do you guy think that the drug companys

[the_warrior]

It's only a con theory until someone proves it to be fact .

Thank you for the truism.

 

[ssdark1]

This thread would be silly if it didn't bespeak such a distorted worldview. As with any conspiracy theory, simply consider the level of coordination required. Additionally, consider the character of the people with whom you interact each and every day. Are they so driven by the desire for mammon as to participate in a coverup of a drug that cures cancer or something similar? If the answer isn't an emphatic, "No", then you have much larger problems in your own life than the remote possibliity of some world-embracing conspiracy.

you do realize how easy it is to just label something as a conspiracy theory? its usually an easy way to determine if someone is capable of independent, critical, and analytical thinking.

 

[the_warrior]

Please respond to the argument independently, critically, and analytically...

 

[TurboNikko]

Chris Rock pretty much said it the way it is.

YouTube - Chris Rock - Doctors & Drugs

 

[mr. boom]

It's all about money and power. Driven by evil.. Ever heard of vitamin B17? Probably not because it is illeagal to sale in the USA.. Creat a disease or feed it then creat a drug for it. Money keeps rolling in.. If they let us have the cure for cancer then think about how much money they would lose.

 

[richiec]

This thread would be silly if it didn't bespeak such a distorted worldview. As with any conspiracy theory, simply consider the level of coordination required. Additionally, consider the character of the people with whom you interact each and every day. Are they so driven by the desire for mammon as to participate in a coverup of a drug that cures cancer or something similar? If the answer isn't an emphatic, "No", then you have much larger problems in your own life than the remote possibliity of some world-embracing conspiracy.

So you are saying that these companies would rather develope a cure for certain diseases and lose countless billions of dollars for the sense of doing something right? Please let some of us into your world were that is how things are run, for the good of humanity. Because in this world, the one the rest of us live in, money is the key factor, not genorosity or the common good. Coordination involved, are you familiar with price fixing. 2 competitors talk over the phone and fix prices, that's some coordination for that ass! Same applies in pharmaceuticals. They know that curing anything will mean less money in their pockets and the CEO's will have nothing to do with that. It's funny how they found cures for diseases 80-90 yrs ago and can't seem to do it today, with the much more sophisticated technological advancements and seeing how we have and a better understanding of the human body. If you are so naive to think that global corporations want to help the "little guy", I think you have bigger problems than anoyone on this site.

 

[mojo jojo]

I do not believe they have cures for diseases and are hiding them. However it is a safer investment for drug companies to create new drugs that are similar to drugs already on the market then to do a search for an all out cure. The first gives them a drug they can market that may be a little better then the drugs already available which they can make money off of where the later may leave them with nothing but spent money.

They are a business first and they do need to make money to survive as a business. If they went all out for a cure only then the business is more likely to fail. Hell there are always small biotech companies that shoot for the stars and fail. When they fail the big companies buy them and use their research towards new treatments and products.

 

[the_warrior]

So you are saying that these companies would rather develope a cure for certain diseases and lose countless billions of dollars for the sense of doing something right? Please let some of us into your world were that is how things are run, for the good of humanity. Because in this world, the one the rest of us live in, money is the key factor, not genorosity or the common good. Coordination involved, are you familiar with price fixing. 2 competitors talk over the phone and fix prices, that's some coordination for that ass! Same applies in pharmaceuticals. They know that curing anything will mean less money in their pockets and the CEO's will have nothing to do with that. It's funny how they found cures for diseases 80-90 yrs ago and can't seem to do it today, with the much more sophisticated technological advancements and seeing how we have and a better understanding of the human body. If you are so naive to think that global corporations want to help the "little guy", I think you have bigger problems than anoyone on this site.

Conclusions to draw from your post:

1) You fail to realize that while a corporation is a person under law, it is in fact an assemblage of many people engaged in a common enterprise

2) You don't understand how decisions are made within a corporate structure and as a result grossly overstate the influence of individuals (namely the CEO) in that structure

3) Your game theory sucks. Otherwise you wouldn't so quickly allude to price fixing or collusion as a counterpoint to my critique.

4) You fail to realize that while our knowledge has increased the problems that remain in physics and biology are similarly of a higher order. Alternatively, there is a great conspiracy among the physicists of the world to keep the unified theory.

A note about from where my perspective comes. I've spent my life (socially, academically, and professionally) with a high degree of access to the very people whom as a class your allegations are lodged against. Their decision making processes are not as you seem to believe, not even close.

Thanks for playing.

