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Does PROTEIN build MUSCLE??

Putin

Banned
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Oct 19, 2005
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574
Dietary Carbohydrate Deprivation Increases 24-Hour Nitrogen Excretion without Affecting Postabsorptive Hepatic or Whole Body Protein Metabolism in Healthy Men


Because insulin is an important regulator of protein metabolism, we hypothesized that physiological modulation of insulin secretion, by means of extreme variations in dietary carbohydrate content, affects postabsorptive protein metabolism. Therefore, we studied the effects of three isocaloric diets with identical protein content and low-carbohydrate/high-fat (2% and 83% of total energy, respectively), intermediate-carbohydrate/intermediate-fat (44% and 41% of total energy, respectively), and high-carbohydrate/low-fat (85% and 0% of total energy, respectively) content in six healthy men. Whole body protein metabolism was assessed by 24-h urinary nitrogen excretion, postabsorptive leucine kinetics, and fibrinogen and albumin synthesis by infusion of [1-13C]leucine and [1-13C]valine.

The low-carbohydrate/high-fat diet resulted in lower absorptive and postabsorptive plasma insulin concentrations, and higher rates of nitrogen excretion compared with the other two diets: 15.3 ± 0.9 vs. 12.1 ± 1.1 (P = 0.03) and 10.8 ± 0.5 g/24 h (P = 0.005), respectively. Postabsorptive rates of appearance of leucine and of leucine oxidation were not different among the three diets. In addition, dietary carbohydrate content did not affect the synthesis rates of fibrinogen and albumin.

In conclusion, eucaloric carbohydrate deprivation increases 24-h nitrogen loss but does not affect postabsorptive protein metabolism at the hepatic and whole body level. By deduction, dietary carbohydrate is required for an optimal regulation of absorptive, rather than postabsorptive, protein metabolism.

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Stimulation of protein turnover by carbohydrate overfeeding in men

S. Welle, D. E. Matthews, R. G. Campbell and K. S. Nair
Endocrine-Metabolism Unit, Monroe Community Hospital, University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry 14603.

The effect of carbohydrate overfeeding on protein metabolism was studied in 11 healthy men. Total urinary nitrogen output during 10 days of carbohydrate overfeeding (1,600 extra kcal/day) decreased 27% relative to nitrogen excretion during 10 days of weight maintenance, indicating protein accretion during over-feeding. However, postabsorptive nitrogen excretion did not change, which means that the positive nitrogen balance associated with overfeeding results from enhanced postprandial nitrogen retention. Overfeeding reduced postabsorptive glucose concentrations 4 +/- 1% and increased glucose production rate 14 +/- 2% and glucose clearance 17 +/- 4%. Overfeeding increased plasma concentrations of insulin, glucagon, and 3,5,3'-triiodothyronine approximately 20%. Alanine and branched-chain amino acid concentrations were increased after overfeeding, but serine, threonine, and asparagine concentrations were reduced. Postabsorptive leucine flux, which is an index of proteolysis, was measured using L-[1-13C]leucine as a tracer. Overfeeding increased leucine flux 13 +/- 2% compared with values after 10 days on a weight-maintenance diet. If it is assumed that overfeeding did not alter the fraction of 13CO2 not recovered in breath, there was no change in the portion of leucine flux that was oxidized. Thus the difference between flux and oxidation, which is a theoretical index of protein synthesis, increased 12 +/- 3% after overfeeding. These data suggest that excess caloric intake, without an increase in protein intake, stimulates post-absorptive proteolysis and protein synthesis.

The Strength and Power Athlete

Individuals that are involved in strength and power type sports like bodybuilding, powerlifting, football or sprinting may have even higher dietary protein needs than the endurance athlete to maintain a positive nitrogen balance. These athletes have felt for many years that increased protein consumption would promote an accelerated rate of muscle synthesis and decrease the rate of protein catabolism, resulting in greater muscle mass accumulation. There are many conflicting views over how much protein is actually needed to optimally increase muscle mass and/or strength. However, Williams (1985) feels there is sufficient data available to make some general conclusions. It is generally agreed that a pound of muscle contains about 100 g of actual protein. So in order to gain one pound of muscle mass per week we would need to consume at least 14.29 g of extra protein per day along with the additional calories (100 / 7 = 14.29). While it is not know exactly how many extra calories are necessary to synthesize a pound of muscle mass, the National Research Council notes that 5 calories are needed to support one gram of lean tissue growth (Williams, 1992). So simple math would tell us that 500 extra calories (5 x 100 = 500) may be also necessary every day to gain one pound of lean tissue per week.

