you’re way off prior) I’m starting think it makes single digit % difference it literally all is genetic response and consistency over time

 

[qbkilla]

I personally came up when Dante was still training people and got to train under him. I followed everyone on IM and learned of Dr Scott, Dusty, Justin and JP. Those guys were exploding in growth and also training the hardest smashing the log book every week. The epitome of DC training IMO. I drifted to powerlifting for many years so obviously numbers and progressive overload drive that training. Maybe bc I was so young when I found IM/Dante that I just really took to those principles but I stand by basically everything Dante wrote and love JP's training now. If I could do that at 42 safely I would. Actually it is the CNS demand I think more than anything.

The biggest guys ever have always been the strongest. The guys progressing the fastest physique wise are always progressing in strength the fastest. I think there are outliers and other also effective ways to train but the gold standard will be intense progressive overload as frequently as recoverable... in my opinion.

Even now using more volume and Mountain Dog programs and such... I still keep a log book even if only out of habit but do look back and have exercises I gauge strength by... smith incl, deadlift variations, 1 arm db row, floor skullscrushers, etc. The goal is to always beat what I did last time even if overall not on a single set.

Sorry that got long and rambling. More than one way to skin a cat and as Justin says "All training works.". Whatever someone enjoys and can adhere to most is best id say.

Have you tried doing dc training and rotating with a higher volume type training? I recall in a past thread alot of guys were doing that to get best of both worlds. Dc training till you feel beat up...then do some higher rep more volume type training for a period. A very basic type of periodization I guess you'd call it

 

[pesty4077]

Have you tried doing dc training and rotating with a higher volume type training? I recall in a past thread alot of guys were doing that to get best of both worlds. Dc training till you feel beat up...then do some higher rep more volume type training for a period. A very basic type of periodization I guess you'd call it

Dante recommends higher reps in his training for older guys. Example, first set 15 to 20, then second, then third.

 

[qbkilla]

Dante recommends higher reps in his training for older guys. Example, first set 15 to 20, then second, then third.

Yeah, this is what im doing. 20-30rp for most movements. Still is brutal if you control each rep. My favorite part is 3 workouts a week is more time to rack up steps = ability to eat more food while staying lean.

 

[Josefein421]

Have you tried doing dc training and rotating with a higher volume type training? I recall in a past thread alot of guys were doing that to get best of both worlds. Dc training till you feel beat up...then do some higher rep more volume type training for a period. A very basic type of periodization I guess you'd call it

This is pretty much what I do. like you said a periodization of sorts. When one gets boring or it it gets fresh to switch for a bit and give my body/CNS a break from each.

Dante recommends higher reps in his training for older guys. Example, first set 15 to 20, then second, then third.

Everyone always talks rep ranges with DC training. You could be 24 and train in the 20-30RP rep range and make just as great of progress as the 15-20RP range. Injuries come from not keeping form standardized and getting a little too loose slinging weight to beath the log book. But then you didnt really beat it if you altered form for assistance. The over use/connective tissue/joint concerns are there for any program and using higher reps but it seems only DC gets the rep as being injury prone.

Sorry, tangent. I know you didnt say that I was just thinking of it when I read lol. Also FWIW, I feel like at 42 my CNS overtrains FAR easier than my body. All the intensifiers like RP, drop set, super sets just fry me fast compared to straight sets to failure. The one thing DC training brings that volume training doesnt is the anxiety associated with beating the log book. It can get daunting knowing you barely eeked out 5 more pounds last time and now you somehow have to beat that again. But I suppose that is what separates the men from the boys and makes the program successful for those who can consistently do it.

 

[qbkilla]

This is pretty much what I do. like you said a periodization of sorts. When one gets boring or it it gets fresh to switch for a bit and give my body/CNS a break from each.

Everyone always talks rep ranges with DC training. You could be 24 and train in the 20-30RP rep range and make just as great of progress as the 15-20RP range. Injuries come from not keeping form standardized and getting a little too loose slinging weight to beath the log book. But then you didnt really beat it if you altered form for assistance. The over use/connective tissue/joint concerns are there for any program and using higher reps but it seems only DC gets the rep as being injury prone.