 

[the_warrior]

I do not believe they have cures for diseases and are hiding them. However it is a safer investment for drug companies to create new drugs that are similar to drugs already on the market then to do a search for an all out cure. The first gives them a drug they can market that may be a little better then the drugs already available which they can make money off of where the later may leave them with nothing but spent money.

They are a business first and they do need to make money to survive as a business. If they went all out for a cure only then the business is more likely to fail. Hell there are always small biotech companies that shoot for the stars and fail. When they fail the big companies buy them and use their research towards new treatments and products.

A sensible post on the subject if there has been one. One may also note the role of government funding for basic research.

 

[richiec]

Conclusions to draw from your post:

1) You fail to realize that while a corporation is a person under law, it is in fact an assemblage of many people engaged in a common enterprise

2) You don't understand how decisions are made within a corporate structure and as a result grossly overstate the influence of individuals (namely the CEO) in that structure

3) Your game theory sucks. Otherwise you wouldn't so quickly allude to price fixing or collusion as a counterpoint to my critique.

4) You fail to realize that while our knowledge has increased the problems that remain in physics and biology are similarly of a higher order. Alternatively, there is a great conspiracy among the physicists of the world to keep the unified theory.

A note about from where my perspective comes. I've spent my life (socially, academically, and professionally) with a high degree of access to the very people whom as a class your allegations are lodged against. Their decision making processes are not as you seem to believe, not even close.

Thanks for playing.

You are under the impression that I am some back woods in bred who knows nothing of the world.

1. I understand how the corporate structure works, as I deal with them on a daily basis. The corporate boards understand one thing about their business, that it is simply that, a business. They are, as is every other business, in it to make the most amount of money they can while spending the least amount possbile to make it. The people at the pharmaceutical companies who sit on these boards care about the bottom line, and that's the bottom line. The researchers do strive to find better medicines that are more effective, yes. But the researchers don't pay the bills or make corporate decisions, the guys in the suits do.

2. I apologize for the generalization by using the CEO as the example. I should have said the corporate board who makes the decisions care about making the stockholders happy, not the guy who has terminal cancer.

3. My game theory sucks, okay. You speak of a level of coordination that is not as complex as you make it out to be, hence the price fixing example. The pharmaceutical companies have the market in their pocket, they control it. What they say goes, they contribute billions of dollars to our government each year to expedite drug test approvals so it can hit the market faster. So do you really think it would be difficult for them to simply disregard the welfare of the average person? They rush these drugs to market that are later found to be detrimental to peoples health, but the FDA turns a blind eye, huh. That's weird, they are the ones supposed to be regulating that, but I guess that would take way too much coordination to pay someone off in the FDA.

4. Great response to my point. Please inform us of lower intelligence what this "higher order" is. We understand how the body works better, we understand how disease works better, we understand how drugs interact with our bodies and with other drugs, but this higher order you speak of is very intriguing, please do tell.

I could care less if your social, academic, and professional life was under the tutelage of the greatest medical professionals or businessmen to ever walk this earth. The problem with your "gameplan" is that you are going based on the people you know, who are probably good people at heart. The thing is, people that are good at heart tend to not make it in the dog-eat-dog corporate world. There are some that are very successful, yes, but the majority are just like our politicians, taking backroom deals and paying people off. I deal with it every day! People are scum bags when it comes to money, and these people deal with billions, trillions year in year out. So if people are cut-throat over $1-$5,000 how are they when you add 5-6 zeros on that.

I don't doubt that you know some good people in these industries, but if you believe that all of these corporations are looking out for the common good of society, you are naive

 

[triathloncoach]

OMG!!!!

As someone with an MBA and nearly 20 years of working in the Drug business for several very large Pharma and Biotech companies, (I've held Sales, Marketing and Finance Positions)I'm embarrassed that I even have the time to refute some of you arm chair philospohers.

Any CEO, Board of Directors, Chief Scientific Officer, Chief Financial Officer (I'm spelling this out for you folks that wouldn't understand the acronyms for C-Suite level executive) would kill their mother, mortage their house (s), trade 100% of the company's stock for a 50/50 partnership for any vaccine that would CURE Cancer, Heart Disease, Aids, Diabetes, Mental Illness. OMG times 2. Why dont Y'all stick with your gear abuse and stop your feeble, delusional interpretations on economic behavior. Even the rich and famous die young from disease. Even some of the rich Pharma executives die early.

I want to really flame some more, but I'm going to take my dogs for a walk instead. My college wrestling partner is the CEO of a fortune 500 company. Not in health care. And do you know how proud he is that his company helps people? You guys watch too much of the Simpsons, Mr. Burns doesn't exist. Really.

