Does Primo have the same effect as Masteron combating 19-nor sides?

[EFShadow]

I have never seen an IGF1 serum level of 350 plus without a corresponding higher level of e2 regardless of cycle components. Increlex not withstanding.

 

[Sectør]

The other argument is that since primo and eq both do the same basic things in terms of growth etc, why not just use eq due to the price?

I mean theyre entirely different compounds and serve different roles. Both can be used for growth (with Testosterone as the main driver of the growth cycle)

I do understand your concern in maybe combining them, but I think any concerns could be offset with a proper test dosage. It also depends on how much an individual aromatises.

Individuals that aromatise less might need a higher ratio of test to eq/primo
individuals that aromatise heavily won't need as much test in comparison to the eq/primo ratio (i unfortunately fall in this category)

 

[EFShadow]

I mean theyre entirely different compounds and serve different roles. Both can be used for growth (with Testosterone as the main driver of the growth cycle)

I do understand your concern in maybe combining them, but I think any concerns could be offset with a proper test dosage. It also depends on how much an individual aromatises.

Individuals that aromatise less might need a higher ratio of test to eq/primo
individuals that aromatise heavily won't need as much test in comparison to the eq/primo ratio (i unfortunately fall in this category)

Agreed.

 

[luki7788]

They have similar actions from a practical standpoint and at a combined 1600 mg per week, estrogen may be an issue. I don’t get folks who are blind to recent data on both EQ and especially primo as estrogen suppressors. One of primo’s metabolites IS an ai. There is zero debate on this.

EQ is known to impact the estrogen receptor as well. By shunting down the test to estrogen metabolism, it also forces a higher DHT conversion from the test itself. Test will be broken down into estrogen or dht. When one pathway is blocked, the other up regulates. The recent data over the last few years is pretty strong and most of elite coaches and experts are all in agreement.

You can agree or not, but the research is there and the OP should make up their own mind regardless of what you and I say.

first of all show me these studies lol because no one has seen such studies and generally on the subject of EQ there is practically no research at all

and not everyone will have low E2 using EQ or primo - it is true that in most people you will notice it but not everyone reacts like that and it is the same as saying that you cannot use 2 nandrolones at the same time - what difference does it make whether you use e.g. 400mg deca and 200mg tren or 600mg deca alone - the progesterone response will be very similar, the same in EQ and primo both have unique features so using 2 at the same time in smaller doses is not bad and undesirable - it all depends on what we want to get from such a combination

 

[my_way]

first of all show me these studies lol because no one has seen such studies and generally on the subject of EQ there is practically no research at all

and not everyone will have low E2 using EQ or primo - it is true that in most people you will notice it but not everyone reacts like that and it is the same as saying that you cannot use 2 nandrolones at the same time - what difference does it make whether you use e.g. 400mg deca and 200mg tren or 600mg deca alone - the progesterone response will be very similar, the same in EQ and primo both have unique features so using 2 at the same time in smaller doses is not bad and undesirable - it all depends on what we want to get from such a combination

And even if they did have low e2 it’s not that big of a deal when guys are taking decent amount of total mg. If you’re not having joint pain then there’s no issue.

 

[KingOfSushi]

Yeah I’m probably In the same boat as you

Have had eq in for a long time now, think it’s time to temporarily drop it for a bit. Not experiencing any negative mental sides, just feel it’s time to maybe rotate it out, and if that helps with my sleep or something then I definitely wouldn’t complain.

What negatives are you experiencing from it?

I wouldn’t rotate out a compound “just because”. If you’re growing well on it, no sides, and bloods are good… that’s all you can ask for.

 

[headtrainer]

No steroids give a mood boost

Have you tried a combo of testosterone, Trestolone and proviron? This stack helps my mood.

 

[hotrod]

masteron is a DHT derivative though.

Have you checked your estrogen in regards to EQs effect on your anxiety? i believe a lot of people that experience anxiety on EQ is from crushing their estrogen. But it makes sense that you would get some anxiety if it jacks up your RBCs as well.

EQ doesn't lower estrogen, it will aromatize but only about 10 t0 20 percent as much as testosterone

 

[EFShadow]

Thank you for agreeing that most people would have an issue with running that dose of primo and eq together.

 

[EFShadow]

EQ doesn't lower estrogen, it will aromatize but only about 10 t0 20 percent as much as testosterone

It alters the conversion rate of testosterone by agonizing the estrogen beta receptor, thereby increasing the conversion of testosterone to estrone and reducing the conversion into e2.

 

[hotrod]

It alters the conversion rate of testosterone by agonizing the estrogen beta receptor, thereby increasing the conversion of testosterone to estrone and reducing the conversion into e2.

I've read that' but in real life I've never really saw it. Some things that witnessed in a study environment doesn't correlate to real world results.

