Do you take HCG with your TRT?

[Hiram1st]

This is what I recommend:
"
DONT take anything with it especially if you intend to do this long term and want to be successful at it.
HCG,Ai.,proviron SERMS all have a role in the "hormonal balance" game. However you have a chance when starting out for thing to work for you. Introducing this, that and the other will ensure you do NOT achieve the balance you are looking for, and you will always be adding an subtracting a compound hoping to achieve what will be at best a temporary feeling of well being.
The TESTOSTERONE molecule is VERY powerful and dictates MANY processes in your body. It must be allowed to travel it path to give you its benefits.

Keep the HCG as an emergency measure when/if you need to stimulate your reproductive system and ( and NOT necessarily your HPTA) .
HCG added to your TRT usually means your TRT dosage is not where you want it to be.
Testosterone bio-identical or not will aromatize converting to E, your body will respond to that by also introducing the right dosage of DHT (your bodies natural Ai., SERM and PRIMARY androgen at that) to keep the E under control.
It is when these 3 are in balance that the real magic happens.
The use of HCG in a TRT protocol will disrupt this balance from occurring as E will be fluctuating all over the place, LH-FSH bearing different half lives and triggering parallel signals you do NOT want, enzymes knocked out have a significant neurological effect... DONT!
My advise to you, let it do its thing, let it take over... your body will normalize around it bringing estrogen down if it needs to , converting to DHT when it wants to, progesterone, pregnenolone, prolactin all will harmonize.

On another note, those FEELING better from HCG administration when on TRT are not doing so because of an short increase in Testosterone or "LH" receptor binding. What they are feeling is the ESTROGEN elevation in response to HCG which will notoriously be elevated- to be more specific it is the AROMATIZATION into E that what giving the benifits, yes the conversion process itself is INDISPENSABLE!
Success full TRT is proper E management, and your body before adding all kind of anciliaries and throwing this harmony OFF, is BEST suited to keep thing in the proper ratios."

Wow brother that’s a lot of great info. I’ve never read it explained like that.
So I started HCG 2weeks ago ( been on trt for 5 years and never used it) I’m going to do bloodwork in 2 weeks and see how much it raised E2 and see where LH/FSH numbers are and will stop it.

Thanks for the detailed reply!!

 

[bad rad]

hCG won't raise LH/FSH even though many clinics relay this to patients. hCG mimics LH/FSH and stimulates the receptors for them in varying degrees.

 

[Hiram1st]

hCG won't raise LH/FSH even though many clinics relay this to patients. hCG mimics LH/FSH and stimulates the receptors for them in varying degrees.

Oh since it’s mimicking those numbers won’t go up?

 

[buck]

Wow brother that’s a lot of great info. I’ve never read it explained like that.
So I started HCG 2weeks ago ( been on trt for 5 years and never used it) I’m going to do bloodwork in 2 weeks and see how much it raised E2 and see where LH/FSH numbers are and will stop it.

Thanks for the detailed reply!!

When I started TRT about 20 years ago using Androgel my T levels would barely get into the mid range and my E2 would be 10-12. LH/FSH were near zero. After switching to weekly injections My T levels would rise and fall a lot. and my E2 was up in the teens. Adding HCG only raised my E2 into the low 20's. Doing daily injections now. And T levels are in the 800 range. Still using HCG all these years and my E2 has gotten up into the the low 30's. I assume some/much of that is just getting older and my body fat levels are higher and consistently higher T levels may play a part .

 

[Rogue]

When I started TRT about 20 years ago using Androgel my T levels would barely get into the mid range and my E2 would be 10-12. LH/FSH were near zero. After switching to weekly injections My T levels would rise and fall a lot. and my E2 was up in the teens. Adding HCG only raised my E2 into the low 20's. Doing daily injections now. And T levels are in the 800 range. Still using HCG all these years and my E2 has gotten up into the the low 30's. I assume some/much of that is just getting older and my body fat levels are higher and consistently higher T levels may play a part .

Buck, at what range E are you most comfortable?
Are you using the HCG to keep you E "up" in range?

 

[buck]

Buck, at what range E are you most comfortable?
Are you using the HCG to keep you E "up" in range?

My libido is probably best in the upper 20 range. But there are so many other factors involved that I would not say for sure that is it. I also seem to "feel" best when hormone levels are fluctuating up and down some as they would in real life and not be steady all the time. From my reading it seems that the higher levels I am at now are better then the years I was low. I am mostly using HCG as I feel it is probably a heather way to keep as many channels open as possible. But the increase in E seems to be more heart protective etc. And for what it is worth I have consumed more veggies(especially cruciferous ones) then most so I probably get in more DIM then most.