 

[richiec]

So what you're saying is that it would be a better marketing and business solution to come out with a one time cure as opposed to keeping these people on medication for 10,20,30+ years? Let's say there is a cure, how much would it cost for an AIDS cure? 10k,20k, more? Well by having them on meds for the rest of their lives, the pharm companies make more than that and it keeps the specialized docs doors open. Ask Magic Johnson how much he's spent in the last 25 yrs on meds.

 

[the_warrior]

As someone with an MBA and nearly 20 years of working in the Drug business for several very large Pharma and Biotech companies, (I've held Sales, Marketing and Finance Positions)I'm embarrassed that I even have the time to refute some of you arm chair philospohers.

Any CEO, Board of Directors, Chief Scientific Officer, Chief Financial Officer (I'm spelling this out for you folks that wouldn't understand the acronyms for C-Suite level executive) would kill their mother, mortage their house (s), trade 100% of the company's stock for a 50/50 partnership for any vaccine that would CURE Cancer, Heart Disease, Aids, Diabetes, Mental Illness. OMG times 2. Why dont Y'all stick with your gear abuse and stop your feeble, delusional interpretations on economic behavior. Even the rich and famous die young from disease. Even some of the rich Pharma executives die early.

for the win

 

[richiec]

I wish I could see it from your perspective triathaloncoach and the_warrior, but the experiences I've had and the people that I've dealt with paint a completely different picture than what you guys believe. I've listened to many a board meeting where people talk about wishing they could do this or that and what they would give to be able to do it, knowing damn well and good that all they have to do is actually do it, but it just doesn't make sense to them in the economic side of it.

Yes, of course a cure for diseases would be worth trillions of dollars, but who would be able to afford it? If you were able to get a vaccine for ALL known diseases, what do you think the price tag on that would be? Well it would certainly be out of reach for 99% of the people struglling with these diseases we are having this debate about.

 

[triathloncoach]

OMG Part 2

So what you're saying is that it would be a better marketing and business solution to come out with a one time cure as opposed to keeping these people on medication for 10,20,30+ years? Let's say there is a cure, how much would it cost for an AIDS cure? 10k,20k, more? Well by having them on meds for the rest of their lives, the pharm companies make more than that and it keeps the specialized docs doors open. Ask Magic Johnson how much he's spent in the last 25 yrs on meds.

Your brain is clouded my young apprentice. (My kids are watching Star Wars. Well, me too)

Have you ever heard of the word generic? Have you ever heard of newer and better? Its part of the competitive market place. Your drugs that only treat the symptoms and dont provide the cure are always being displaced. Yeah, Magic has been on drugs for years, but his drug purchases have come from dozens of companies. Ask Pfizer how much Lipitor is going to help them in 2013. And that is about the biggest grand slam the industry ever saw.

OK, I'm giving Johnny Depp his props for the work Fuck-Mook. Yes, thats you. Think about having a vaccine that every human on the planet will want. Every baby that is born anywhere on the planet is now your customer. Its sweeter than having "TODAYs" number 1, (and how many companies are there competing, and how many of them can have "TODAY's" #1 drug? OK, I'll tell you, only one company can be #1. And the leader board constantly changes. And the people running these companies are already rich, imagine the Glory, the immortality, of being a part of the cure of one of humaities scourges? Even if your economic rational made sense. Look up Jonas Salk. Oh, and dont start your learn'n with the Disney Channel.

 

[ksimmfitness]

Do you guy ever think the that the drug company's already have the cure for most illnesses in the world but they make so much money off the sick people they would never come out with the cure because of the billions they make off the ill people?

Possibly. I would assume there is just as much money in illness prevention and disease cures as there is in anything else. Take vaccines, for example. They are a billion dollar revenue stream for big pharm. Medicine is medicine. If it was a one time dosage, type product, then the cost would be factored in, so it would be thousands of dollars for a dosage, instead of a few hundrend for a 'cycle'. If there was a cancer drug that cured most cancers, and it was $100,000 for the one pill, people would buy it. They would morgage their house, borrow from the bank, whatever they could. By the way, if they were gauranteed to live, by taking a pill or having a particular treatment administered, banks would be more open to lending to them.

It's a good quetion and many people wonder the same thing.

 

[triathloncoach]

OK, I apologize - somewhat

I wish I could see it from your perspective triathaloncoach and the_warrior, but the experiences I've had and the people that I've dealt with paint a completely different picture than what you guys believe. I've listened to many a board meeting where people talk about wishing they could do this or that and what they would give to be able to do it, knowing damn well and good that all they have to do is actually do it, but it just doesn't make sense to them in the economic side of it.