 

[juiceball44]

EQ doesn't lower estrogen, it will aromatize but only about 10 t0 20 percent as much as testosterone

What are you talking about Eq tanks my estrogen even with higher testosterone almost down to single digits e2 sensitive test

 

[Mufasa123]

EQ doesn't lower estrogen, it will aromatize but only about 10 t0 20 percent as much as testosterone

750 test, 500 Deca and 600 equipoise zeroed E2 sensative. I needed a gram of test to get low 20s. This is E2 sensative and on 200 test/200 deca I probably 80s on E2. EQ aromatization quoted by many is thought to be specifically estrone not estradiol.

This is all fairly individual as far as impact and magnitude but it is commonly found and test results verify on others in this forum and all over the net. This is also evidence of how rare bloodwork among steroid users has been in the last 50 years.

 

[my_way]

750 test, 500 Deca and 600 equipoise zeroed E2 sensative. I needed a gram of test to get low 20s. This is E2 sensative and on 200 test/200 deca I probably 80s on E2. EQ aromatization quoted by many is thought to be specifically estrone not estradiol.

This is all fairly individual as far as impact and magnitude but it is commonly found and test results verify on others in this forum and all over the net. This is also evidence of how rare bloodwork among steroid users has been in the last 50 years.

What symptoms did you experience with that low e2?

 

[Mufasa123]

What symptoms did you experience with that low e2?

Low E2 hits me with joint (elbows first then others) and lower back pain/tightness (I guess from drying it out). I don't really notice much else and I typically do something about it. Mood and sexual function don't seem impacted outside of pain/stiffness. Obviously I'm getting bloods but when that crap shows up I know I've screwed up, nevertheless bloods anyway. I stayed on eq a bit longer one time just to get a decent E2 read on 1000 test vs the 750.

I don't get anything like that with winstrol or any "drying" compound. It's fixed once I can get E2 up. Enough AI can do the same for sure. Deca also doesn't help with it despite great benefit to me in nearly all other cases.

 

[hotrod]

What are you talking about Eq tanks my estrogen even with higher testosterone almost down to single digits e2 sensitive test

Never has with me or anyone I've ever tested, not saying it won't just have never witnessed it.

 

[Mufasa123]

Never has with me or anyone I've ever tested, not saying it won't just have never witnessed it.

Tons of testing showing up last few years. One thing on the HRT+ crowd is that they have money, care about their health and monitor. Some of the bulk of first reports on 1) eq lowering E2 2) primo lowering E2 3) primo hitting HDL even at moderate doses.

I have copious bloods back 15ish years (used peds on/off since 1990s). I can confirm 1-3 above on me. Exception is I haven't run primo under 600mg weekly (stellar bloods except HDL hit is near the same as 350mg of tren and 50mg Ed winstrol in a stack) so I don't know how low I can go before HDL hit shows. Primo lowers E2 some like 50% on 500 test 600 primo - leaves me at or just above top of normal male range. Equipoise, per above testing, is my E2 doom.

Like I said, individual as to impact and severity. Going theory is that E2 hit is caused by metabolites of these compounds.

Basically what we know and surmise now https://thinksteroids.com/articles/primobolan-equipoise-crashed-my-e2-help/

 

[hotrod]

Not disagreeing, I've just learned after 40 years of doing this I don't always believe studies they get tainted because of people not telling the truth bad study guidelines and of course studies paid that are tainted because of money, the big denominator. You can do blood work once and get a totally different result in 5 to 7 days. You have to do multiple test in succession to get trends especially with things like estrogen thyroid etc. If it lowers your E2 i believe you.

 

[Mufasa123]

Not disagreeing, I've just learned after 40 years of doing this I don't always believe studies they get tainted because of people not telling the truth bad study guidelines and of course studies paid that are tainted because of money, the big denominator. You can do blood work once and get a totally different result in 5 to 7 days. You have to do multiple test in succession to get trends especially with things like estrogen thyroid etc. If it lowers your E2 i believe you.

Healthy skepticism is after all... healthy. Hearing it a bunch was one thing but on myself and multiple tests...wow.

For what it's worth primo E2 and HDL hits were replicated on 3 different cycles over 3 years (as these were 18-20 week runs some runs had more than 1 test). 2 different primo providers and same exact batch of test enanthate at same dosage (been using said batch for years so easy to isolate non-testosterone compound in addition to having absolute faith and confidence in my testosterone).

Equipoise was a single run as I'd never used the compound oddly and wanted to test it out. Crashed E2 verified and increasing test to a gram brought E2 to low 20s before I dropped it. Still looking to use it again albeit now I have a better idea of ratio I might need. Blew up my blast on a 'throw in to try out and get bloods' but at least I salvaged some info/knowledge on individual response.

Welcome to my OCD lifestyle! Lots of people replicating exactly this too via bloods and same impacts to same compounds. That 2023 paper from Type-IIx was written because of the clearly mounting data. Might not effect you or some others though. Plenty of dudes running high equipoise without major issues and maybe if I wasn't older, a little beat up already, and getting bloods as often as I do, I'd not have experienced the typical for me low E2 joint issues and tested.

End of the day, we are all just sharing info trying to help out each other and the collective community.

 

[KingOfSushi]

EQ doesn't lower estrogen

not saying it won't

Hmm