 

[Rogue]

My libido is probably best in the upper 20 range. But there are so many other factors involved that I would not say for sure that is it. I also seem to "feel" best when hormone levels are fluctuating up and down some as they would in real life and not be steady all the time. From my reading it seems that the higher levels I am at now are better then the years I was low. I am mostly using HCG as I feel it is probably a heather way to keep as many channels open as possible. But the increase in E seems to be more heart protective etc. And for what it is worth I have consumed more veggies(especially cruciferous ones) then most so I probably get in more DIM then most.

Why not experiment with spacing your dosage a little further apart. Same dosage over 10 days, but instead of 10 seperate dosages, maybe in 4 or 3 injections. This fluctuation will encourage more aromatase activity. The natural pattern of your body is in pulses dictated by E detection.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

your body will respond to that by also introducing the right dosage of DHT (your bodies natural Ai., SERM and PRIMARY androgen at that) to keep the E under control.

lol. what.

Where do you get this stuff?

 

[bad rad]

Oh since it’s mimicking those numbers won’t go up?

No, the numbers won't go up if using sufficient amounts of test and hCG.

 

[buck]

Why not experiment with spacing your dosage a little further apart. Same dosage over 10 days, but instead of 10 seperate dosages, maybe in 4 or 3 injections. This fluctuation will encourage more aromatase activity. The natural pattern of your body is in pulses dictated by E detection.

That would increase my E2 levels but as they are getting to the top of the "normal" range I am not sure how healthy that would be in the long run as most of what I have read seems to indicate that long term levels over the range are associated with several negative health conditions. Although I ran into this recently which would support higher E2 levels. But I am not sure where the cutoff point would be. https://www.abstractsonline.com/pp8/#!/5752/presentation/17019

 

[Hiram1st]

That would increase my E2 levels but as they are getting to the top of the "normal" range I am not sure how healthy that would be in the long run as most of what I have read seems to indicate that long term levels over the range are associated with several negative health conditions. Although I ran into this recently which would support higher E2 levels. But I am not sure where the cutoff point would be. https://www.abstractsonline.com/pp8/#!/5752/presentation/17019

Thanks for link posted. Have another research tool!

 

[Rogue]

That would increase my E2 levels but as they are getting to the top of the "normal" range I am not sure how healthy that would be in the long run as most of what I have read seems to indicate that long term levels over the range are associated with several negative health conditions. Although I ran into this recently which would support higher E2 levels. But I am not sure where the cutoff point would be. https://www.abstractsonline.com/pp8/#!/5752/presentation/17019

The 'ranges' set forth by the medical community for a specific age are general guidelines for folks who are NOT on optimized testosterone typically. Generally, I would recommend addressing elevated E only if they show an adverse effects.Being in the upper ranges should not immediately alarm you especially if it makes you feel better.More than often if you do NOT interrupt this process it is self resolving in your favor. The actual process of aromatization in crucial to well being especially the small percentage that occurs in the brain.There are lots of benefits to E being in ratio to the bio identical testosterone.

Estrogens have a fundamental role in the regulation of body fat and sexual function, a crucial role in bone metabolism indicates that estrogen deficiency is largely responsible for some of the key consequences of male hypogonadism and suggests that measuring estradiol might be helpful in assessing the risk of sexual dysfunction, bone loss, or fat accumulation in hypogonadal men and those mismanaging exogeneous testosterone.

This is NOT medical advise, please consult with your physician before making changes.

 

[bad rad]

I've seen a few podcast discussing the best heart protection of E2 starts around 60's blood level. I feel best between 35-45 personally and didn't notice any symptoms of high E2 when it was in the 60's from a big injection.

I don't get much aromitization without hCG and suffer all the normal issues of low E2.

 

[Hiram1st]

Here’s a good read/study on high estrogen/E2 in males it’s In my opinion as I get older 50 in a month I just want to safe as possible while enjoying all the benefits of this lifestyle. So for me it’s just not by feel it’s dialing in for optimal performance and health. Just my 2c.

