Dusty Hanshaw Trains With Dante Trudel

[DOGGCRAPP]

I touched on this in a different post about VOLUME. One consistent I see, regardless on where someone stands on the importance of volume, is guys always target lagging body parts with MORE volume. It can be disguised under more frequency (like this example of adding some leg curls on an upper body pull day). But, at the end of the week, MORE volume has been added. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with it. It seems to make sense when something is lagging you do more to bring it up. I just find it interesting that even guys who don't see as much value in volume (compared to other factors), generally fall back to adding volume when something is not responding.

See again i dont necessarily agree with that. I dont feel volume develops muscle mass. If its a lagging bodypart something they are doing isnt proficient enough exercise wise to get a response. It is a mechanical position problem not a volume problem. 14 sets of something that has been proven not to work for you isnt going to fix what 8 sets of the same exact thing has proven did not work for you. Every single guy in this forum every single one (including myself) has done a boatload of exercises that (we thought at the time it did) but really didnt do jack crap for us. Adding 10 more sets of that non productive exercise is not going to change one thing. On another note every single guy in this forum including myself has done certain exercises that just produced results and they are our goto exercises that we keep as a base or go back to time and time again. That equation right there is every bodybuilders job....What is a one way ticket to running in place on a treadmill training wise? Stick with exercises and mechanical positions that dont work for you. How to get over plateaus on lagging bodyparts? Put them in stretched under load positions (if you can do it safely) and most of all think outside the box and get yourself into mechanical positions and do exercises that "FINALLY" make that bodypart respond. Every single one of you guys have done probably a multitude of exercises for your biceps and triceps havent you? Did every single one of those exercise work like magic? Hell no they didnt. But over time you figured out the main core ones that seemed to bring back a return on investment. Do that for every single bodypart that is lagging and that is the key to all of this (in my opinion).....and that really doesnt have alot to do with volume...it has to do with being in a productive mechanical position (that you probably havent put yourself in before) and then getting really progressive and strong on it.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

@DOGGCRAPP, Dante...client is doing 3-way split 4x a week. Lagging hamstrings. You have 12 weeks to bring them up...what’s your plan?

Added leg curls on back/bi day?

Analyzing what has not been working, throwing all that in the trash....and coming up with about 4-6 hamstring exercises that "hopefully" get them to respond in 12 weeks. Ham presses, split squats, Ham tractors, etc etc etc....throw the kitchen sink at them. Have a full ham day on leg day and then pick another day that is a spaced number of days during the week away from it....and have them go all out with one exercise or method on that day (whether its a day off or not)....if they train 2 exercises for hams on leg day on tuesday...then on friday or saturday (whether its a day off or not) have them do one thing for hams that day.....weighted sled drags? think outside the box on it

 

[11111]

Dante, I really appreciate your contributions in this thread. Have you found anything free weights/smith machine-wise for upper chest?

I know you talked about the hammer strength incline (under stretch) last year on your instagram, but since i'm stuck training at home, I "only" have access to free weight incline db and bb, cables, and a smith machine, and really want to bomb away and improve that upper chest "shelf"

Any insight would be hugely appreciated

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Dante, I really appreciate your contributions in this thread. Have you found anything free weights/smith machine-wise for upper chest?

I know you talked about the hammer strength incline (under stretch) last year on your instagram, but since i'm stuck training at home, I "only" have access to free weight incline db and bb, cables, and a smith machine, and really want to bomb away and improve that upper chest "shelf"

Any insight would be hugely appreciated

Raise your bench to a 45 degree angle (not 30 degrees that is customary)..so it is a higher than normal incline.....go thumbless so it forces your elbows downward and not outward...and doing so will also put you in the position i want you in below. Suck in alot of air on the eccentric phase and at the same time lift your sternum high (stay really tight)....(its too bad you cannot do this with a cambered U-bar but we have to do with what we have)....do all this with a slightly wider than shoulder grip...at the very bottom you should have sternum high like i said and lungs full of air...(you should almost be thinking in your head that your upper chest is parallel with the floor because your sternum is so high and you have so much air in your lungs (its not really but you get it...) a quarter inch above your upper pecs hold the bar there for a count of 5 (probably 3.5-4 true seconds because your going to be breathing so hard) STRETCH UNDER LOAD IT WORKS....then press up through. Do this exercise second or third in your chest routine and warmup progressively with it with maybe 6's and 8's and then your first time out hit 20 reps on your all out work set...every week (to the best of your ability) keep adding weight to each side and do your best to keep your reps up....(its not going to happen but you will have a kickass built in progression with this for an extended time while the weight goes up slightly and the reps come down slightly)....the reps are going to come down 17,16,15,13,12, over time while the weight is going to climb and climb upwards.....wrap your elbows with your knee wraps on your work set so you can keep tricep fatigue out of it on your main set. You are going to end up with some serious heavy weight months down the road at a time when you feel you are stuck at 8-12 reps failure. (and then you can make the decision of resetting it and having another go with higher reps downward, heavy weight upward or you can switch to a new exercise). Stretch under load...it will work for you....that is where the magic is....those 5 seconds in the stretched position on every rep are going to make bigtime changes to the thickness you have in that area....that is the key aspect to this as you go up in weight and down in reps over an extended period of time

