Dr. Scott Stevenson On Mechanisms of T3 & T4

[danieltx]

New video posted today. Nothing ground-breaking here but given T3 and T4 are always debated it's nice to hear a certified expert discuss it.

 

[gib68sg]

New video posted today. Nothing ground-breaking here but given T3 and T4 are always debated it's nice to hear a certified expert discuss it.

Wait, you mean you’d rather rely on bloodwork and real world science/knowledge than bro lore when it comes to messing with the thyroid?

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

When Dr. Scott talks, I shut the fuck up and listen

 

[aHarness]

I generally take an approach to thyroid hormones that is conservative and have always had good experiences. Seems to align with what he says in this. I run replacement of 25mcg t3, and will go up to max 37.5mcg personally.

 

[EnhancedFatGrappler]

I find it interesting how T3 is used so differently. Some guys are ultra conservative, and only use just as much is needed to get back to normal levels. Other guys are more adventurous, and use 100 mcg or even more - for prolonged periods of time.

The question is just how much is T3 catabolic, how does this catabolism scale with the dose? Is it linear, is it exponential or logarithmic? How does it change with gear? How much gear? Which gear, e.g. Tren being a very strong anticatabolic? How much does kcal deficit play into it? How does protein intake play into it? Carbs? Timing of food? And could the smart use of Insulin also mitigate the catabolism? So many possible tools in our hands.

And so on. I remember a funny anecdote from Milos he told on a Podcast, he got his hands on T3 Cream back in the 90s, an Italian Product, and had his GF at the time rub it on his back, so he didn't see how much she used. He said he basically shrank over the course of a few days, since the gf used the whole tube, which was absurd amounts of T3

 

[Doitagain]

I find it interesting how T3 is used so differently. Some guys are ultra conservative, and only use just as much is needed to get back to normal levels. Other guys are more adventurous, and use 100 mcg or even more - for prolonged periods of time.

The question is just how much is T3 catabolic, how does this catabolism scale with the dose? Is it linear, is it exponential or logarithmic? How does it change with gear? How much gear? Which gear, e.g. Tren being a very strong anticatabolic? How much does kcal deficit play into it? How does protein intake play into it? Carbs? Timing of food? And could the smart use of Insulin also mitigate the catabolism? So many possible tools in our hands.

And so on. I remember a funny anecdote from Milos he told on a Podcast, he got his hands on T3 Cream back in the 90s, an Italian Product, and had his GF at the time rub it on his back, so he didn't see how much she used. He said he basically shrank over the course of a few days, since the gf used the whole tube, which was absurd amounts of T3

This study always makes me wonder WTF every time someone on 3 grams of gear states that he can't use even 12,5mcg of T3 without losing LBM.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/13369267_Testosterone_Administration_Preserves_Protein_Balance_But_Not_Muscle_Strength_during_28_Days_of_Bed_Rest_1

 

[EnhancedFatGrappler]

This study always makes me wonder WTF every time someone on 3 grams of gear states that he can't use even 12,5mcg of T3 without losing LBM.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/13369267_Testosterone_Administration_Preserves_Protein_Balance_But_Not_Muscle_Strength_during_28_Days_of_Bed_Rest_1

What an awesome study!

Even at bed rest, the group with 50 mcg T3 + just 200 mg Test had a positive Nitrogen Balance towards the End of 4 weeks, and it was even increasing every week.

The Group with T3+Test increased lean Body Mass from 56.5±2.2 kg to 58.2±2.5 kg, while decreasing Bodyfat% from 26.2±3.0 to 25.0±2.6

With BED REST! Not even just inactive, complete bed rest .

Thanks for linking that Study!

 

[nothuman]

Great video.

I really believe that if someone truly understood how the thyroid worked, they would never want to run high dose T3. I think thyroid hormones should only be used to optimize thyroid levels in order to improve mitochondrial health.

 

[Hyperemia]

Great video.

