EAA & BCAA

[Cerberus777]

Can you try to find that study? I would be really interested in it...

If no one else can find it I have it on my old computer, I'll be getting someone to retrieve files off of it. May be a few weeks. I believe someone assisted can eat a bit more frequently but shouldn't push it. The dips and valleys aid in absorption. I would just increase portion size. I find I can easily absorbed a third more protein when blasting. Feel bloated cruising.

 

[Knight9]

For over 3 yrs I lived by putting about 6 scoops of Chain'd Out (a BCAA with malates) in a gallon jug and sipping on it throughout the day...and mostly intra workout. I would often fill it up 1/3 to 1/2 a gallon more once I had gotten through half the day and drank half or more of it...especially since I trained in the evenings. I would throw 2-3 more scoops in most days. Overall, it tasted and worked very very well. This is during the 3 yrs I never used whey or casein. I often used Humapro as well as my protein source and of course had 3-5 whole food meals.

 

[flexdurden]

I'm glad the issue of natural versus assisted was brought up because I didn't even consider it.

Also, upon further reading it seems a dose of 15g of EAA is required to stimulate skeletal muscle protein synthesis. Since you guys are drinking them over a longer period when you sip then, you may not really be getting the protein synthetic response but you might also not be shunting the ability to have am increase in protein synthesis at the next feeding. What I think these are doing is delivering a pure anti catabolic effect to preserve muscle tissue, which is exceptionally beneficial when in a calorie restricted state.

 

[Cerberus777]

I'm glad the issue of natural versus assisted was brought up because I didn't even consider it.

Also, upon further reading it seems a dose of 15g of EAA is required to stimulate skeletal muscle protein synthesis. Since you guys are drinking them over a longer period when you sip then, you may not really be getting the protein synthetic response but you might also not be shunting the ability to have am increase in protein synthesis at the next feeding. What I think these are doing is delivering a pure anti catabolic effect to preserve muscle tissue, which is exceptionally beneficial when in a calorie restricted state.

Studies I have seen on natural vs assisted (there aren't many) is natural protein turnover is 5hrs and AAS is 4(same as infants). And this is where the every 3 hour meal idea came from. Since it takes an hour to digest, giving a steady stream of aminos. But recent studies indicate a drop in aminos need to happen or you won't absorb all you take in per meal. Since there hasn't been that many studies done. You could assume an assisted person in contest prep doing heavy cardio could shorten the window.

I am pulling from memory, but is the 15gr with out a meal? Or the same as prior. I remember reading 15gr for same protein synthesis as a meal, and 5-10 shortly before a meal for greater absorption...Or you may have a newer study.

 

[flexdurden]

Studies I have seen on natural vs assisted (there aren't many) is natural protein turnover is 5hrs and AAS is 4(same as infants). And this is where the every 3 hour meal idea came from. Since it takes an hour to digest, giving a steady stream of aminos. But recent studies indicate a drop in aminos need to happen or you won't absorb all you take in per meal. Since there hasn't been that many studies done. You could assume an assisted person in contest prep doing heavy cardio could shorten the window.

I am pulling from memory, but is the 15gr with out a meal? Or the same as prior. I remember reading 15gr for same protein synthesis as a meal, and 5-10 shortly before a meal for greater absorption...Or you may have a newer study.

I am referencing this study: Amino acid ingestion improves muscle protein synthesis in the young and elderly | Endocrinology and Metabolism

Which, was done without a meal... so, yes, the 10grams is likely more appropriate for out discussion, but still, if sipping amino acids, you are not getting a bolus dose, therefore I feel the benefits of sipping amino acids is from the anti-catabolic effect versus anabolic (protein synthetic) effect.

 

[Cerberus777]

I am referencing this study: Amino acid ingestion improves muscle protein synthesis in the young and elderly | Endocrinology and Metabolism

Which, was done without a meal... so, yes, the 10grams is likely more appropriate for out discussion, but still, if sipping amino acids, you are not getting a bolus dose, therefore I feel the benefits of sipping amino acids is from the anti-catabolic effect versus anabolic (protein synthetic) effect.

Thanks, yeah this is does point out that you won't get the same benefits as a larger amount all at ounce. And possibly less results than if you didn't used the aminos and ate a simi normal meal frequency.

For those interested, you can replace some meals with 15gr EAA based on this study.

 

[anab0lic]

After much experimentation with both, i honestly feel like they are a complete and utter waste of money that i wish i could get back.... just eat some steak or eggs....

 

[richiec]

After much experimentation with both, i honestly feel like they are a complete and utter waste of money that i wish i could get back.... just eat some steak or eggs....

Now the question comes as to what exactly you expected to happen? Did you expect to take EAA and bcaa and get the same benefits as a cycle? Did you have real expectations?

 

[richiec]

Ok, MF and Cerebus, based on the replies that you guys have posted and the studies, do you personally think that taking 10g of EAA between meals say 2x a day would be beneficial?

