DoggCrapp - When you were abusing Tren?

[DOGGCRAPP]

Dante:

I have been to many endos gp's and urologists & they don't believe 315 total test is low ..& they never look at free test.

I already take zinc/d3/boron 3mg daily/citriline malate/taurine/creatine mono/bcaa.

Have any advice ? I was going to add d asparic acid and maybe EAAS from TN, but not sure.

Any suggestions?

Thats a huge problem with doctors nowadays...I honestly would find another endo who is more open minded and has your health in mind.....thats ridiculous...you are 60 off the lowest end of the range. I wouldnt stand for it myself....one phone call and a fax of that test level to many places across the USA and you would have prescription test, hcg, and arimidex in your mailbox in days

 

[Swifto]

Ive tried some before from other companies and i was sour on it because I saw nothing but ive seen others use source naturals brand....and tried it myself....and that effected my bloodwork

So 400mg per day of DIM by Source Naturals, correct?

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

So 400mg per day of DIM by Source Naturals, correct?

thats what ive used....but i was using it with my reg dose of exemestane and it knocked it way too low so i dropped the exemestane and will see what happens this time around...ive only done bloodwork once while using it but the drop was dramatic and ive had a couple guys on facebook send me bloodwork using the same SN brand....with some of the same effects....

 

[mister69]

Thats a huge problem with doctors nowadays...I honestly would find another endo who is more open minded and has your health in mind.....thats ridiculous...you are 60 off the lowest end of the range. I wouldnt stand for it myself....one phone call and a fax of that test level to many places across the USA and you would have prescription test, hcg, and arimidex in your mailbox in days

Thanks Dante. I'll look for another end0

If I don't have any success or until I do. Would d asparic acid help?

I already eat healthy fats (grass fed beef fish oil etc) .

Am I taking enough of these for about 185 lbs 11%bf. daily: taurine 3grams / citriline 6g/ boron 3mg/ 5,000 d3 ? I'll take any pointers .

 

[j2048b]

Ok dante how does dim work and ic3? Ive seen u mention both but not sure how they work and especially together?

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[LATS]

Just doing DIM myself Lats but i do 2 tabs morn and 2 tabs nite...ill see where that puts me next bloodwork...i dropped the aromasin after i was using DIM with it and my estradiol was way too low

Yeah I'm doing 100 mg in the morning and 100 mg in the evening of DIM.. I was doing 200 mg in morning and 200 mgs in evening and it felt like it was too much.. I'll see where 200 total mgs puts me next week..

 

[LATS]

My dosage ranged between 200-600mg daily.

600 mgs would be way off the charts in my opinion.. If you were to try again on a trt dose Id think 200-300 total mgs a day would be enough..

 

[aussiebulldog]

18 months of tren . How long after till you recovered . Also any sides when you stopped tren ? Did you taper or just come off . You see anything on the bloods after 18months on ?


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I guess being on 21-27 mg a week was nothing much to recover from. felt weaker for the first 4-5 weeks and lower sex drive , but it was mad before. as far as blood nothing much , but I did donate blood a couple of times.

 

[aussiebulldog]

What kind of changes did you see in your bloods, bp, and heart rate on the low dose of tren as opposed to when off?

Very mild changes. crazy thing us that my blood pressure improved a bit from being 140 on top to around the 130. All and all I had a different feeling of well being that I miss now.

 

[frink71]

Looking into DIM now, as always, check examine!

https://examine.com/supplements/diindolylmethane/

Heres a snippet:

"In small amounts, it can both inhibit the aromatase enzyme (and prevent conversion of testosterone into estrogen) and it can act on more potent forms of estrogen and convert them into less potent forms; this conversion reduces the overall effects of estrogen in the body.

However, taking too much DIM at once can actually induce the aromatase enzyme and act in the opposite manner and increase estrogen synthesis."

