Dopamine replacement

[Thebigone]

I'm having difficulty understanding how dopamine is restored. I'm trying to slowly taper off adderall and having a rough time. I'm on 20mg lexapro and my Dr. recently told me that he may have me add a little bit of Wellbutrin to help with weening off adderall but still keep me on lexapro as Wellbutrin doesn't increase serotonin only dopamine and norepinephrine. Here is where I'm confused. I understand adderall artificially increases dopamine and when stopping your natural levels are depleted. That makes sense. What I don't get is why will caber or prami not fix the problem? A member posted they are selective agonists for a selective subtype of dopamine receptors not general dopamine and can make you feel worse. I don't understand this. And also I researched Wellbutrin and it says it is a norepinephrine and dopamine reuptake inhibitor. It blocks transporters for chemicals norepinephrine and dopamine, increasing amounts of both chemicals in the brain. So does that mean it replaces general dopamine and can fix the problem of depleted dopamine from going off adderall?

 

[b_cornelius]

Adderall is both a releasing agent and a reuptake inhibitor. Wellbutrin, is a substituted amphetamine that will do nicely as a cushion.

Here's a solid list of the mechanisms involved.

Dopamine receptor: there are several types of dopamine receptors located in different places. Some Agonists are selective for specific receptors. If you have severe down-regulation, then replacing your dopamine with Agonists aren't going to help the problem.

Trace Amine-Associated Receptor (TAAR): Adderall's chief contribution is that is activates the TAAR. The TAAR basically senses for metabolites of Dopamine or "trace amines," and TAAR is basically part of a feedback system. Adderall is a trace amine that has been methylated so that it can hijack this feedback system.

Reuptake Transport Proteins These transport the dopamine back into storage. Dopamine is organized and stored; you'd have to look into this. Once you come off the Adderall, these DATransporter levels could rebound, so it would be good to take a selective reuptake inhibitor like Bupropion.

Dopamine Metabolism Dopamine is metabolized by enzymes and such. This process can be slowed by MAOIs such as Selegiline (which preserves the dopamine that you do have). It's important to note that Adderall is just a methylated metabolite of dopamine.


300mg Bupropion HCL and 2mg Selegiline HCL is a solid combination that I have used carefully. Receptor up-regulation is another issue. But you'd really have to discuss what you are trying to accomplish here. I mean, for cases such as ADHD, Adderall isn't prescribed so that you "feel it": furthermore, selective down regulation may actually be a part of the treatment.

 

[SparkDogg]

L-Dopa is a direct precursor to Dopamine, kind of like how 5-HTP is a direct precursor to Seratonin.

Anyway, you can get a supplement called Mucuna Pruriens which contains L-Dopa, and it will raise your levels of Dopamine. It's kind of a bitch to find, whereas 5-HTP is fairly easy to find.

In the past, I've used the two together to get over the funk of party-induced (including, but not limited to, Adderall) low levels of Dopamine and Seratonin.

Completely anecdotal, but it really seemed to speed up the recovery process for me.

Good luck

 

[Thebigone]

Adderall is both a releasing agent and a reuptake inhibitor. Wellbutrin, is a substituted amphetamine that will do nicely as a cushion.

Here's a solid list of the mechanisms involved.

Dopamine receptor: there are several types of dopamine receptors located in different places. Some Agonists are selective for specific receptors. If you have severe down-regulation, then replacing your dopamine with Agonists aren't going to help the problem.

Trace Amine-Associated Receptor (TAAR): Adderall's chief contribution is that is activates the TAAR. The TAAR basically senses for metabolites of Dopamine or "trace amines," and TAAR is basically part of a feedback system. Adderall is a trace amine that has been methylated so that it can hijack this feedback system.

Reuptake Transport Proteins These transport the dopamine back into storage. Dopamine is organized and stored; you'd have to look into this. Once you come off the Adderall, these DATransporter levels could rebound, so it would be good to take a selective reuptake inhibitor like Bupropion.

Dopamine Metabolism Dopamine is metabolized by enzymes and such. This process can be slowed by MAOIs such as Selegiline (which preserves the dopamine that you do have). It's important to note that Adderall is just a methylated metabolite of dopamine.


