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Downsizing

Crom

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So after the recent health issue discussions and the drug threads how about a discussion on a related health topic: downsizing.

We all know it is healthier for the heart not to weigh too much as we age. Being 49 and weighing 220-225lbs at 5'10 I often think I should downsize but I am wondering what peoples thoughts are on this subject?

I am on TRT (125mg) and maintain an ok bodyfat somewhere around 12-15% I would say. Blood work and resting heart rate is normal. Is the idea of downsizing simply to lose weight just for weighing less even though blood is good? I am struggling to find a reason other than weight? If bloods and HR is good, why downsize?

According to the BMI scale we (BBs) are all obese but of course this scale does not take into account our muscles. If I lost 20-25 lbs I would still be considered very fat according to that scale.

I love to train heavy but don't like the idea of training lighter just to lose weight when my bloods are good. I walk LISS cardio 3 days per week year round too.

Is it necessary to downsize? What indicators would you use to let you know that you need to downsize?
 

tenny

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welcome to getting old my friend...

"downsizing" seems to be the going thing with us older guys....
 

ALLEX

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Is it necessary to downsize?
Very complex question. What's a necessity? Do you feel unhealthy? Are your bloods bad? How's your heart, BP, lipids?

It's common sense that being overweight (be it fat or muscle) puts an unnecessary strain on your body. If we're talking healthy longevity, you better be lean and light.

What indicators would you use to let you know that you need to downsize?
Apnea is the first one for many people. Lethargy, being unable to practice a sport, go for a run, play around with your kids or anything like that. A healthy human body should be able to run a few km, swim a bit, climb on a tree, go for a hike, etc... It's always a trade off...

Most doctors would agree that you shouldn't be heavier than 180 at your height. It's a healthy weight.

To look good, you can keep your dialed in TRT with 1 or 2iu of HGH and add 400-600 primo for 10 weeks once or twice a year. If you're a mature recreational lifter, that's about as high as you should go. But, of course, it's a personal decision and downsizing can be psychologically challenging for many. But if you keep yourself sub 10%BF you'll look a million bucks despite your weight, guaranteed.
 

airman

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If you are 225 at 15% BF, just get down to 10%bf and maitain. You will be around 210lbs, be lighter and look better/bigger. So you don't necessarilly have to lose muscle to lose weight. Unless you plan on getting below 200lbs.
 

brutus69

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if all yr numbers are good, including blood pressure thruout the day and yr on a REAL trt dose keepin yr test levels in range....
why even worry?
yr healthy.
 

DOGGCRAPP

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I think this is a massive monstrous overreaction. Do you know how many men over 5'10" over 50 who weigh more than you in the USA? Multiples of Millions! Do you know how many of those men dont even train? Multiples of millions. The goal should be leaness, and cardio fit....not losing muscle mass for the sake of getting down in bodyweight. These are the things I would more worry about over 50 for bodybuilders

a) full out juicing (your on TRT your not in that category)
b) walking around at plus 12% bodyfat...I say 12% because thats your tradeoff...if you want this suit of armor you must make it predominantly muscle (with that said do you know how many over 50 men in the states are walking around over your bodyweight at way higher than 12% ..again multiples of millions
c) not putting emphasis on cardio and diet. Train heavy...train like you always have or wanted but lower carbohydrates, eat the majority of the time clean, and do cardio.

Please remember this ok...because i have an inside track on alot of these guys dying because ive been around so long. Alot of these guys went DECADES without getting bloodwork. There are many culprits for what they died of with much of it mainly the following

a) having single digit to zero HDL for decades because of steroids not TRT
b) having sky high LDL for decades because of steroids not TRT
c) having blood pressure thru the roof for decades
d) having untreated sleep apnea....virtually ever single bodybuilder who has a significant amount of muscle mass on them has sleep apnea...the majority of old school guys did nothing about it

Every retired retired football player in the NFL weighs way way way more than you.....the obese ones die early but you sure dont see 5'10" running backs dropping left and right and I guarantee virtually every single one of them weighs more than you.....and if they didnt turn obese...they are still around today.