As far as increasing/decreasing, there's a good chance 600mg is just too much

 

[DannyAbs]

We have tried and tried and tried and experimented probably 20 times so far with different flavor houses and different flavor chemists....its not there yet. This is a very important decision for my company....so im being very calculating and cautious. I want to do it yesterday but......if you remember years ago we had "free flavors"...and free flavors were flavors that were cheap so we paid for them and we felt they were acceptable. They were adequate. Adequate does not cut it. All I heard online is how TN's flavors suck and (in my opinion the free flavors that everyone said they wanted us to keep) werent great. Once you create that "I hate the taste of that companys product" thats a very hard branding to break. We did away with those free flavors and went with our flavor system that we worked on for 2 years that people rave about. {Alot of people freaked out about us doing away with the free flavors which surprised the hell out of us because we used to get so many complaints about them}....Now the majority of people absolutely love the way TN's stuff tastes as these new flavors do kickass. So IM a big believer in monk fruit because some people have ragweed allergy (stevia) and some people dont like sucralose but there are 2 probs
a) monkfruit is so expensive....way more expensive than stevia. But just like stevia's prices with time that will come down. Regardless we forge on trying to implement monk fruit
b) It is extremely hard to get monkfruits sweetener flavor profile dialed in. It HAS...ABSOLUTELY HAS to taste better or at least just as good as what we have now....and ive tried side by side comparisons time and time again with the monk fruit prototypes vs what we have now....and what we have now still beats the pants off of it. (im not the only one trying...we bring in other employees and even have wives/girlfriends give it a go)....its kind of like the difference between an OREO cookie made by OREO and the grocery store knockoff version of an OREO cookie....its just not cutting it....yet

Dante,

Thanks for the detailed response! I'm a big fan of your company and the products that you provide. I look forward to what you bring to the table in the future.

 

[goback2013]

yeah i may too sensitive to DIM, as i started getting puffy nipples while taking it.
seems to be common based on my google searches.

Looking into DIM now, as always, check examine!

https://examine.com/supplements/diindolylmethane/

Heres a snippet:

"In small amounts, it can both inhibit the aromatase enzyme (and prevent conversion of testosterone into estrogen) and it can act on more potent forms of estrogen and convert them into less potent forms; this conversion reduces the overall effects of estrogen in the body.

However, taking too much DIM at once can actually induce the aromatase enzyme and act in the opposite manner and increase estrogen synthesis."

As far as increasing/decreasing, there's a good chance 600mg is just too much

 

[Knight9]

As far as DIM goes, I have not used it..but did look into it about two years back. I am considering replacing my Arimidex .5mg 2x a week with DIM. It seems that too much DIM can have a negative effect, however I wonder how effective and stable it is to use continuously. If over time, it becomes less effective or has negatives.

It sure would be nice if big pharma and RX costs for Aromasin were reasonable. Or if there was quality control of it on the underground.

 

[LATS]

I've added 6.25 of Aroma sin EOD to my 175mgs of test and 200mgs of DIM.. I didn't feel 200mgs was bringing my e stro down much.. and I have been on numerous t rt boards and many are saying that 300-400mgs of DIM are increasing e stro to much for them.. I'd love it to be my only anti e ( so to speak).. but I'm more concerned about it's positive effects on prostate health and conversion of bad e stro to less damaging estro.. now the fact that it may let me take less aromasin then it's a even bigger plus .

 

[wtw11171]

Good info thanks for the post. Pax

 

[nothuman]

I started 10mg tren ace daily this past week. Upping it to 15mg daily today since no bad effects so far. Hoping I tolerate this dose just fine. So far so good.

 

[lntense]

No and Ill tell you why and this probably wont go over well in here so let me state up front this is just my personal reasoning and my personal choice (someone will still get mad at me for saying it)

The pharm world long ago decided they would try their hand at tweaking testosterone and came forward with steroids....which they deemed safer. Well that hasnt necessarily played out has it?