300mg Bupropion HCL and 2mg Selegiline HCL is a solid combination that I have used carefully. Receptor up-regulation is another issue. But you'd really have to discuss what you are trying to accomplish here. I mean, for cases such as ADHD, Adderall isn't prescribed so that you "feel it": furthermore, selective down regulation may actually be a part of the treatment.

Thank you very much for your feedback. My concern with Selegiline is that it can permanently shut down or take a very long time to restore dopamine when you stop using it. My goal is to eventually not need anything. Can Wellbutrin cause a permanent or very long shutdown of dopamine or will only Selegiline do that?

 

[Stewie]

Neurorestoratology has many neural circuitry components. You can not treat in isolation. We have a multi-complex of neurotransmitters that are intertwined and respond with gut microbiome, sex hormones, cytokines, degrees of hypoxia, brain glycogen and ketones levels, ect.

And not to mention the the neurotoxicity, attributed from Adderall and the potential of myelin dysfunction/degradation from Adderall.

I would address the latter, before introducing other DA reinforcers.

 

[Thebigone]

Neurorestoratology has many neural circuitry components. You can not treat in isolation. We have a multi-complex of neurotransmitters that are intertwined and respond with gut microbiome, sex hormones, cytokines, degrees of hypoxia, brain glycogen and ketones levels, ect.

And not to mention the the neurotoxicity, attributed from Adderall and the potential of myelin dysfunction/degradation from Adderall.

I would address the latter, before introducing other DA reinforcers.

How long would one have to be on adderall to have myelin dysfunction/degradation?

 

[Stewie]

How long would one have to be on adderall to have myelin dysfunction/degradation?

That's really unknown, I dunno. Dosage and duration of an amphetamine, age and other demyelinating factors such as uncontrolled sleep apnea, nutritional deficiencies, genetics, ect come into the context of this.

Uncontrolled insomnia wreaks havoc on keeping toxins within our brain. Keep that in mind

Bridging between different DA drugs can be of benefit, as b_cornelius pointed out. Highlighting the key words he addressed is of paramount: "is a solid combination that I have used carefully".

If you have an addictive behavior with lack of self-control, you'll more than likely be chasing the dragon. As amphetamines come at the cost of tachyphylaxis, requiring you too keep upping the ante.

 

[LK3]

I'm having difficulty understanding how dopamine is restored. I'm trying to slowly taper off adderall and having a rough time. I'm on 20mg lexapro and my Dr. recently told me that he may have me add a little bit of Wellbutrin to help with weening off adderall but still keep me on lexapro as Wellbutrin doesn't increase serotonin only dopamine and norepinephrine. Here is where I'm confused. I understand adderall artificially increases dopamine and when stopping your natural levels are depleted. That makes sense. What I don't get is why will caber or prami not fix the problem? A member posted they are selective agonists for a selective subtype of dopamine receptors not general dopamine and can make you feel worse. I don't understand this. And also I researched Wellbutrin and it says it is a norepinephrine and dopamine reuptake inhibitor. It blocks transporters for chemicals norepinephrine and dopamine, increasing amounts of both chemicals in the brain. So does that mean it replaces general dopamine and can fix the problem of depleted dopamine from going off adderall?

you need to think like aas, to put it simply...


taking caber or prami is giving you a synthetic agent that replaces your own dopamine...

just like taking any outside hormone shuts down your endo test...

in theory some sups can help...

I have played with some but you also have to work at doing things to get your body to produce dopamine...

your body generates these chems through life experience... think when you fallin love... fucking dopamine high all the time...

to help restore your own function DO SHIT that makes your body produce dopamine... fucking, fighting, fleeing... translate them how you want but to really regain function you have to remove the drugs. then you have to wait a while... and its gona suck... lol this is why ppl so often just replace one addictive thing with another... which bring us to the bigger issue ultimately of dealing with addiction... or just fucked up brain chemistry.. lol

the dopamine issue is much bigger then drugs...

there are tons of sups which can help address various areas of this and make some parts easier.