Rich Piana did every single thing wrong. I cannot even believe people listened to that guys advice. Just goes to show you that by and large we are a naive easily influenced nation. A kardashian society it is embrassing. Dont let what a few people like him who did every single thing wrong like
1) juicing hard for 27 years with no bloodwork and no insurance, single digit hdl and sky high LDL
2) Sleep apnea with no CPAP machine
3) stimulants/downers
4) no cardio ever!
5) ice cream and fast food every nite
6) Injecting PMMA into multiple bodyparts

Dont let that influence you....you are not doing what he did. Get even leaner, and stay on your course of being a cardio fit athlete but dont give up muscle mass for the sake of giving up muscle mass (I would say that to anyone on TRT...if they were full on juicing at 50 years old plus...thats a totally different story)
 
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Elvia1023

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Very complex question. What's a necessity? Do you feel unhealthy? Are your bloods bad? How's your heart, BP, lipids?

It's common sense that being overweight (be it fat or muscle) puts an unnecessary strain on your body. If we're talking healthy longevity, you better be lean and light.



Apnea is the first one for many people. Lethargy, being unable to practice a sport, go for a run, play around with your kids or anything like that. A healthy human body should be able to run a few km, swim a bit, climb on a tree, go for a hike, etc... It's always a trade off...

Most doctors would agree that you shouldn't be heavier than 180 at your height. It's a healthy weight.

To look good, you can keep your dialed in TRT with 1 or 2iu of HGH and add 400-600 primo for 10 weeks once or twice a year. If you're a mature recreational lifter, that's about as high as you should go. But, of course, it's a personal decision and downsizing can be psychologically challenging for many. But if you keep yourself sub 10%BF you'll look a million bucks despite your weight, guaranteed.
x2

It's a complex subject with many variables but 100% a smaller you is only better for longetivity. Again many variables but quite frankly if someone is 180 pounds using fairly high doses of AAS I think that could (may not be in some cases) be healthier than a guy 250 on low doses. Carrying big weight is not healthy no matter if it's muscle or fat and no matter how many health supplements you take. Big guys never live to an old age. Look at all the oldest people to ever live most were tiny.

Of course trying to be the healthiest (diet) big person is the only option a bodybuilder has if he doesn't want to downsize. I am also 100% pro health supplementation as it can make a huge difference (it has with me).

It's a complex subject but the most important thing is do you simply feel good. Then of course comes extensive blood work and having everything in range. The simple fact a weight such as 180 is better for your height so if you don't mind downsizing aim for something at least under 200. How big is your waist? I recommend that being trim but losing weight should solve that automatically. You don't want to be too low bf but something like 10% would be great. If you have issues with any health markers than add in some herbal supplementation. I would rotate LISS and HIT cardio through the week.

Drink lot's of water and the obvious thing is your diet. What you put into your body is the main factor in your future health. Eat a variety of fruits and vegetables but lower carbs and lot's of healthy fats but reduced calories. There is no need for huge protein and you should be following a more balanced diet. Everyone has different opinions on things like grains etc but you know your body and are a smart guy so just use what you know will work for you (complex carbs, greens, fruits, vegetables etc).

Good luck and if you do things correctly you at 180-200 pounds and leaner will look much better and probably bigger than you do now.
 

Elvia1023

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I do agree with Dante as you are not exactly 260 at 5ft 10 taking huge dose. But a slightly smaller and leaner you will only help matters. Plus if you are 15% now I am sure you can make slight changes to your diet to achieve what you need. Again a 200 pound you who is leaner will look better than you do so even in regards to bodybuilding it's a good thing. I don't know your diet now but adding in various healthy high anti-oxidant fruits and greens and drinking more water etc is only a good thing too. No harm in wanting to be a healthier you but as Dante posted don't overreact as some of these bodybuilders are abusing everything and weigh much more taking many stimulants etc etc.
 

buck

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12-15% BF is not bad at all in the USA. If one wants to down size then loosing fat and muscle wold be a healthy way to go. Being lean and carrying around a bunch of muscle is still going to cause the heart to work to push blood and nutrients to all that tissue. and some of the latest evidence seems to show putting on 20 lb's BF later in life is good as it gives the body more cushioning in case of falls and can help people that are sick etc. survive better. It is the things we do to our selves long term when we are younger that cause the problems later in life.
 

nothuman

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So after the recent health issue discussions and the drug threads how about a discussion on a related health topic: downsizing.

We all know it is healthier for the heart not to weigh too much as we age. Being 49 and weighing 220-225lbs at 5'10 I often think I should downsize but I am wondering what peoples thoughts are on this subject?

I am on TRT (125mg) and maintain an ok bodyfat somewhere around 12-15% I would say. Blood work and resting heart rate is normal. Is the idea of downsizing simply to lose weight just for weighing less even though blood is good? I am struggling to find a reason other than weight? If bloods and HR is good, why downsize?