If you use the average dose of any oral steroid...it skewers your lipids especially plummeting your hdl and over time can create toxicity
If you use tren in the average dose, it skewers your lipids, seems to be neuro toxic of late, is not good for your mental wellbeing, your prostate and over time seems to be kidney toxic
If you use equipoise or deca your RBC's go up rapidly (especially in older people), so you have high hematocrit/hemoglobin, I dont like the endothelial damage that has been previously reported, and sexual side effects (especially deca in that case)
Anavar which people back in the day thought was ungodly safe....take a 12 week run of Var and run bloodwork....your hdl will have dropped so much youll start wondering of the plaque buildup you might have caused for yourself.
and on and on and on.....so much for mans tweaking to make things safer.
Ive looked over so many pro's and am's bloodwork now over the years and they have reported what they were taking (especially when they had bad bloodwork and I needed to know from them what they were taking so i could fix their bloodwork).....that the following has been imprinted in my mind:

Bioidentical is the way to go. You take an average dose of testosterone and it truly creates the least side effects with people....and the least effects on their bloodwork. Older people have to watch hemat/hemo but besides that...thats about it.....the bloodwork is pretty much normal or stellar with average testosterone use.
So again so much for science trying to tweak things to make them better....the tried and true to me is using what the human body already makes...and thats 2 things. Testosterone and GH. You start getting into cleaving something over here off the natural hormone it seems to have a detrimental side effect over there. So thats why you have seen me say alot in this forum that most of your offseason (if you are a bodybuilder and thats the goal)...you should probably be using testosterone and gh and when you get near a show "you got to do what you got to do"....there in the offseason with the testosterone usage you take care of any and all side effects your chosen mg dosage of testosterone usage imparts (estrogen, HBP).....
The problem is in modern day society this isnt about bodybuilding anymore (or health) and Joe Dude who is 21 to 35 wants to look hard for the chicks and for the beach....and tren, masteron, and var gets that done (and they never ever even think about getting bloodwork so its out of sight out of mind and no worries!)
In a TRT sense for longevity and health, my opinion is you stay bioidentical (test and gh)....
I tried the 7mg tren experiment because there is no greater steroid mg for mg than tren so i theorized maybe i could use such a small dosage of it that no side effects would come forward...but in my case (PSA) they did (not dramatically but enough that I didnt feel comfortable with it)...so the only thing pretty much that its been for me since 2008/2009 has been low dose test....the only thing at this point i would maybe try with it most likely is inj primobolan and I would see what bloodwork said as to that....thats pretty much the only thing I would be comfortable in trying at this point but i have no plans on doing so. I do use 1.5 IUs of gh a day with my TRT but I think you were asking me about things besides the low dose tren experiment

I agree with everything you said. I'm not even in need of gh at my age.


My question is how do you feel about a low dose of proviron? like 25mg/day or very low masteron?

I believe it to be relatively safe, with the exception of some males being subject to prostate issues but even test alone can aggravate that.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I agree with everything you said. I'm not even in need of gh at my age.


My question is how do you feel about a low dose of proviron? like 25mg/day or very low masteron?

I believe it to be relatively safe, with the exception of some males being subject to prostate issues but even test alone can aggravate that.

Sorry been gone on vacation all week with the kids (Universal Studios, Knotts Berry Farm, Disney)....

Yep I would agree with you there...prostate is what is going to probably be the deciding factor in that one. If bloodwork smack dab in the middle of using that can prove it out....then Im for it...

 

[nothuman]

Sorry been gone on vacation all week with the kids (Universal Studios, Knotts Berry Farm, Disney)....

Yep I would agree with you there...prostate is what is going to probably be the deciding factor in that one. If bloodwork smack dab in the middle of using that can prove it out....then Im for it...

Any increase in your heart rate from the 1.5iu gh? Trying to see whom this effects.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Any increase in your heart rate from the 1.5iu gh? Trying to see whom this effects.

It does go up....probably 10bpm
I do know you have severe bloating problems with GH....My carbs are minimized (post workout meal only usually and even then only like 10-15 grams)...and i keep my water intake high all day long.....that takes care of all bloating problems