I think in the end it does come down to your head n how u choose to dea lwith what goes on inside it. lol

 

[Thebigone]

you need to think like aas, to put it simply...


taking caber or prami is giving you a synthetic agent that replaces your own dopamine...

just like taking any outside hormone shuts down your endo test...

in theory some sups can help...

I have played with some but you also have to work at doing things to get your body to produce dopamine...

your body generates these chems through life experience... think when you fallin love... fucking dopamine high all the time...

to help restore your own function DO SHIT that makes your body produce dopamine... fucking, fighting, fleeing... translate them how you want but to really regain function you have to remove the drugs. then you have to wait a while... and its gona suck... lol this is why ppl so often just replace one addictive thing with another... which bring us to the bigger issue ultimately of dealing with addiction... or just fucked up brain chemistry.. lol

the dopamine issue is much bigger then drugs...

there are tons of sups which can help address various areas of this and make some parts easier.

I think in the end it does come down to your head n how u choose to dea lwith what goes on inside it. lol

Thanks. So even though I'm using adderall is my body still able to produce some of its natural dopamine or will that only occur when the adderall is discontinued?

 

[LK3]

Thanks. So even though I'm using adderall is my body still able to produce some of its natural dopamine or will that only occur when the adderall is discontinued?

to be honest I feel like that asking how much will just a lil test shut you down...

lol

it is more complicated then that and I am pretty sure there is no 100% answer to your question.

I have still felt emotion after things I wont speak of... lol
so I think it isn't a clear all or nothing thing...
tapering makes shit easier for some but there comes a point where you have to cut.

that applies to sup use too.

for example last time tried to recover from abuse I made my self a lil plan of the sups I would take it changed and adjusted... then I stopped taking sups that targeted dopamine n just focused on more natural things like actions and the other sups I generally stay on...

my "natural"' state is not good n most would say I need meds or treatment for life... prob true, to me its more a matter of choosing side effects and potential problems. lol

that natty shit is much more subtle but also much fewer side effects...

 

[dragonfire101]

That's really unknown, I dunno. Dosage and duration of an amphetamine, age and other demyelinating factors such as uncontrolled sleep apnea, nutritional deficiencies, genetics, ect come into the context of this.

Uncontrolled insomnia wreaks havoc on keeping toxins within our brain. Keep that in mind

Bridging between different DA drugs can be of benefit, as b_cornelius pointed out. Highlighting the key words he addressed is of paramount: "is a solid combination that I have used carefully".

If you have an addictive behavior with lack of self-control, you'll more than likely be chasing the dragon. As amphetamines come at the cost of tachyphylaxis, requiring you too keep upping the ante.

What supplements do you think are best for people don't have access to seleginine and Buproprion?

 

[Thebigone]

What about mondafinil for helping with dopamine.

How Modafinil Works on Neurotransmitters

 

[LK3]

What about mondafinil for helping with dopamine.

How Modafinil Works on Neurotransmitters

idk why this confuses you...
mod is a drug.
it shut down your dopamine production.
there is a study ON IT!!!!
5mg=shut down endo production for 24 hrs, does not return to baseline for 2 weeks.

that means you need to LIVE one it. never stop especially once we start talking anti aging and long term use.

direct correlation between dop levels age n death...

you have much more dopamine when younger, goes down a lot as you age...

taking this shit later in life is gona hurt your natty production even more...

don't twist my thinking here, I am not anti drug, just... the idea here is a good one, the drug options not so good. unless you are ok to need to live on some shit... my life I can not rely on being able to get shit like that always. my big concern would be using for a time the having some unforeseen shit come up n not being able to get it. then you gona be in a world of hurt...

this idea of help dopamine is not accurate...

and there are many buts...

you need to make a decision, drugs or no drugs. go from there.

if all this is cus you took a lil Adderall for a year or few you are making a mountain out of a mole hill..

ppl come back from insane drug abuse with nothing n are "ok" lol ppl who do that sorta thing are not usually so ok to begin with so, it is sorta relative...

unless you figure out exactly what you want and why, you just gona be on this carrousel of drugs/sups/anxiety/addiction....

it doesn't sound like you have some kind of clearly defined addiction issue... like most you are prob all hung up on the internet mental masturbation of all of this and obsessing so making it worse...

make a plan stick to it, all the thinking and fuckery is taking you much further from where you want to be...