Yes, of course a cure for diseases would be worth trillions of dollars, but who would be able to afford it? If you were able to get a vaccine for ALL known diseases, what do you think the price tag on that would be? Well it would certainly be out of reach for 99% of the people struglling with these diseases we are having this debate about.

Excellent points. I've been in International Marketing. I was responsible for Asia and Latin America. (For a po-dunk product - I'm mid level at best)

Millions of people die every year because they can't afford to buy drugs that are currently available. So it's a gray area. Yes, you have a cure for cancer. The family living in a muddy lot in the middle of New Dehli with a plastic tarp for their house (something I will never ever ever forget) will not benefit from one of these imaginary vacccines. But then again, they can't afford generic chemotherapy, aids or diabetes products either. So the vaccine wont cannabalize the branded drug sales.

But now that I'm babling on, do you know how much it costs insurance companies to treat cancer, diabetic or aids patients over the course of their lifetime? Well, I dont either, but I bet its a lot when you consider hosptilization, doctor visits, surgical procedures, lost work time. Insurance companies would pay a ridiculous amount of money for that vaccine. The evil drug companies would black mail/extort them to paying an obscene amount of money. So you are right in saying they are not altruisticly motivated. XO XO. Sorry, but I'm not smart enough to know how wrong I often am, and go off the deep end. I'm having Roid Message Board Rage!!

But I just love calling people Fuck-Mook. Its a classic.

 

[ericraven2003]

As someone with an MBA and nearly 20 years of working in the Drug business for several very large Pharma and Biotech companies, (I've held Sales, Marketing and Finance Positions)I'm embarrassed that I even have the time to refute some of you arm chair philospohers.

Any CEO, Board of Directors, Chief Scientific Officer, Chief Financial Officer (I'm spelling this out for you folks that wouldn't understand the acronyms for C-Suite level executive) would kill their mother, mortage their house (s), trade 100% of the company's stock for a 50/50 partnership for any vaccine that would CURE Cancer, Heart Disease, Aids, Diabetes, Mental Illness. OMG times 2. Why dont Y'all stick with your gear abuse and stop your feeble, delusional interpretations on economic behavior. Even the rich and famous die young from disease. Even some of the rich Pharma executives die early.

I want to really flame some more, but I'm going to take my dogs for a walk instead. My college wrestling partner is the CEO of a fortune 500 company. Not in health care. And do you know how proud he is that his company helps people? You guys watch too much of the Simpsons, Mr. Burns doesn't exist. Really.

Great post.

 

[mojo jojo]

Your brain is clouded my young apprentice. (My kids are watching Star Wars. Well, me too)

Have you ever heard of the word generic? Have you ever heard of newer and better? Its part of the competitive market place. Your drugs that only treat the symptoms and dont provide the cure are always being displaced. Yeah, Magic has been on drugs for years, but his drug purchases have come from dozens of companies. Ask Pfizer how much Lipitor is going to help them in 2013. And that is about the biggest grand slam the industry ever saw.

OK, I'm giving Johnny Depp his props for the work Fuck-Mook. Yes, thats you. Think about having a vaccine that every human on the planet will want. Every baby that is born anywhere on the planet is now your customer. Its sweeter than having "TODAYs" number 1, (and how many companies are there competing, and how many of them can have "TODAY's" #1 drug? OK, I'll tell you, only one company can be #1. And the leader board constantly changes. And the people running these companies are already rich, imagine the Glory, the immortality, of being a part of the cure of one of humaities scourges? Even if your economic rational made sense. Look up Jonas Salk. Oh, and dont start your learn'n with the Disney Channel.

If a company found the cure for a disease they would patent it and sell it because if they did not some other company would discover it and sell it. If they find a product that can make money they will sell it and while selling it they will work on the next product.

Some have brought up the fact that we have not cured any diseases in a while. Well maybe that is because the diseases we are dealing with now a more difficult to cure then the ones we previously cured. Look at HPV. There is a vaccine for HPV but it does not work against all forms of HPV. The vaccine for Polio and small pox only needed 1 vaccine and then the diseases were no longer an issue.

Also many diseases caused by bacteria or viruses fight back. With bacteria we find a way to kill it and then it evolves and becomes resistant to the treatment. We come up with a vaccine for the flu every year and then the flu mutates and next year you need new flu shots. Some of you are trying to compare diseases as if they are all the same but they are very different.

 

[minister]

Do you guy ever think the that the drug company's already have the cure for most illnesses in the world but they make so much money off the sick people they would never come out with the cure because of the billions they make off the ill people?

I love conspiracy theories. this one is probably one that could be true, there are a lot stories about people discovering cures and then disappearing , and all their research with them, there could be some true to this. God bless you bro.