Does Double red cell donation lower hemocrit?

[Matsuo Munefusa]

Ok Ill be keeping an eye on it over the years, maybe 28 is till still pretty young

I noticed it creep up over the years too...I never did 2g a week but at 1g it used to be lower than it is now at 140mg/week

 

[Kaladryn]

Don't donate double red, they put your platelets back, that is what makes your blood "sticky" you want those gone too.

It goes even further, after a blood donation, your platelets temporarily increase anyway (increasing risk of clotting). Temporary increase in platelets, plus putting all those platelets back, PLUS reduced blood volume from losing 2 pints equals much greater risk for clotting.

My doctor has been telling me to only donate whole blood since 1990 and he's an expert in working with bodybuilders and TRT patients.

 

[ericraven2003]

seconded on wanting to know the number before making the call...if you're on AAS donating blood will not do much, the rebound toward homeostasis is strong on AAS. The only thing I've found that works is controlling the dosage. I've successfully kept my HCT hovering around 50.5 for a couple years now....it improves my athletic output and increases recovery between attempts athletically.

I am only on TRT of 100mg a week, plus 3 ius of gh a day. Are you saying it wont help if I am only on TRT?

 

[ericraven2003]

Don't donate double red, they put your platelets back, that is what makes your blood "sticky" you want those gone too.

It goes even further, after a blood donation, your platelets temporarily increase anyway (increasing risk of clotting). Temporary increase in platelets, plus putting all those platelets back, PLUS reduced blood volume from losing 2 pints equals much greater risk for clotting.

My doctor has been telling me to only donate whole blood since 1990 and he's an expert in working with bodybuilders and TRT patients.

Got you. Will do whole only then. Thanks brother.

 

[Thebigone]

His reasoning for concern are returning your platelets, possibly creating more of an environment of hyperviscosity, secondary to erythropoiesis.

I understand his logic, as with relative polycythemia there's an increase with platelet production. The takeaway concerns would be how functional or dysfunctional (increased platelet aggregation) ones platelets are too begin with.

It's really individualized. I truly don't believe the general population will experience thrombosis doing a double RBC with erythropoiesis.

My concerns are doing therapeutics back-to-back setting the stage for iron deficiency, with or without anemia. This in-it of itself has been shown to increase platelet aggregation. Obviously by doing a double RBC over whole blood, we'll lose twice as much iron, upwards of 500mg.

There's always more to the picture than meets the eye.

What is your HH/RBC, eric? Do you have your lab's available?

Well that sucks I thought a double red blood cell donation you would lose the same amount of iron because they are not taking double whole blood but if you still lose the same amount of iron and that would defeat the whole purpose of getting it done if your goal is to not deplete iron. Thanks for being such a freaking Harvard genius.

 

[Thebigone]

Don't donate double red, they put your platelets back, that is what makes your blood "sticky" you want those gone too.

It goes even further, after a blood donation, your platelets temporarily increase anyway (increasing risk of clotting). Temporary increase in platelets, plus putting all those platelets back, PLUS reduced blood volume from losing 2 pints equals much greater risk for clotting.

My doctor has been telling me to only donate whole blood since 1990 and he's an expert in working with bodybuilders and TRT patients.

What about just donating platelets? I'm not sure if I remember correctly but I thought I saw at the blood bank that they needed platelet donations. Wouldn't that be the ultimate fix for lowering hemoglobin?

 

[nothuman]

What about just donating platelets? I'm not sure if I remember correctly but I thought I saw at the blood bank that they needed platelet donations. Wouldn't that be the ultimate fix for lowering hemoglobin?

Donating platelets does not lower hemoglobin.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

I am only on TRT of 100mg a week, plus 3 ius of gh a day. Are you saying it wont help if I am only on TRT?

I've never noticed it help at all so I gave up trying, while I "blasted" AAS I never paid attention....it was only after going on TRT for life that I started paying attention to HCT and BP etc...maybe if you donated every week regularly it would help....only thing that helped me is control the dosage and never go above 140mg test/week...and have times where I drop testosterone to 50-80mg/week

I found curcumin, resveratrol, GH, IGF, MK to help with my training and athletic improvement and left high doses alone for good now.