Sorry, tangent. I know you didnt say that I was just thinking of it when I read lol. Also FWIW, I feel like at 42 my CNS overtrains FAR easier than my body. All the intensifiers like RP, drop set, super sets just fry me fast compared to straight sets to failure. The one thing DC training brings that volume training doesnt is the anxiety associated with beating the log book. It can get daunting knowing you barely eeked out 5 more pounds last time and now you somehow have to beat that again. But I suppose that is what separates the men from the boys and makes the program successful for those who can consistently do it.

Agree on all especially the anxiety of beating the log book. The interesting thing is how on dc training we get strong so fast...the program is set up to keep the logbook moving. But the method is the exact opposite of other traditional strength training programs

5x5, 531...you hit movements frequently with submaximal sets and get stronger

Dc training..you hit movements 1x every 2 weeks beyond failure and get stronger

I guess it just shows there are different ways to gain strength quickly. Or perhaps the 5x5, 531 mehtods are more about neurological adaptation where in dc training the strength gains come from hypertrophy. Either way...loving doing the 2 way split after wasting 2 years doing all the crap being promoted now days lol

 

[Gaintrain]

you should always go into the training session with a goal in mind. track your sessions and progress in any way either beating reps set from week prior of increases working weight matching the rep range already set..

 

[madg]

you should always go into the training session with a goal in mind. track your sessions and progress in any way either beating reps set from week prior of increases working weight matching the rep range already set..

Or same weight same rep lower rest time

I often do this too

 

[Josefein421]

Agree on all especially the anxiety of beating the log book. The interesting thing is how on dc training we get strong so fast...the program is set up to keep the logbook moving. But the method is the exact opposite of other traditional strength training programs

5x5, 531...you hit movements frequently with submaximal sets and get stronger

Dc training..you hit movements 1x every 2 weeks beyond failure and get stronger

I guess it just shows there are different ways to gain strength quickly. Or perhaps the 5x5, 531 mehtods are more about neurological adaptation where in dc training the strength gains come from hypertrophy. Either way...loving doing the 2 way split after wasting 2 years doing all the crap being promoted now days lol

Agreed. After so many years of powerlifting and very rarely hitting failure in training it is interesting. I do know the exact physiologic reason but have wondered the same.

 

[Mufasa123]

Agree on all especially the anxiety of beating the log book. The interesting thing is how on dc training we get strong so fast...the program is set up to keep the logbook moving. But the method is the exact opposite of other traditional strength training programs

5x5, 531...you hit movements frequently with submaximal sets and get stronger

Dc training..you hit movements 1x every 2 weeks beyond failure and get stronger

I guess it just shows there are different ways to gain strength quickly. Or perhaps the 5x5, 531 mehtods are more about neurological adaptation where in dc training the strength gains come from hypertrophy. Either way...loving doing the 2 way split after wasting 2 years doing all the crap being promoted now days lol

It's not so much binary - either hypertrophy or strength. There's an overlap or spectrum and they can work synergistically. If you look at microtrauma a single maximum rep causes the most (inarguably the greatest rep the body can do for hypertrophy stimulus). You just can't do a whole lot of those so aggregate microtrauma from really heavy workout is necessarily low as volume is low. Some programs are a good blend/balance. WSB might train max effort on some movements but gets plenty of volume/workload on accessory or non ME work.

If you look at sets of 5 reps (since you mentioned it), doing 5x5 is a good amount of volume (25 working reps) but it allows heavy enough weight for good neurological adaptation as well. That neurological adaptation lets you progressively load not just with more hypertrophy gains but with the neuro gains in there too. Continuous progressive loading is great for hypertrophy so in that paradigm you are leveraging them both. That kind of balance works really well for a beginner as that's a classic case of neurological gains via learning movements and getting better at them driving hypertrophy (newbie gains is what many call it).