According to the BMI scale we (BBs) are all obese but of course this scale does not take into account our muscles. If I lost 20-25 lbs I would still be considered very fat according to that scale.

I love to train heavy but don't like the idea of training lighter just to lose weight when my bloods are good. I walk LISS cardio 3 days per week year round too.

Is it necessary to downsize? What indicators would you use to let you know that you need to downsize?
Nothing else really needs to be added to what Dante said. If you say everything is good from a bp/hr/bloodwork standpoint and don't have apnea, no reason to panic.
 

LATS

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So after the recent health issue discussions and the drug threads how about a discussion on a related health topic: downsizing.

We all know it is healthier for the heart not to weigh too much as we age. Being 49 and weighing 220-225lbs at 5'10 I often think I should downsize but I am wondering what peoples thoughts are on this subject?

I am on TRT (125mg) and maintain an ok bodyfat somewhere around 12-15% I would say. Blood work and resting heart rate is normal. Is the idea of downsizing simply to lose weight just for weighing less even though blood is good? I am struggling to find a reason other than weight? If bloods and HR is good, why downsize?

According to the BMI scale we (BBs) are all obese but of course this scale does not take into account our muscles. If I lost 20-25 lbs I would still be considered very fat according to that scale.

I love to train heavy but don't like the idea of training lighter just to lose weight when my bloods are good. I walk LISS cardio 3 days per week year round too.

Is it necessary to downsize? What indicators would you use to let you know that you need to downsize?
So your 5 '10 and 220 pounds.. That's not overweight in my opinion.. Your bodyfat is fairly low.. If health is good and lipids are fine and you like the way you look then stay there.. I'm 265.. Im on trt.. My bloods are good.. Everything within range now.. Going to get a cardiac testing done just for piece of mind.. I plan on dropping bodyfat as I want to be around 10 to 12 percent .. I figure that puts me roughly 245 or so.. I'm not one of these guys ( nothing wrong with it) that wants to just drop a lot of weight ( muscle) .. I want to keep all I can but lose the fat.. My job is actually fairly active all day so I'm not in bad shape but just don't like what's happening to the mid section..

Everyone holds weight different.. Some guys the extra weight really taxes them.. If so drop that weight.. But you are not overweight.. I still love body building.. Yes I will drop as much bodyfat as I'm comfortable doung.. Where ever that takes me.. But I'm not trying at this point to drop hard earned muscle .. At 49 it becomes a constant battle to keep previous muscle .. I'm not going to rush that process.. ;)..
 

LATS

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I think this is a massive monstrous overreaction. Do you know how many men over 5'10" over 50 who weigh more than you in the USA? Multiples of Millions! Do you know how many of those men dont even train? Multiples of millions. The goal should be leaness, and cardio fit....not losing muscle mass for the sake of getting down in bodyweight. These are the things I would more worry about over 50 for bodybuilders

a) full out juicing (your on TRT your not in that category)
b) walking around at plus 12% bodyfat...I say 12% because thats your tradeoff...if you want this suit of armor you must make it predominantly muscle (with that said do you know how many over 50 men in the states are walking around over your bodyweight at way higher than 12% ..again multiples of millions
c) not putting emphasis on cardio and diet. Train heavy...train like you always have or wanted but lower carbohydrates, eat the majority of the time clean, and do cardio.

Please remember this ok...because i have an inside track on alot of these guys dying because ive been around so long. Alot of these guys went DECADES without getting bloodwork. There are many culprits for what they died of with much of it mainly the following

a) having single digit to zero HDL for decades because of steroids not TRT
b) having sky high LDL for decades because of steroids not TRT
c) having blood pressure thru the roof for decades
d) having untreated sleep apnea....virtually ever single bodybuilder who has a significant amount of muscle mass on them has sleep apnea...the majority of old school guys did nothing about it

Every retired retired football player in the NFL weighs way way way more than you.....the obese ones die early but you sure dont see 5'10" running backs dropping left and right and I guarantee virtually every single one of them weighs more than you.....and if they didnt turn obese...they are still around today.