 

[Stewie]

I've never noticed it help at all so I gave up trying, while I "blasted" AAS I never paid attention....it was only after going on TRT for life that I started paying attention to HCT and BP etc...maybe if you donated every week regularly it would help....only thing that helped me is control the dosage and never go above 140mg test/week...and have times where I drop testosterone to 50-80mg/week

I found curcumin, resveratrol, GH, IGF, MK to help with my training and athletic improvement and left high doses alone for good now.

Ummm. Not such a wise idea, unless he has hemochromatosis, Gaisbock’s syndrome (apparent polycythemia) Porphyria cutanea tarda or polycythemia vera. Very unlikely he has any of the aforementioned, as it would have more than likely been diagnosed by now.

More than likely it's events of hypoxia and or secondary polycythemia. Although thats something his primary care provider would conclude.

 

[tjitsu]

How about Naringin? I have seen some writings on that it would bring numbers down, but not much talk on this forum.

I just ordered some for my husband to try, its real cheap.

Hes hct never goes above 49(45mostly) but hemoglobing is normaly top of the range, but in range....

 

[Whey2Heavy]

In my heavier AAS dosing days, my hematocrit never exceeded 50. Now even on TRT, it gets higher. I think the longer you're on AAS and the older you get, it's more of a problem. At least with me. Dante says he sees the same thing in many others.

Here's an awesome study to support the idea that hematocrit becomes more of a problem with age.

The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 95, No. 10 4743-4747
Copyright © 2010 by The Endocrine Society

Testosterone Suppresses Hepcidin in Men: A Potential Mechanism for Testosterone-Induced Erythrocytosis

Eric Bachman, Rui Feng1, Thomas Travison1, Michelle Li, Gordana Olbina, Vaughn Ostland, Jagadish Ulloor, Anqi Zhang, Shehzad Basaria, Tomas Ganz, Mark Westerman and Shalender Bhasin

Department of Medicine (E.C., T.T., S.Ba., S.Bh., M.L., J.U., A.Z.), Section of Endocrinology, Diabetes and Nutrition, Boston University School of Medicine, Boston, Massachusetts 02118; Department of Biostatistics and Epidemiology (R.F.), University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19104; Medicine and Pathology (T.G.), CHS 37-055, Department of Medicine, David Geffen School of Medicine, Los Angeles, California 90095-1690; and Intrinsic LifeSciences LLC (M.W., G.O., V.O.), La Jolla, California 92037

Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Eric Bachman, Department of Medicine, Section of Endocrinology, Diabetes and Nutrition, Boston University School of Medicine, 670 Albany Street, Boston, Massachusetts 02118. E-mail: [email protected].

Context: The mechanisms by which testosterone increases hemoglobin and hematocrit are unknown.

Objective: The aim was to test the hypothesis that testosterone-induced increase in hematocrit is associated with suppression of the iron regulatory hepcidin.

Participants: Healthy younger men (ages 19–35 yr; n = 53) and older men (ages 59–75 yr; n = 56) were studied.

Methods: Weekly doses of testosterone enanthate (25, 50, 125, 300, and 600 mg) were administered over 20 wk, whereas endogenous testosterone was suppressed by monthly GnRH agonist administration. Blood and serum parameters from each individual were measured at wk 0, 1, 2, 4, 8, and 20. Longitudinal analyses were performed to examine the relationship between hepcidin, hemoglobin, hematocrit, and testosterone while controlling for potential confounders.

Results: High levels of testosterone markedly suppressed serum hepcidin within 1 wk. Hepcidin suppression in response to testosterone administration was dose-dependent in older men and more pronounced than in young men, and this corresponded to a greater rise in hemoglobin in older men. Serum hepcidin levels at 4 and 8 wk were predictive of change in hematocrit from baseline to peak levels.

Conclusion: Testosterone administration is associated with suppression of serum hepcidin. Greater increases in hematocrit in older men during testosterone therapy are related to greater suppression of hepcidin.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

Ummm. Not such a wise idea, unless he has hemochromatosis, Gaisbock’s syndrome (apparent polycythemia) Porphyria cutanea tarda or polycythemia vera. Very unlikely he has any of the aforementioned, as it would have more than likely been diagnosed by now.

More than likely it's events of hypoxia and or secondary polycythemia. Although thats something his primary care provider would conclude.