Tarnopolsky et al. (1992) using both nitrogen balance and metabolic tracers methodology recommended between that 1.4 and 2.4 g/kg/d for athletes involved in strength and power exercise. Later 1.76 g/kg/d was recommended as the accepted RDA for strength and power athletes by Lemon et al (1992) and Tarnopolsky. These studies showed that whole body protein synthesis was elevated at these intakes without an increase in protein oxidation.

Fern et al. (1991) found that 2.4 g/kg/d was considered protein overload, thus providing no further increase in protein synthesis for strength and power athletes. When strength athletes increased their protein consumption to 2.4 g/kg/d amino acid oxidation increased, but there was no further protein synthesis. Researchers considered this to clearly indicate a protein overload.

It is interesting to note that Consolazio et al. (1975) Marabel et al. (1979), and Dragan et al. (1985) all reported larger increases in strength, lean body mass (LBM) and nitrogen with much higher protein intakes (3.3, 2.8, and 3.5 g/kg/d respectively). These reports tend to corroborate the more anecdotal beliefs of weight lifters that extremely high dietary protein intakes are essential for optimal muscular development.

While these results are very interesting, they still did not prove that higher intakes of more than 2.4 g/kg/d actually were responsible for improving muscle mass during resistance training. Researchers are not exactly sure what role the extra calories might have provided by consuming that much extra protein, could have had on protein synthesis. It is suspected that the more calories you take in over energy balance, the less protein you may actually need for optimal protein synthesis (Bucci 1993). In any case a higher protein intake has not been shown to impede sports that involve strength and power.
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So when amino acids are not being used to build protein or make other nitrogen-containing compounds, amino acids are “wasted” in a sense. This wasting occurs under any of four conditions:
(1) when there is not enough energy from other sources:
(2) when there is too much protein. So that not all is needed:
(3) when there is too much of any amino acid from supplements:
(4) when the diet’s protein is of to low quality, with to few essential amino acids. To prevent the wasting of dietary protein, and permit the synthesis of needed body protein, three conditions must be met. First, the dietary protein must be adequate in quality. Second, it must supply all essential amino acids in the proper amounts. Third, enough energy yielding carbohydrate and fat must be present, to permit the dietary protein to be used for body requirements and not for energy. Remember that carbohydrates are protein sparing and conserves tissue protein.


J Nutr 2002 Oct;132(10):3225S-7S
Latency, duration and dose response relationships of amino acid effects on human muscle protein synthesis.
Rennie MJ, Bohe J, Wolfe RR Division of Molecular Physiology, School of Life Sciences, University of Dundee, Scotland, United Kingdom. [email protected]

The components of the stimulatory effect of food on net deposition of protein are beginning to be identified and separated. One of the most important of these appears to be the effect of amino acids per se in stimulating muscle anabolism. Amino acids appear to have a linear stimulatory effect within the range of normal diurnal plasma concentrations from postabsorptive to postprandial. Within this range, muscle protein synthesis (measured by incorporation of stable isotope tracers of amino acids into biopsied muscle protein) appears to be stimulated approximately twofold; however, little further increase occurs when very high concentrations of amino acids (>2.5 times the normal postabsorptive plasma concentration) are made available. Amino acids provided in surfeit of the ability of the system to synthesize protein are disposed of by oxidation, ureagenesis and gluconeogenesis. The stimulatory effect of amino acids appears to be time dependent; a square wave increase in the availability of amino acids causes muscle protein synthesis to be stimulated and to fall back to basal values, despite continued amino acid availability. The relationship between muscle protein synthesis and insulin availability suggests that most of the stimulatory effects occur at low insulin concentrations, with large increases having no effect. These findings may have implications for our understanding of the body's requirements for protein. The maximal capacity for storage of amino acids as muscle protein probably sets an upper value on the extent to which amino acids can be stored after a single meal. [Note: this reveals the false belief in body builders that enormous amounts of protein produce more muscle mass.]
 
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Thank you. Ive always said that carbs were absolutely necessary for building lean tissue, in fact, a balance of all three macronutrients. Protein is only 1 part of the equation which people seem to overstress.
 
why don't you try it and see what happens? i mean, calculate the amount of calories needed to add lean mass, and try 2.4g/kg or protein and the rest in carbs and fats... 3 weeks later, increase protein to 4.4 g/kg and decrease carbs and fats accordingly to fit your previous caloric intake for another 3 weeks.
 
So basically for those trying to gain muscle make sure you are getting in enough cals, prot/carbs/fats and eat whole healthy foods, take a little steroids and the body will sort all the rest out. LOL. KISS!
 