Dangers of Excess Estrogen in the Aging Male - Life Extension

Excess estrogen in men is associated with increased risks of heart attack, stroke, and prostate disease. Since it is so easy for men to correct estrogen overload, it makes sense to test for it.

www.lifeextension.com

 

[buck]

The 'ranges' set forth by the medical community for a specific age are general guidelines for folks who are NOT on optimized testosterone typically. Generally, I would recommend addressing elevated E only if they show an adverse effects.Being in the upper ranges should not immediately alarm you especially if it makes you feel better.More than often if you do NOT interrupt this process it is self resolving in your favor. The actual process of aromatization in crucial to well being especially the small percentage that occurs in the brain.There are lots of benefits to E being in ratio to the bio identical testosterone.

Estrogens have a fundamental role in the regulation of body fat and sexual function, a crucial role in bone metabolism indicates that estrogen deficiency is largely responsible for some of the key consequences of male hypogonadism and suggests that measuring estradiol might be helpful in assessing the risk of sexual dysfunction, bone loss, or fat accumulation in hypogonadal men and those mismanaging exogeneous testosterone.

This is NOT medical advise, please consult with your physician before making changes.

I never really worry about the "normal" range. Or mainstream medical opinions of what should be done. I prefer to see large studies of some sort to guide my opinion on how to live.

Here’s a good read/study on high estrogen/E2 in males it’s In my opinion as I get older 50 in a month I just want to safe as possible while enjoying all the benefits of this lifestyle. So for me it’s just not by feel it’s dialing in for optimal performance and health. Just my 2c.

Dangers of Excess Estrogen in the Aging Male - Life Extension

Excess estrogen in men is associated with increased risks of heart attack, stroke, and prostate disease. Since it is so easy for men to correct estrogen overload, it makes sense to test for it.

www.lifeextension.com

I was just getting ready to post that article as I had read it before along with many others. While it is older. Are there any more recent ones that show something different? I usually have a tendency to trust LEF as I have been reading them for 20 years.

 

[Hiram1st]

I never really worry about the "normal" range. Or mainstream medical opinions of what should be done. I prefer to see large studies of some sort to guide my opinion on how to live.



I was just getting ready to post that article as I had read it before along with many others. While it is older. Are there any more recent ones that show something different? I usually have a tendency to trust LEF as I have been reading them for 20 years.

I may be a Goon here lol but what’s LEF? Typing it in and getting all kinds of stuff

 

[muaythai123]

UK doc has some interesting views on HCG:

his TRT protocol is to use HCG to keep gonadal function, and then top up with test to get optimal levels. which makes sense when you think about it.

 

[buck]

I may be a Goon here lol but what’s LEF? Typing it in and getting all kinds of stuff

LEF = Life Extension Foundation. I don't like typing it all out. Often refered to as LEF

UK doc has some interesting views on HCG:

his TRT protocol is to use HCG to keep gonadal function, and then top up with test to get optimal levels. which makes sense when you think about it. I used it for a while but didn't notice any real change that I could tell.

Not a real new approach. Dr. Crisler as well as others started doing that many years ago. I remember on other HRT forums many liked it and some did not as I remember.

The CRISLER HCG PROTOCOL for men on HRT | Super Human Radio on Patreon

Official Post from Super Human Radio: The CRISLER HCG PROTOCOLPart DeuxBy John Crisler, DOwww.DrJohnCrisler.comThis update of a previous report has been written exclusively for Super Human Radio fans. I hope the newest version serves you well.In the paper “My Current Best Thoughts on How to...

www.patreon.com

 

[xpoc]

TRT for the past 10 years. HcG with TRT for the past 5-6 (year round, not cycling). I would say the HcG is beneficial. I feel great and my balls grew back! When I was on straight TRT my balls shrunk big time. When I would bust a nut, they would pull up into my abdomen (even with the shaft of my penis) and would hurt like a MOFO until they finally relaxed and dropped back down. That has not happened since HcG began.

 

[JOKER]

TRT for the past 10 years. HcG with TRT for the past 5-6 (year round, not cycling). I would say the HcG is beneficial. I feel great and my balls grew back! When I was on straight TRT my balls shrunk big time. When I would bust a nut, they would pull up into my abdomen (even with the shaft of my penis) and would hurt like a MOFO until they finally relaxed and dropped back down. That has not happened since HcG began.

Exactly. Hcg doesn’t keep your HP axis functioning. If it stop functioning your thyroid, gut etc and nervous system would crash. Test over time will suppress these HP from pulsing LH snd FSH. So taking hcg will only keep this up to keep your NUTS full and possibly allow one to conceive. More than that not sure there is a benefit.