You and Kaladryn always seemed to be the experts on this subject....is there any way other than controlling total dosage to control HCT? The only method I found was remain low dose for life and control it that way.....when I was off testosterone my HCT was lowish and that sucked (I noticed I didn't have as much endurance, energy, etc), when I used large doses mine was 53-55 and that sucked, I was red all the time, BP was high and I definitely thought I may have had some serious health complication requiring an ER visit.

 

[nothuman]

Here's an awesome study to support the idea that hematocrit becomes more of a problem with age.

The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 95, No. 10 4743-4747
Copyright © 2010 by The Endocrine Society

Testosterone Suppresses Hepcidin in Men: A Potential Mechanism for Testosterone-Induced Erythrocytosis

Eric Bachman, Rui Feng1, Thomas Travison1, Michelle Li, Gordana Olbina, Vaughn Ostland, Jagadish Ulloor, Anqi Zhang, Shehzad Basaria, Tomas Ganz, Mark Westerman and Shalender Bhasin

Department of Medicine (E.C., T.T., S.Ba., S.Bh., M.L., J.U., A.Z.), Section of Endocrinology, Diabetes and Nutrition, Boston University School of Medicine, Boston, Massachusetts 02118; Department of Biostatistics and Epidemiology (R.F.), University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19104; Medicine and Pathology (T.G.), CHS 37-055, Department of Medicine, David Geffen School of Medicine, Los Angeles, California 90095-1690; and Intrinsic LifeSciences LLC (M.W., G.O., V.O.), La Jolla, California 92037

Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Eric Bachman, Department of Medicine, Section of Endocrinology, Diabetes and Nutrition, Boston University School of Medicine, 670 Albany Street, Boston, Massachusetts 02118. E-mail: [email protected].

Context: The mechanisms by which testosterone increases hemoglobin and hematocrit are unknown.

Objective: The aim was to test the hypothesis that testosterone-induced increase in hematocrit is associated with suppression of the iron regulatory hepcidin.

Participants: Healthy younger men (ages 19–35 yr; n = 53) and older men (ages 59–75 yr; n = 56) were studied.

Methods: Weekly doses of testosterone enanthate (25, 50, 125, 300, and 600 mg) were administered over 20 wk, whereas endogenous testosterone was suppressed by monthly GnRH agonist administration. Blood and serum parameters from each individual were measured at wk 0, 1, 2, 4, 8, and 20. Longitudinal analyses were performed to examine the relationship between hepcidin, hemoglobin, hematocrit, and testosterone while controlling for potential confounders.

Results: High levels of testosterone markedly suppressed serum hepcidin within 1 wk. Hepcidin suppression in response to testosterone administration was dose-dependent in older men and more pronounced than in young men, and this corresponded to a greater rise in hemoglobin in older men. Serum hepcidin levels at 4 and 8 wk were predictive of change in hematocrit from baseline to peak levels.

Conclusion: Testosterone administration is associated with suppression of serum hepcidin. Greater increases in hematocrit in older men during testosterone therapy are related to greater suppression of hepcidin.

Thanks for the share. It does seem to be the case as I also feel like the people here who talk about having HCT issues tend to be 30+ years old.

 

[Landmonster]

Don't donate double red, they put your platelets back, that is what makes your blood "sticky" you want those gone too.

It goes even further, after a blood donation, your platelets temporarily increase anyway (increasing risk of clotting). Temporary increase in platelets, plus putting all those platelets back, PLUS reduced blood volume from losing 2 pints equals much greater risk for clotting.

My doctor has been telling me to only donate whole blood since 1990 and he's an expert in working with bodybuilders and TRT patients.

What if the donation center returns plasma and saline as well? Not just platelets

 

[Kineticmacks]

Ask them not to? Also whole blood only, not double red. You will be sooo tired and chance for iron deficiency is higher with double red.

 

[Bobik]

You and Kaladryn always seemed to be the experts on this subject....is there any way other than controlling total dosage to control HCT? The only method I found was remain low dose for life and control it that way.....when I was off testosterone my HCT was lowish and that sucked (I noticed I didn't have as much endurance, energy, etc), when I used large doses mine was 53-55 and that sucked, I was red all the time, BP was high and I definitely thought I may have had some serious health complication requiring an ER visit.

I have the same problem. I'm 40 years old. Now I've finished all the AS because my HTC was 60. I donated blood and I'm waiting for a good HTC .. damn, i need at least a TRT, but I'm still waiting, now is HTC 56 after donating and 3 weeks away from gear..... Iron in order but low blood platelets.