 

[xpoc]

Stretch under load. I know this has been a big part of DC since the beginning, but I can see he is now using it on working sets (not just loaded stretching after).... lightbulb going on in my head here. I have been lifting 36 years. Probably well past my "genetic limits." I am always looking for ways to make the most MINOR of progress. I see a new road to explore now. Good shxt.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Stretch under load. I know this has been a big part of DC since the beginning, but I can see he is now using it on working sets (not just loaded stretching after).... lightbulb going on in my head here. I have been lifting 36 years. Probably well past my "genetic limits." I am always looking for ways to make the most MINOR of progress. I see a new road to explore now. Good shxt.

Just be careful and feel your way into it. You never compromise joint integrity or safety with it. It can do alot of things for chest/triceps/quads/back width/...harder to do (but still doable if you are careful and think it out) on biceps hamstrings

 

[Sixfoottwo]

Reading these posts makes it suck even more I can't hire you as a coach Dante. Haha.

 

[Fit2Serve]

See again i dont necessarily agree with that. I dont feel volume develops muscle mass. If its a lagging bodypart something they are doing isnt proficient enough exercise wise to get a response. It is a mechanical position problem not a volume problem. 14 sets of something that has been proven not to work for you isnt going to fix what 8 sets of the same exact thing has proven did not work for you. Every single guy in this forum every single one (including myself) has done a boatload of exercises that (we thought at the time it did) but really didnt do jack crap for us. Adding 10 more sets of that non productive exercise is not going to change one thing. On another note every single guy in this forum including myself has done certain exercises that just produced results and they are our goto exercises that we keep as a base or go back to time and time again. That equation right there is every bodybuilders job....What is a one way ticket to running in place on a treadmill training wise? Stick with exercises and mechanical positions that dont work for you. How to get over plateaus on lagging bodyparts? Put them in stretched under load positions (if you can do it safely) and most of all think outside the box and get yourself into mechanical positions and do exercises that "FINALLY" make that bodypart respond. Every single one of you guys have done probably a multitude of exercises for your biceps and triceps havent you? Did every single one of those exercise work like magic? Hell no they didnt. But over time you figured out the main core ones that seemed to bring back a return on investment. Do that for every single bodypart that is lagging and that is the key to all of this (in my opinion).....and that really doesnt have alot to do with volume...it has to do with being in a productive mechanical position (that you probably havent put yourself in before) and then getting really progressive and strong on it.

i dont think the right exercise does either.
guess milos sarcev never found the exercise that brought up his biceps?
dennis wolf i guess never found the exercise to bring up his calves?
brandon curry never found the exercises to bring up his legs?
i think its funny when smart people are still delusional enough to think laggin parts can be brought up.
i got ocean front property in arizona i'd love to sell lol
like my best friend said when his gym got a vertical leg press: "this is it! i am gonna be able to bring up my legs this year!"
think it happened?
prob has nothing to do with muscle fiber/insertion/skeleton etc etc etc its just picking the right exercise.
-F

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

So i guess by your reasoning exercises and mechanical positions doesnt matter one bit.

You heard it here first everyone....from Fit2serve....just do leg extensions...your quads will be massive...nothing else matters.

 

[Sixfoottwo]

i dont think the right exercise does either.
guess milos sarcev never found the exercise that brought up his biceps?
dennis wolf i guess never found the exercise to bring up his calves?
brandon curry never found the exercises to bring up his legs?
i think its funny when smart people are still delusional enough to think laggin parts can be brought up.
i got ocean front property in arizona i'd love to sell lol
like my best friend said when his gym got a vertical leg press: "this is it! i am gonna be able to bring up my legs this year!"
think it happened?
prob has nothing to do with muscle fiber/insertion/skeleton etc etc etc its just picking the right exercise.
-F

I think there are plenty of examples around to show that lagging body parts can be brought up right? Not saying that anyone can be a top pro BB'er by switching the angle on a smith squat or something but still.

