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Does muscle catabolism from T3 come as a result of…..

PYGMY

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Too much T3? Too little calories/protein while using T3? Or a combination of both?
 
Can be either of the two or both at the same time.
You can maintain calories by eating caloric dense foods like peanut butter. But eating too much your kinda defeating the purpose due to the higher fat content. Eat a wholesome diet high in protein: Keep fueling your body with high quality food. It will help your body function properly and maintain a healthy status. Protein is your best friend when maintaining muscle mass. Eating 1.5-2.0 grams of protein per kg of body weight is a great general guideline. Here are some high protein foods you can eat:. So you want to maintain a high caloric intake with quality protein and good carbs.
 
Too much T3? Too little calories/protein while using T3? Or a combination of both?
All but if your androgens are right and you’re eating enough food and lots of protein T3 can actually speed up anabolism.
 
I have read the theory, it looked sound so I tried it in various ways with higher and higher calorie/protein intakes and with escalating T3 dosages (going up as high as 300 mcg even) BUT the theory didn't pan out in practice.

Not that it gave me less anabolism but it also didn't give me more anabolism. It was basically a zero sum game.
 
The notion that T3 benefits protein turnover comes from L. Rea's Building the Perfect Beast, a work of science fiction. While there is a slight increase in protein synthesis (9% at 100mcg T3 daily x 2 weeks) the increase in protein catabolism/breakdown is greater (-12% & 24% Leucine oxidation) meaning net protein catabolism/breakdown.

Most alarmingly, for the minor benefit on energy expenditure/RMR of 10-15%, T3 preferentially catabolizes muscle tissue. Specifically, Type IIA fibers (those that reflect trained/hypertrophied muscle) shrunk in cross-sectional area by 15% in 6 weeks of T4+T3 use.
 
The notion that T3 benefits protein turnover comes from L. Rea's Building the Perfect Beast, a work of science fiction. While there is a slight increase in protein synthesis (9% at 100mcg T3 daily x 2 weeks) the increase in protein catabolism/breakdown is greater (-12% & 24% Leucine oxidation) meaning net protein catabolism/breakdown.

Most alarmingly, for the minor benefit on energy expenditure/RMR of 10-15%, T3 preferentially catabolizes muscle tissue. Specifically, Type IIA fibers (those that reflect trained/hypertrophied muscle) shrunk in cross-sectional area by 15% in 6 weeks of T4+T3 use.
But yet damn near every competitive bodybuilder uses t-3 in their prep. I guess that goes to show the true power of anabolic steroids.
 
The notion that T3 benefits protein turnover comes from L. Rea's Building the Perfect Beast, a work of science fiction. While there is a slight increase in protein synthesis (9% at 100mcg T3 daily x 2 weeks) the increase in protein catabolism/breakdown is greater (-12% & 24% Leucine oxidation) meaning net protein catabolism/breakdown.

Most alarmingly, for the minor benefit on energy expenditure/RMR of 10-15%, T3 preferentially catabolizes muscle tissue. Specifically, Type IIA fibers (those that reflect trained/hypertrophied muscle) shrunk in cross-sectional area by 15% in 6 weeks of T4+T3 use.

Ouch that’s madness
 
But yet damn near every competitive bodybuilder uses t-3 in their prep. I guess that goes to show the true power of anabolic steroids.
True that androgens seem to spare some skeletal muscle (not surprising as they are anticatabolic in muscle). Unfortunately there's no good data on to what extent. I do hope you recognize the weakness of the argument that "damn near every competitive bodybuilder" doing something does not actually make it the best choice. What if doing something differently actually leads to better results?

Also, a correction: the -15% change in Type IIA fiber cross-sectional area was for 100mcg daily T3 for 2 weeks. Interestingly, from all the evidence, between 2-3 weeks there is an inflection point in the catabolism of muscle and some mechanism seems to spare FURTHER muscle loss while fat loss continues.
 
True that androgens seem to spare some skeletal muscle (not surprising as they are anticatabolic in muscle). Unfortunately there's no good data on to what extent. I do hope you recognize the weakness of the argument that "damn near every competitive bodybuilder" doing something does not actually make it the best choice. What if doing something differently actually leads to better results?

Also, a correction: the -15% change in Type IIA fiber cross-sectional area was for 100mcg daily T3 for 2 weeks. Interestingly, from all the evidence, between 2-3 weeks there is an inflection point in the catabolism of muscle and some mechanism seems to spare FURTHER muscle loss while fat loss continues.
I was just giving a point in that if the muscle loss was to any significant extent bodybuilders at the highest level would not use it, yet 90%+ use it as a tool to get shredded. Maybe the argument is in the dosage thus keeping dosage below certain levels. Although a shit load of high level female bodybuilders seem to use pretty high amounts of it.

My post was not saying the science is wrong, im just saying real world applications in bodybuilders using high levels of PED's seem to tell a different story.
 