If you look at really high reps, that can work too. I don't know much about DC training but when I've seen the layouts I've always thought of them as better for more advanced bodybuilders or those who have an established base of muscle and strength. I'm not an expert here and can't remember much, did spend some time on intense muscle in the day, but building that initial base really helps make the more volume, higher rep, bodybuilding dedicated programs shine versus starting off with them. One of the things I always liked about DC, and feel similar, is that he wasn't dogmatic and didn't get caught up in the small shit. He said what most people needed to hear, 95% of bodybuilders were failing miserably due to not building enough muscle. They'd laugh at the really big strong guys and then DC would make fun of them (one case in particular stands out) when the ogre fat guy leaned down and got ripped, outshining 99% of them. Dude had what they didn't and what they were struggling with, a shit ton of muscle and it didn't matter how he built it or what he looked like before he dropped the fat.

 

[qbkilla]

It's not so much binary - either hypertrophy or strength. There's an overlap or spectrum and they can work synergistically. If you look at microtrauma a single maximum rep causes the most (inarguably the greatest rep the body can do for hypertrophy stimulus). You just can't do a whole lot of those so aggregate microtrauma from really heavy workout is necessarily low as volume is low. Some programs are a good blend/balance. WSB might train max effort on some movements but gets plenty of volume/workload on accessory or non ME work.

If you look at sets of 5 reps (since you mentioned it), doing 5x5 is a good amount of volume (25 working reps) but it allows heavy enough weight for good neurological adaptation as well. That neurological adaptation lets you progressively load not just with more hypertrophy gains but with the neuro gains in there too. Continuous progressive loading is great for hypertrophy so in that paradigm you are leveraging them both. That kind of balance works really well for a beginner as that's a classic case of neurological gains via learning movements and getting better at them driving hypertrophy (newbie gains is what many call it).

If you look at really high reps, that can work too. I don't know much about DC training but when I've seen the layouts I've always thought of them as better for more advanced bodybuilders or those who have an established base of muscle and strength. I'm not an expert here and can't remember much, did spend some time on intense muscle in the day, but building that initial base really helps make the more volume, higher rep, bodybuilding dedicated programs shine versus starting off with them. One of the things I always liked about DC, and feel similar, is that he wasn't dogmatic and didn't get caught up in the small shit. He said what most people needed to hear, 95% of bodybuilders were failing miserably due to not building enough muscle. They'd laugh at the really big strong guys and then DC would make fun of them (one case in particular stands out) when the ogre fat guy leaned down and got ripped, outshining 99% of them. Dude had what they didn't and what they were struggling with, a shit ton of muscle and it didn't matter how he built it or what he looked like before he dropped the fat.

Great training post as always! The spectrum of training programs that work imo is the most interesting part about fitness. We see guys getting jacked doing low volume and these programs seem to always focus on progressive overload. Then other guys on high volume, with a bit less emphasis on progressive overload. Then I feel like there are other programs that focus on volume only (just get in and stimulate the muscle) but trainees who do this seem less common. Im not an expert on those methods but I feel like Vince Girona and nubret had this approach. Then you see some jacked dudes just doing calesthenics...obviously not mass monsters but still people do build muscle this way.

 

[old timer]

I know the implied training mode was lifting, but I made a modest 2026 goal regarding running. About four months ago i was with a friend walking up a steep hill and struggled to have a conversation. That started an effort by me to run some and I even ran a couple 5k's for the first time in over 30 years. My 2026 goal is to run 260 miles: 5 miles per week.

 

[Spiro]

Dc training..you hit movements 1x every 2 weeks beyond failure and get stronger

Hitting a muscle x1per week with A and B training?

 

[Mufasa123]

I know the implied training mode was lifting, but I made a modest 2026 goal regarding running. About four months ago i was with a friend walking up a steep hill and struggled to have a conversation. That started an effort by me to run some and I even ran a couple 5k's for the first time in over 30 years. My 2026 goal is to run 260 miles: 5 miles per week.

Not dissimilar to lifting or all of training. It's often what we don't like to do and aren't good at that is the most beneficial to work hard at yielding the most results.

BTW - I need to do more cardio work.