 

[Mountolympus]

Dante i would ask one thing about calves, i live in italy and the gyms are close for the covid. I train with classic DC,i don't have muche weight to use to calf , i think to do in this way. I do seated calf with a barbell on my knees and my feet on the step,but instead of do your method (5"negative, 15" pause) i set the timer for 5-10 minutes and i go until the end of the time.What do u think of this way ? thanks a lot Dante
*i use a weight that allows me to do about 1 minute no stop, after i do pause and do reps , pause ecc

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I have seen Flex Lewis bring up his back and torso when it used to be horribly behind.... back in the old days.
Ive seen Phil Heath transform his back to a standout bodypart and fix his narrowness by putting on massive size on his shoulders
Ive seen Hunter Labrada bring up his back tremendously just in the last 2 years.
Cedric won his pro card back in the day and came to me for help because he felt his arms were too small and a bunch of weird exercises later (like reverse grip smith presses and etc later)....(problem solved)
Yes you can bring up weak bodyparts whether you have pro genetics or so so genetics. You cannot change shape but you can put size on a weak bodypart, it will probably never be a standout bodypart but you can put size on any bodypart if you get outside the box

 

[homonunculus]

So i guess by your reasoning exercises and mechanical positions doesnt matter one bit.

You heard it here first everyone....from Fit2serve....just do leg extensions...your quads will be massive...nothing else matters.

i dont think the right exercise does either.
guess milos sarcev never found the exercise that brought up his biceps?
dennis wolf i guess never found the exercise to bring up his calves?
brandon curry never found the exercises to bring up his legs?
i think its funny when smart people are still delusional enough to think laggin parts can be brought up.
i got ocean front property in arizona i'd love to sell lol
like my best friend said when his gym got a vertical leg press: "this is it! i am gonna be able to bring up my legs this year!"
think it happened?
prob has nothing to do with muscle fiber/insertion/skeleton etc etc etc its just picking the right exercise.
-F

F2S,

You can pick up either of Per Tesch's books "Muscle Meets Magnet" or "Target Bodybuilding" to see MRI evidence, or read this fine article by Jose Antonio for more evidence that muscle activation patterns differ depending upon the exercise performed.

1. Antonio J. Nonuniform Response of Skeletal Muscle to Heavy Resistance Training: Can Bodybuilders Induce Regional Muscle Hypertrophy? The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research 14: 102-113, 2000. http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/F..._Response_of_Skeletal_Muscle_to_Heavy.18.aspx



Biofeedback and instructions to subjects can change the relative activation of muscles (e.g., Tri's vs. pecs) .

Loading curves vary for exercises and don't necessarily match strength curves, which vary by individual. Ever have an exercise that's just got an awful sticking point vs. one that lets' you just grind out reps?...

Eccentric training has been shown to have a different effects on muscle fascicle angle and length (vs. isometric training) (consider what that means as far as muscle shape). See this in addition to Joey's article above:
1. Guilhem G, Cornu C, and Guével A. Neuromuscular and muscle-tendon system adaptations to isotonic and isokinetic eccentric exercise. Annals of Physical and Rehabilitation Medicine 53: 319-341, 2010. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877065710000898

Notice that some BB'ers with great XXX get a pump in those muscles really easily. (This could also be b/c they don't train them as often, so they are pumped more easily d/t being more easily fatigued....)

Not all exercises are created equal, nor are all bodybuilders. Getting weird with it, as D says, finding the right exercises, angle, mechanical (dis)advantage can mean disallowing a more optimal neuromuscular biomechanical movement pattern that employs muscles that are not intended to be targeted (consider a guy with a great OH press who can't seem to keep from pushing with his anterior deltoids during chest movements) to be disadvantaged, leaving the intense target muscle as a more isolated target prime mover.

And now think about some gifted pro bodybuilders who have been getting damn good success for years and never had to think outside the book to make great gains... Have they developed the skills to do something different in many cases, especially when just training a bit more, or using a bit more gear, etc. has worked quite well in the past?...

Cedric, knowing probably at some level that he has been able to get by pretty easily and be amazing, was smart enough to know Dante's a guy who's had to (wanted to) travel the path of figuring shit out like this, so he contacted him.