Something like this:


6:50 - 7:20/25 cardio (5g bcaa)
8:am - breakfast (2 whole eggs 3 egg whites), coffee
10am - 10g EAA
12:00 - lunch (chicken breast, almonds, fruit)
2pm - 10g EAA
4:00 - mid day meal (same as above except switch almonds for coconut oil)
Workout - Gatorade with 15-20g bcaa
6/6:30 - pwo shake (shake + fruit)
7:30 - dinner (depends, but protein and carbs)

I'm going to be in a caloric deficit so trying to hold what I can. Does the above look to be on the right path?

 

[Cerberus777]

Ok, MF and Cerebus, based on the replies that you guys have posted and the studies, do you personally think that taking 10g of EAA between meals say 2x a day would be beneficial?

Something like this:


6:50 - 7:20/25 cardio (5g bcaa)
8:am - breakfast (2 whole eggs 3 egg whites), coffee
10am - 10g EAA
12:00 - lunch (chicken breast, almonds, fruit)
2pm - 10g EAA
4:00 - mid day meal (same as above except switch almonds for coconut oil)
Workout - Gatorade with 15-20g bcaa
6/6:30 - pwo shake (shake + fruit)
7:30 - dinner (depends, but protein and carbs)

I'm going to be in a caloric deficit so trying to hold what I can. Does the above look to be on the right path?

With 3hours between meals I would take them at 11:30 and 3:30. This should cause them and the next meal to go towards rebuilding and holding on to muscle tissue.

 

[richiec]

With 3hours between meals I would take them at 11:30 and 3:30. This should cause them and the next meal to go towards rebuilding and holding on to muscle tissue.

Thank you Cerberus, I greatly appreciate your input! Don't know if it was a typo on your part, but the meals are spaced out about 4 hours apart, but figure with the actual eating it'd be 3:40-45 apart. Unless of course you are factoring in the digestion time

 

[Cerberus777]

Thank you Cerberus, I greatly appreciate your input! Don't know if it was a typo on your part, but the meals are spaced out about 4 hours apart, but figure with the actual eating it'd be 3:40-45 apart. Unless of course you are factoring in the digestion time

Yes I was factoring digestion time and forgot to mention...EAA would be more beneficial at the mid points between meals if they were 6hrs apart. With your schedule (mine is very similar) 20-30 min before meals would spike amino blood levels and trigger you to use the next meal for what you intended. Not as drastic as glu4 after a work out. But when calorie restricted it helps.

 

[tay]

Once I have some free time. I can post more about BCAA, EAA and MPS signaling...

 

[flexdurden]

Yes I was factoring digestion time and forgot to mention...EAA would be more beneficial at the mid points between meals if they were 6hrs apart. With your schedule (mine is very similar) 20-30 min before meals would spike amino blood levels and trigger you to use the next meal for what you intended. Not as drastic as glu4 after a work out. But when calorie restricted it helps.

I am with Cerberus in what he said... if you use them as Cerb stated you'll trigger an anabolic response and actually an insulogenic response before eating, which will help drive nutrients.

EAAs/BCAAs have some interesting properties and when used the right ways can be a an awesome tool to give you a little edge.

 

[richiec]

Once I have some free time. I can post more about BCAA, EAA and MPS signaling...

Guess you never got that free time huh?

Just got my EAA and bcaa from TrueNutrition, omg is the EAA bitter

I mix my bcaa in Gatorade for my intra drink, but when I take them in the morning, it's scoop in mouth, chug water, swish and swallow. The bcaa aren't exactly great tasting, but wow are the EAA's ever bitter!

 

[Cerberus777]

Guess you never got that free time huh?

Just got my EAA and bcaa from TrueNutrition, omg is the EAA bitter

I mix my bcaa in Gatorade for my intra drink, but when I take them in the morning, it's scoop in mouth, chug water, swish and swallow. The bcaa aren't exactly great tasting, but wow are the EAA's ever bitter!

Tart cancels bitter on the taste buds. Lemon or lemon flavor works well. Gatorade is a bit to light to do alone. Crystal lite lemonade, or squeeze lemon in the Gatorade its quit manageable.

 

[ModestMuscle1]

I have tried this with positive results

 

[Cinder]

I'm stupid...
I've been measuring out "10 grams" of EAA in a scooper left over from a lecine powder. I used a digital scale to weigh what was In this scoop, and it was only like 3.7 or something. Good thing I weighed it...

 

[richiec]

I'm stupid...
I've been measuring out "10 grams" of EAA in a scooper left over from a lecine powder. I used a digital scale to weigh what was In this scoop, and it was only like 3.7 or something. Good thing I weighed it...

I had to do the same thing. Except my scoops are right around 7g.
I guess I got the big scoop from TN, works out great for me lol

 

[heavyhitter]

I always weight everything. Gram scales are under 10 bucks on amazon and I like to know what im getting