I was just giving a point in that if the muscle loss was to any significant extent bodybuilders at the highest level would not use it, yet 90%+ use it as a tool to get shredded. Maybe the argument is in the dosage thus keeping dosage below certain levels. Although a shit load of high level female bodybuilders seem to use pretty high amounts of it.

My post was not saying the science is wrong, im just saying real world applications in bodybuilders using high levels of PED's seem to tell a different story.
Gotcha. I just note that some people succeed in spite of what they do, not because of it, and by definition most competitive bodybuilders do not actually win/place/show. I personally think T3 has an unfavorable risk-reward profile. That's a good point about dosage, from what I've seen if I absolutely had to use T3 (IDK, say availability or something), I wouldn't go over 75 mcg daily and I'd make sure to use it with the right androgens. I also wonder whether some attributes of the different female categories might be OK with some muscle loss (doesn't seem the most rational thing to me to ever catabolize muscle)... but perhaps a wellness or bikini competitor might be able to justify some muscle loss at the last minute for some necessary fat loss.
 
N=1 anecdote just for the heck of it.

I’m a very low carb guy and ONLY 25mcg made me flat and lethargic. I was different gear the both times I ran it.

I can’t stand the stuff.

Im obviously a hyper-responder. I don’t even have any thyroid issues at all. I run a comprehensive thyroid panel 1-2/year b/c I’m on GH and I’m mid range on everything.
 
@Type-IIx , is there any research supporting clen being anti catabolic in humans? I know animal models have shown anti catabolic activity. I think it might of been horses??
 
According to my lab results over the years my natural thyroid levels fall in the range of low to normal. The low ranges were 5-6 weeks after ending t3. That's all the data I have. I could use more recent lab s, but I can possibly assume my natural levels fall in the low to normal ranges. When I just got tested it without using any thyroids for a while fell in the mid-ranges.

My temperature at work everyday is about normal compared to everyone else's, if this even matters.

Taken it before but it stressed me out worrying if my thryoid would return and if I needed to cut calories since natural thryoid levels were temporary suppressed afterwards but just about all the users I've seen including my sister who use it for 2 years thyroid levels generally come back in about 5 to 6 weeks after discontinuation of the thyroid hormone. I still think it's good to get blood work afterwards because it's just good to know where your levels are. I'm not saying every time but still good.

Some say it loses 5% potency after 24 months and and some say 10% after nine months according FDA testing.

For someone with lower to mid-range natural thyroid levels I would think toward the end of the prep maybe the last 6 weeks or so it may help Lee priest you should do it 5 weeks before his competition but don't think you have to use it because with every prep you don't have to throw everything into the arsenal. On paper you could use it longer since the research and studies I've seen that it comes back after 5 6 weeks it could be two years on or 5 weeks on. Chris Aceto got shredded and got his thyroid tests tested out and they were extremely low which is common with competition cuz it if I were does slow down over time with all the excess dieting lack of food.
 
@Type-IIx , is there any research supporting clen being anti catabolic in humans? I know animal models have shown anti catabolic activity. I think it might of been horses??
If your question is whether there is any study in humans on clen looking at the prevention of muscle atrophy in man with caloric restriction, the answer is no (unless there's data I haven't seen; but doubtful). But we do know it mitigates protein degradation mechanistically. It is demonstrably skeletal muscle anabolic in man, increases sprint performance, strength, is lipolytic, and increases skeletal muscle mass while decreasing fat mass. It's a potent recomp agent. I've written about it somewhat extensively here: Clenbuterol focus: Research on Clen & Beta2- Adrenergic Compounds, Protocols
 
If your question is whether there is any study in humans on clen looking at the prevention of muscle atrophy in man with caloric restriction, the answer is no (unless there's data I haven't seen; but doubtful). But we do know it mitigates protein degradation mechanistically. It is demonstrably skeletal muscle anabolic in man, increases sprint performance, strength, is lipolytic, and increases skeletal muscle mass while decreasing fat mass. It's a potent recomp agent. I've written about it somewhat extensively here: Clenbuterol focus: Research on Clen & Beta2- Adrenergic Compounds, Protocols

You took my poorly worded question and killed it. Thank you sir.
 
If your question is whether there is any study in humans on clen looking at the prevention of muscle atrophy in man with caloric restriction, the answer is no (unless there's data I haven't seen; but doubtful). But we do know it mitigates protein degradation mechanistically. It is demonstrably skeletal muscle anabolic in man, increases sprint performance, strength, is lipolytic, and increases skeletal muscle mass while decreasing fat mass. It's a potent recomp agent. I've written about it somewhat extensively here: Clenbuterol focus: Research on Clen & Beta2- Adrenergic Compounds, Protocols

Good info. Thank you.

I’m on 5mg Nebivolol. I wish I could use clean for the reasons you cited but I assume these cancel each other out directly? Can’t hurt to ask. Lol.
 

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