-S

 

[Elvia1023]

i dont think the right exercise does either.
guess milos sarcev never found the exercise that brought up his biceps?
dennis wolf i guess never found the exercise to bring up his calves?
brandon curry never found the exercises to bring up his legs?
i think its funny when smart people are still delusional enough to think laggin parts can be brought up.
i got ocean front property in arizona i'd love to sell lol
like my best friend said when his gym got a vertical leg press: "this is it! i am gonna be able to bring up my legs this year!"
think it happened?
prob has nothing to do with muscle fiber/insertion/skeleton etc etc etc its just picking the right exercise.
-F

Obviously there are instances were a body part is not going to make any significant progress because it is so limited. Some people (or body parts) simply don't have it and no matter what they do training wise that body part will likely remain weaker. However, for most there is always room for improvement. Fact is 99% of the time more could always be done. By more that could be finding the right form, movement, angle, rep range, rep speed, volume, frequency, intensity etc. Moreover it's often about finding the right combination of all those elements at times. 99% of people could improve so many variables. It's especially common for guys who have better genetics and have gotten far with doing the most basic stuff. Although even the guys without the genetics often do the same stuff expecting things to suddenly change and it obviously won't. Now sure some people just have a really bad body part and you listed 2 good examples. Although for most they could still improve. I have seen Wolf training calves in videos and he is doing the most basic shit. Now I don't know what he has done it private so he may have tried everything but still for many people it's usually a form issue and I have seen it so many times.

I can even use myself as a example when it comes to calves. I will never have great calves. No one on this forum has trained, experimented and put as much effort into their calves as me. I have tried everything from training them daily for a year to once weekly and everything in between. From trying 101 different exercises to learning about calf anatomy to watching 100's of training vids on calf training. I even spend a month once walking on my tiptoes as much as possible... literally walking around town looking like I was disabled... everything Now they will never be anything great but I have been hitting them for 2 decades and 1 decade brutally hard and they have slowly improved. I am actually very pleased with the improvements I have made over the last year. I had to get really weird with it and some of my best progress came from things you wouldn't expect. But I have also done crazy heavy weight straight and drop sets and everything in between.

Even my chest was the same but that was more due to form. Form for me is the biggest factor in people not improving weak body parts. Yes finding new movements is great but most struggle to improve due to their form in basic movements. One of those movements is the classic bench press. I could bench press 4pps for years and my chest was shit and only after I perfected my form (for various movements) and then progressed within that form did it start to respond. So many let other muscles take over when performing certain movements. An example would be delts and tri-ceps for chest movements. I also believe once someone develops a muscle slightly that mind-muscle connection is often much easier and as a result gains start coming quicker. I never had a connection with my chest but once I improved my form and developed it slightly I had some muscle there and I could feel it more so when training I could connect and it made a huge difference.

So as with any subject there are many exceptions and sure some guys/bodyparts just don't have any room for improvement and they could kill a muscle for years for little-no difference but for 99% there is always room for improvement imo.

 

[USMuscle9403]

@DOGGCRAPP Thanks so much for your participation in this thread. For me, this is what more advanced bodybuilding is all about; refreshing to hear more on training than such a focus on drugs.

What have you got for inner sweep? Mine are coming up thanks to deliberation, ass-to-edge leg extensions likely the biggest contributing factor, what you got up your sleeve? Squat variations are mostly out, for me, the exception being hack squats.

If a guy wants direct trap work, is he treating it as a weak point and doing an extra set on non-related muscle group days (throwing something in at the end of a leg day, for instance), or would you suggest more work on a back thickness day? Mine aren't lagging at all, in fact they're a strong point, just want em bigger Anything outside the box you've got on that?

Thanks again EVERYONE for making this an awesome thread

 

[KTT]

I have seen Flex Lewis bring up his back and torso when it used to be horribly behind.... back in the old days.
Ive seen Phil Heath transform his back to a standout bodypart and fix his narrowness by putting on massive size on his shoulders
Ive seen Hunter Labrada bring up his back tremendously just in the last 2 years.
Cedric won his pro card back in the day and came to me for help because he felt his arms were too small and a bunch of weird exercises later (like reverse grip smith presses and etc later)....(problem solved)
Yes you can bring up weak bodyparts whether you have pro genetics or so so genetics. You cannot change shape but you can put size on a weak bodypart, it will probably never be a standout bodypart but you can put size on any bodypart if you get outside the box

Cedrics arms are from the X3 bar jsdJVNBJKVBKJSDBN HAHAHAHA

 

[Mountolympus]

 

[Fit2Serve]

F2S,

You can pick up either of Per Tesch's books "Muscle Meets Magnet" or "Target Bodybuilding" to see MRI evidence, or read this fine article by Jose Antonio for more evidence that muscle activation patterns differ depending upon the exercise performed.