Exactly, dont overcomplicate things. People are worrying too much about things they cannot change, instead of concentrating on that which is under their control (diet/training/supplementation).
 
why don't you try it and see what happens? i mean, calculate the amount of calories needed to add lean mass, and try 2.4g/kg or protein and the rest in carbs and fats... 3 weeks later, increase protein to 4.4 g/kg and decrease carbs and fats accordingly to fit your previous caloric intake for another 3 weeks.

I actually did, for 6 mnths and then for 12mnths. I experimented twice with higher protein versus lower protein. No difference with higher protein.

Thank you. Ive always said that carbs were absolutely necessary for building lean tissue, in fact, a balance of all three macronutrients. Protein is only 1 part of the equation which people seem to overstress.

You're right about the equation thing. Too many people look only for ONE thing out of the equation to make them big, HGH for example, or IGF1 (when there are 3 that work together), or T3 (when there are T1, T2, T3, T4), we need all of those because they work together. Just because the scientists cant figure out what the other T's do in the body, doesnt mean they're useless.
 
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If protein does not build muscle as you appear to be attempting to imply, then why would you need it at all?
 
research

From the abstracts it is difficult to make blank statements since they have different variables measured, different samples and different goals to test. In general terms people who are not using AAS should have a more balanced approach to macronutrient timing and percentages.

What I gather from the research:

1. Excess protein above a certain amount (individually anallyzed) will not yield greater muscular increase.

2. The need to have carbohydrates in the diet (at a set minimum) is needed for the creation of muscle tissue.

3. More important than fats, carbohydrates play a significant role with regards to muscle mass synthesis.

Now what is revolutionary of any of those facts. All well known from before. I am not disagreeing that some guys go overboard eating only protein meals, but there is a use for more protein in the diets.

I have personally never seen a muscular guy with a diet that is high carbs, high fat and low protein. Have seen plenty of obese persons though.
 
From the abstracts it is difficult to make blank statements since they have different variables measured, different samples and different goals to test. In general terms people who are not using AAS should have a more balanced approach to macronutrient timing and percentages.

What I gather from the research:

1. Excess protein above a certain amount (individually anallyzed) will not yield greater muscular increase.

2. The need to have carbohydrates in the diet (at a set minimum) is needed for the creation of muscle tissue.

3. More important than fats, carbohydrates play a significant role with regards to muscle mass synthesis.

Now what is revolutionary of any of those facts. All well known from before. I am not disagreeing that some guys go overboard eating only protein meals, but there is a use for more protein in the diets.

I have personally never seen a muscular guy with a diet that is high carbs, high fat and low protein. Have seen plenty of obese persons though.
You're correct. I'm not saying that you dont need protein or that its not needed to build muscle. I'm saying that too many people believe that the MORE you take the MORE muscle you can create within a period of time. (like the more steroids you take the bigger you can get) The equation doesnt add up if you do the math.
 
so what conclusion have we come to as far as how much protein to cosume per body pound? ive always stuck with around 1.5-2grams per lb. i do know that you dont need that much to grow, i think we all started lifting weights without taking protein supplements and still built lean muscle and strength. look at guys on the prison yards who havent had a protein drink in years if ever but definitly have a very muscular physique.
 
I actually did, for 6 mnths and then for 12mnths. I experimented twice with higher protein versus lower protein. No difference with higher protein....

So did I, and the muscular gains were the same, just as you found, but with the higher carbs I got awfull fat. High protein and lower carbs gave me gains that were lean.
 
I tend to agree with the statement made "More protein does not mean more muscle" just as more juice does not mean more growth. The real question is how much is enough for growth? We must have protein in our diet to grow, we all seem to agree there. Protein is essential in our diets for other function as well as repair and growth of muscle tissue. Just as carbs and fats are also essential. Too much of any of those will make you fat. How much protein can the body utilize at any one time 20, 30, 40, 100 gms per meal. I have read that 30 seems to be a magic number. So 30 gms per feed x 5-6 feeds should equal 150-180 gms total. So then 500gms is not needed?? I have also read that for bbing purposes we have grossly underestimated our requirements and the figure of 350-500gm is about right. I simply try to eat as much protein in a day as possible. if I don't get 350-500 per day I do not stress. I try not to make this protein thing too complicated. I also agree that you can grow on less protein as long as there is nutrition and training. It simply becomes a matter of how much protein is required for "OPTIMAL" gains not that you will not gain on lower protein!
 
I don't grow unless I surpass 400
 
me too
 

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