Do you really need ORAL'S??

[OuchThatHurts]

Not really, because 12oz of beer contains between 4.0 / 5.0 percent of alcohol while Vodka contains 40% alcohol. So those are not fair comparisons.

5mg of an 17AA's substance is 5mg's - period - regardless of what substance is in there. Thus, it has to survive first and second pass liver metabolism.

Also because the active ingredient in each drink is C2-H6-O (ethyl alcohol). Since the c17's are different chemicals, they may have a different effect on the liver. The chemicals themselves aren't toxic but rather the metabolite is. I would like to see a comparative graph mg/mg of these substances and their corresponding hepatotoxicity.

At first thought, I would think there would be differences in hepatotoxicity but I just don't know. Anyone? It sure would be a good slice of info.

Also, not all oral are c17's. Some are methylated.

And to the original post. You absolutely do NOT need orals. I'm certain you could achieve great gains without ever taking an oral steroid or anabolic.

Still would like to see something on the varying (if they do indeed vary) degrees of toxicity of the compounds. It could perhaps be measured too via the quantity of the metabolite (17-glucuronide) present in the liver after a specific period of use. I'd almost think you'd need a small piece of the liver to know this though and I don't think I'm volunteering mine! LOL

Take care peoples!

 

[KillerStack]

5mg of an 17AA's substance is 5mg's - period - regardless of what substance is in there. Thus, it has to survive first and second pass liver metabolism.

Take a look at this:
**broken link removed**

From the article:

Pop quiz time! True or false?

1) 17-alpha alkylated steroids are harder for the liver to metabolize, so it has to work harder to break them down.
2) All 17- alpha alkylated steroids are liver toxic.
3) Non 17-alpha alkylated steroids are not liver toxic.

It may surprise you to know all of the above are false .

So what about the supposedly liver friendly oxandrolone? The following excerpt summarizes why it is liver friendly:

Unlike other orally administered C17alpha-alkylated AASs, the novel chemical configuration of oxandrolone confers a resistance to liver metabolism as well as marked anabolic activity. In addition, oxandrolone appears not to exhibit the serious hepatotoxic effects (jaundice, cholestatic hepatitis, peliosis hepatis, hyperplasias and neoplasms) attributed to the C17alpha-alkylated AASs.

I submit that its resistance to metabolism (17-glucuronidation) is the reason for its lack of toxicity.

Thoughts?

I'm not a chemist so I don't know how accurate this is but I'm pretty certain there are differences. For example I've seen studies where anadrol lowered liver glutathione levels whereas Winstrol did not.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Good article... now we're getting somewhere. The scientist in me still cannot rest with just "based on the individual". There has got to be something more definitive. But the article points out "opinions vary".

I'll see if I can't dig something up and put this baby to bed.

thanks KS

 

[lordan]

17aa

hi there im NEW to all this roid shit so basically if your not willing to inject yourself then you cant do roids..??...could you do an effective cycle on dbol then and or with winni (orals)and get any gains or would the risk and side effects be to high....Hyperthetically curious???

 

[KillerStack]

hi there im NEW to all this roid shit so basically if your not willing to inject yourself then you cant do roids..??...could you do an effective cycle on dbol then and or with winni (orals)and get any gains or would the risk and side effects be to high....Hyperthetically curious???

Doing an oral only cycle is not worthless and will work. Oral anabolic steroids were not designed to be stacked, they were designed to be effective used solo. Oldtimers like Larry Scott etc certainly used orals solo and they were effective.
However, the point is that orals by themselves isn't the most effective or safe way to juice.