Rich Piana did every single thing wrong. I cannot even believe people listened to that guys advice. Just goes to show you that by and large we are a naive easily influenced nation. A kardashian society it is embrassing. Dont let what a few people like him who did every single thing wrong like
1) juicing hard for 27 years with no bloodwork and no insurance, single digit hdl and sky high LDL
2) Sleep apnea with no CPAP machine
3) stimulants/downers
4) no cardio ever!
5) ice cream and fast food every nite
6) Injecting PMMA into multiple bodyparts

Dont let that influence you....you are not doing what he did. Get even leaner, and stay on your course of being a cardio fit athlete but dont give up muscle mass for the sake of giving up muscle mass (I would say that to anyone on TRT...if they were full on juicing at 50 years old plus...thats a totally different story)


Dante.. Ya beat me to it... The over reaction I'm seeing ( on every board is amazing) .. Guys , not even big, are now tring to drop 30 to 40 pounds in a panic.. This is not directed to Crom by the way.. First off do everything right.. Don't be stupid with abusive dosages.. Take time off .. Eat clean.. Get blood work.. Do not be sacrificing hard earned muscle because you see what happened to rich and dallas..

As you get older you will have a hard enough time holding onto hard earned muscle let alone intentionally trying to drop it.. Drop bodyfat not muscle .. Now if that's what you want go ahead.. But if this is panic mode over guys who were doing everything wrong then pump the breaks a bit..
 

dale338

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Ridiculous analogy basing things on just numbers. It you are low fat and packing lean muscle mass, numbers are in line, BP and heart are solid, you ARE healthy!! And probably more so than 95% of men your age on the planet, even though the models show you're obese. Being big with lean muscle mass is not the same as being a fat slob.

I met a girl the other day, she was 26 and we had drinks. I'm freaking fifty. I'm lean, and built. I get girls this age and excite them. We start making out and she pulls my shirt off. Her reaction, literally? "Oh my God, a real man, look at your body, look at those muscles" as her hands ran all over me. She was wet, ready, excited and wanted me at twice her age just from how I looked.

You think I'm going to trade that in so that I can meet the expectation of some body mass government index? F-that. I feel good, look good and am healthy.

As long as your labs are holding and you feel right, why change it?
 

JustWannaBeHuge

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Dante.. Ya beat me to it... The over reaction I'm seeing ( on every board is amazing) .. Guys , not even big, are now tring to drop 30 to 40 pounds in a panic.. This is not directed to Crom by the way.. First off do everything right.. Don't be stupid with abusive dosages.. Take time off .. Eat clean.. Get blood work.. Do not be sacrificing hard earned muscle because you see what happened to rich and dallas..

As you get older you will have a hard enough time holding onto hard earned muscle let alone intentionally trying to drop it.. Drop bodyfat not muscle .. Now if that's what you want go ahead.. But if this is panic mode over guys who were doing everything wrong then pump the breaks a bit..
definitely agree. muscle mass is to hard to get, at least for me, don't throw away good mass just to hit a number on a scale. Concentrate on fat loss to get down in weight.

This isn't to you, but it kind of reminds me of those women that will do anything to lose weight just so they can fit into the smallest pair of jeans possible. I actually tossed out my scale and just focus solely on how I look in the mirror and how my clothes fit me. I was to OCD with scale weight.
 

Elvia1023

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definitely agree. muscle mass is to hard to get, at least for me, don't throw away good mass just to hit a number on a scale. Concentrate on fat loss to get down in weight.

This isn't to you, but it kind of reminds me of those women that will do anything to lose weight just so they can fit into the smallest pair of jeans possible. I actually tossed out my scale and just focus solely on how I look in the mirror and how my clothes fit me. I was to OCD with scale weight.
This is what I am doing now. I still want to be big but a more classic physique style. The let's get as huge as possible thing will always be with me but I am trying to avoid that and I know it's not what I truly want. I am still fairly young but I know getting to 270 is not going to do anything for my future health.

I am far from perfect and still run various cycles so it's not like I am doing 20mg test daily all year. But I also know a lot of these guys who say they want to hold onto all their muscle are not exactly 10% and even coming down 20 pounds whilst eating healthy should only help. But I am the last to preach and guys can do what they want. If someone wants to be 280 at 55 years old then let him as he should know the risks.

I am like you and have not weighed myself for awhile as there is no point. Too many guys think things like if I get to 230 I have lost far too much weight and I must be above that. It's like the opposite of the women scenario you mentioned. Too many go on weight and I used to be the same. Although I would never get too sloppy in getting to a certain target weight so I wasn't too bad. At my heaviest (about 255) I was still relatively lean.

What I am doing now is trying to look the best I can whilst not eating a lot of food (healthy amount and choices) and going on the mirror and how I feel (obviously blood work too).
 