1. Antonio J. Nonuniform Response of Skeletal Muscle to Heavy Resistance Training: Can Bodybuilders Induce Regional Muscle Hypertrophy? The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research 14: 102-113, 2000. http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/F..._Response_of_Skeletal_Muscle_to_Heavy.18.aspx



Biofeedback and instructions to subjects can change the relative activation of muscles (e.g., Tri's vs. pecs) .

Loading curves vary for exercises and don't necessarily match strength curves, which vary by individual. Ever have an exercise that's just got an awful sticking point vs. one that lets' you just grind out reps?...

Eccentric training has been shown to have a different effects on muscle fascicle angle and length (vs. isometric training) (consider what that means as far as muscle shape). See this in addition to Joey's article above:
1. Guilhem G, Cornu C, and Guével A. Neuromuscular and muscle-tendon system adaptations to isotonic and isokinetic eccentric exercise. Annals of Physical and Rehabilitation Medicine 53: 319-341, 2010. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877065710000898

Notice that some BB'ers with great XXX get a pump in those muscles really easily. (This could also be b/c they don't train them as often, so they are pumped more easily d/t being more easily fatigued....)

Not all exercises are created equal, nor are all bodybuilders. Getting weird with it, as D says, finding the right exercises, angle, mechanical (dis)advantage can mean disallowing a more optimal neuromuscular biomechanical movement pattern that employs muscles that are not intended to be targeted (consider a guy with a great OH press who can't seem to keep from pushing with his anterior deltoids during chest movements) to be disadvantaged, leaving the intense target muscle as a more isolated target prime mover.

And now think about some gifted pro bodybuilders who have been getting damn good success for years and never had to think outside the book to make great gains... Have they developed the skills to do something different in many cases, especially when just training a bit more, or using a bit more gear, etc. has worked quite well in the past?...

Cedric, knowing probably at some level that he has been able to get by pretty easily and be amazing, was smart enough to know Dante's a guy who's had to (wanted to) travel the path of figuring shit out like this, so he contacted him.

-S

some things on paper dont work in practice tho.
why didnt dennis woolf bring up his calves?
why milos couldnt bring up his biceps?
its not exercise choice. thats just ridiculous.
i am SURE they tried every exercise.
i know milos did. i talked w him 5 days a week for nearly a year straight. and every day for 45 min for 10 weeks while he did his daily cardio.
he said literally word for word "there are 2 ways to bring up a lagging body part and its syntherol or surgery, i used syntherol and almost killed myself...."
-F

 

[homonunculus]

some things on paper dont work in practice tho.

Yes, what things in particular are you referring to?... Did you read any of the things "on paper" I noted above?..

why didnt dennis woolf bring up his calves?

I don't know but I could speculate that he DID bring up his calves to some degree at some point and I also have the suspicion that he suffered nerve damage (as Milos might have) from site / spot injecting them (although I only say that because they seemed to regress and I think one in particular was very down in size over time).

why milos couldnt bring up his biceps?
its not exercise choice. thats just ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

For each person and each muscle there will be a rate of growth over time and along that time course, various things will contribute to growth:

Loading/ training strategy in general. (Heavy vs. light, frequency , volume).

How much weight they gain over time - generally affecting all muscles, but varying in degree.

Genetic proclivity in general for muscle growth.

Proclivity for a given muscle to grow in response to the above, which VARIES by muscle group.

Responsiveness of each muscle to the exercises it's exposed to.

Take a genetically gifted bodybuilder who's perhaps never had to push the limits of food, body weight, effort or ingenuity in terms of training, gear, etc. who happens to have a stubborn muscle group. Past strategies have meant that almost all of the basic exercises work for producing superior growth in most muscles for that individual.

It's possible then that that person will need to find a new and novel way to produce a growth stimulus (see my previous post) to urge that muscle to grow.

And if in typing "its not exercise choice. thats just ridiculous." you're implying that I'm saying that exercise selection is always and the only reason why a muscle might not grow during a particular time period of a person's career, that's a ridiculous thing for you to assume and would indeed be ridiculous for me to content.

i am SURE they tried every exercise.
i know milos did. i talked w him 5 days a week for nearly a year straight. and every day for 45 min for 10 weeks while he did his daily cardio.
he said literally word for word "there are 2 ways to bring up a lagging body part and its syntherol or surgery, i used syntherol and almost killed myself...."
-F

You're working with two examples here to support your point. Are you reading any of the other posts in this thread or considering that there just might be some people who found that exercise selection was helpful in bringing up a lagging muscle group?...

-S

 

[USMuscle9403]

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