 

[dragonfire101]

you need to think like aas, to put it simply...


taking caber or prami is giving you a synthetic agent that replaces your own dopamine...

just like taking any outside hormone shuts down your endo test...

in theory some sups can help...

I have played with some but you also have to work at doing things to get your body to produce dopamine...

your body generates these chems through life experience... think when you fallin love... fucking dopamine high all the time...

to help restore your own function DO SHIT that makes your body produce dopamine... fucking, fighting, fleeing... translate them how you want but to really regain function you have to remove the drugs. then you have to wait a while... and its gona suck... lol this is why ppl so often just replace one addictive thing with another... which bring us to the bigger issue ultimately of dealing with addiction... or just fucked up brain chemistry.. lol

the dopamine issue is much bigger then drugs...

there are tons of sups which can help address various areas of this and make some parts easier.

I think in the end it does come down to your head n how u choose to dea lwith what goes on inside it. lol

what about sex? lol seriousley alot drug addicts I work with become sex addicts after they stop using for awhile.

 

[Deleted member 121863]

what you need is just time off the adderall and all the other drugs. What makes you think you are low on dopamine? Cause you don`t feel the same as when you were on the adderall? Most of these serotonin/dopamine/brain chemical altering feel good drugs act on the synaptic cleft. They do not create more dopamine/serotonin instead they inhibit the breakdown and reabsorption of it. You then gets used to this "high" and when coming off you feel "low" but really are not. Boom you are a lifetime pharmaceutical customer, just like a smoker to the tobacco industry.

Attached is a simple illustration of this.

 

[emeric delczeg]

I'm having difficulty understanding how dopamine is restored. I'm trying to slowly taper off adderall and having a rough time. I'm on 20mg lexapro and my Dr. recently told me that he may have me add a little bit of Wellbutrin to help with weening off adderall but still keep me on lexapro as Wellbutrin doesn't increase serotonin only dopamine and norepinephrine. Here is where I'm confused. I understand adderall artificially increases dopamine and when stopping your natural levels are depleted. That makes sense. What I don't get is why will caber or prami not fix the problem? A member posted they are selective agonists for a selective subtype of dopamine receptors not general dopamine and can make you feel worse. I don't understand this. And also I researched Wellbutrin and it says it is a norepinephrine and dopamine reuptake inhibitor. It blocks transporters for chemicals norepinephrine and dopamine, increasing amounts of both chemicals in the brain. So does that mean it replaces general dopamine and can fix the problem of depleted dopamine from going off adderall?

Are you consuming any alcohol?

 

[Thebigone]

Are you consuming any alcohol?

No alcohol. I don't smoke or use other drugs.

 

[Thebigone]

My main problem is how I feel when I am not on the Adderall. A normal person gets that great feeling when you drink a pre-workout drink, well for me I need to take 20 mg Adderall and then snort another 20 mg just to get that same awake feeling that makes me feel productive to go to work, the gym, etc. that is the main problem I'm facing. I feel like I constantly need that awake alert amped up feeling to get through my day.

 

[gungalunga]

My main problem is how I feel when I am not on the Adderall. A normal person gets that great feeling when you drink a pre-workout drink, well for me I need to take 20 mg Adderall and then snort another 20 mg just to get that same awake feeling that makes me feel productive to go to work, the gym, etc. that is the main problem I'm facing. I feel like I constantly need that awake alert amped up feeling to get through my day.

My blunt advice.....either man up and drop the adderal for some strong coffee or an energy drink.....or join a 12 step program as it sounds like you have a bit of a problem with the stuff.

 

[Fa Seeshus]

X2 on Mucuna Pruriens

Will help you sleep too.


I am so glad stopped adderall. Afterwards everyone told me it was making me a complete asshole.... lol, much worse than tren attitude