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maldorf

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If I were you I would just make sure I don't use more than your 125mg/wk and then add in more cardio. Instead of doing cardio 3x per week I would do it each day if time allows. 40 minutes a day. That should lean you out some and make your heart be in better shape. To me you already sound pretty healthy now.
 

Crom

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Lots of great replies here, thanks guys, all of you!

I knew I wasn't in the same zone as the unfortunate guys that passed but I wanted to hear other peoples thoughts on this because I wanted to see if my own thoughts on the subject were on track or in slight denial.

Yes, I agree with the general consensus; don't lose muscle mass just for the sake of it. Get my body fat down to around 12%, train hard, eat healthy, moderate protein and let the weight be what it is as long as blood work is good.

I agree Elvia, I want to be muscular but kinda athletic. Being agile and muscular as we age is cool in every way. Dale338 - exactly! I hear you too on the Kardashian society DC, I agree, I had absolutely nothing against Rich but never watched his channel.

An interesting fact that Buck mentioned that older people can actually benefit from not being to scrawny. Have a little extra mass to cushion yourself from falling and also have some extra body weight as insurance if you should get ill and not be able to eat much, the extra body mass will make sure your body will not waste away.

Waist wise I'm big, always have been, even in single digit BF. I am thinking of maybe taking a scan to see if there is a lot of visceral fat. I thought visceral fat would up the free fats in your blood work and since they are fine I figured I was good but I am not sure about this one.

I am like the rest of you guys, I still love lifting weights and even though half of my time will be spent on TRT (125mg/week) I will dabble in a little more (test 250mg) from time to time, possibly 400mg no more then 6-8 weeks. Never done high doses, I'm like LATS, too pussy to up the dose over time :D
 
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Alzadosghost

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Last year I came to my senses and realized at my age I am no longer going to be putting on much more muscle if any at all unless I take unnecessary health risks to do so. I don't gain much weight off courses of gear I used to blow up on. But looking back those "big gains" didn't look all that hot. I get a lot more positive feedback about my body now being 220-230 failrly ripped than I ever did at 250-270 with a fat head. My arms aren't 20" anymore but they look more the bodybuilder part than the powerlifter/strongman carcass I had for so many years. Women never even talked to me back then and my hair was still grey free and I looked young. For the first time in my life women are approaching me on s regular basis even younger girls. That's definatly a benefit of being lean and still having a muscular build that distinguishes you from the rest of the average guys with bird leg chicken arms and a pot belly. Plus I'm just a lot healthier inside and out. I used to say I didn't care about getting old because I had no plans on making it that long. But now that I am getting old I realize I'm still alive and I want to live as long as I can. I never tried to fool myself into thinking that using aas for so many years wouldnt be without ramifications. I felt those high doses of gear were starting to affect me and I was getting real side affects from them. And I remembered how when I first started how little gear I needed to respond in s big way. So I came off everything including testosterone for nearly a year to see just exactly where I stood without using gear. To see if I would still have any muscle left and how I felt without it. I lost some muscle. But not so much I didn't look like I ever stepped foot in a gym before. Had bloodwork taken and saw that yes my body was still producing quite a bit of its own testosterone. I. Thought I did irreparable damage to myself but I guess the 3-4 months every year I took off from using shit was enough to let my body revert back to the real me. Then I wanted to see if the year off would allow me to start growing some muscle using very small doses like Emeric suggested. Would have never imagined I could grow muscle on 100 mg of test a week. But I can. It worked just fine and I felt incredible. I truly believe for the older guys less can be more in regards to gear use. No need for blasting multiple grams anymore. I'm more impressed with super low doses now. And this muscle is pretty easy to maintain on a super low dose of testosterone. Health and longevity are important. Far more important to me than 20" arms
 

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Another great thing about having a higher amount of lean body mass is the fact that it really raises your BMR. Having a higher BMR will allow you to not eat really strict and still stay lean, more likely something you can maintain for a lifetime.

The thing that has really hurt me is that I have lost quite a bit of muscle, lean bodymass. My BMR is way down and now I can hardly eat anything compared to what I used to. With more muscle, just sitting around doing nothing you are still burning a lot of calories. Now I really have to watch my calories whereas before it wasn't a big deal and in fact I was pushing calories trying to put on more. You don't want to lose too much muscle. It is really hard to change your eating habits after eating like a weightlifter for so long. I was used to eating two giant chicken breasts 3x a day, now I don't even eat one breast at meal and I'm still fatter than I was. it sucks. I think having higher muscle mass will really help you as you age.
 

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