I really believe that if someone truly understood how the thyroid worked, they would never want to run high dose T3. I only think thyroid hormones should only be used to optimize thyroid levels in order to improve mitochondrial health.

What do you consider high dose t3?

 

[nothuman]

What do you consider high dose t3?

Whatever amount is high enough to fully suppress TSH and trigger symptoms. It’s going to be different for everyone.

 

[Reno911]

This study always makes me wonder WTF every time someone on 3 grams of gear states that he can't use even 12,5mcg of T3 without losing LBM.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/13369267_Testosterone_Administration_Preserves_Protein_Balance_But_Not_Muscle_Strength_during_28_Days_of_Bed_Rest_1

I dunno. I've never touched 3g but holy shit T3 will melt the muscle/weight right off me. Maybe in a surplus I could do 12.5 but 25 certainly is noticeable.

I can run 50-100 of T4 with no issues- just let my body pull what it needs.

While leaning out, I have found 100-200 of T2 to be effective without any noticeable catabolism.

 

[M@NU]

I dunno. I've never touched 3g but holy shit T3 will melt the muscle/weight right off me. Maybe in a surplus I could do 12.5 but 25 certainly is noticeable.

I can run 50-100 of T4 with no issues- just let my body pull what it needs.

While leaning out, I have found 100-200 of T2 to be effective without any noticeable catabolism.

you get flat. it doesnt melt your muscle away

 

[Doitagain]

you get flat. it doesnt melt your muscle away

I never, ever got flat @25mcg a day.
Now, on a severe caloric deficit you "might" look not as pumped when glycogen is already low.

 

[Reno911]

you get flat. it doesnt melt your muscle away

There's a difference between being flat and dropping 12-15 lbs in a few weeks when you're not "fat". I've been doing this long enough to know the difference.

This is 100% personal. My experience while using it many different times over the years. Not anyone else's experience or what the research says.

 

[M@NU]

I never, ever got flat @25mcg a day.
Now, on a severe caloric deficit you "might" look not as pumped when glycogen is already low.

me neither.
but if anything its flatness and not catabolized muscle fibers at 25µ
thats what i wanted to express with my post.
@Reno911 well, glycogen storage can exceed 1000+ carbs easily. every g of carb pulls 3g of water.
so if you go from full glycogen storages to empty ones its around 10lbs. and there is no fat involved

 

[Reno911]

me neither.
but if anything its flatness and not catabolized muscle fibers at 25µ
thats what i wanted to express with my post.
@Reno911 well, glycogen storage can exceed 1000+ carbs easily. every g of carb pulls 3g of water.
so if you go from full glycogen storages to empty ones its around 10lbs. and there is no fat involved

Ok. You do you and I'll keep doing what has worked for me. I have worked with some very good coaches- Shelby, Matt Porter, Bleu, Andrew Berry, and AJ Sims over the last 14-15 years and none of them has figured out how to use T3 with my metabolism.

So lets just agree to disagree on this one.

 

[MR. BMJ]

In the past I was able to use between 25-75mcg/d and be fine without it making me look 'thin.' Above that and I had some issues. I always used it with Tren in the mix for the most part. I have not used it many many years. I always did much better with T3 than T4.

I have not watched the video yet, but will try to get to it between now and this weekend

 

[bbxtreme]

There's a difference between being flat and dropping 12-15 lbs in a few weeks when you're not "fat". I've been doing this long enough to know the difference.

This is 100% personal. My experience while using it many different times over the years. Not anyone else's experience or what the research says.

I’m in the same boat and have always had an over active thyroid. If I touch T3 I will lose lean tissue fast.

Could I increase caloric intake or gear to try and offset… sure but that would be extremely counterproductive IMO and having high T3 for prolonged periods of time isn’t ideal either.

There are always cases that are excluded from studies. This is why we go off the bloodwork- it’s the most accurate way to determine one’s needs.