Eat & Exercise Less vs. Eat & Exercise More

[Cerberus777]

Lol good point, that's basically how it is for me with the eventual end being eat less and exercise more.

I'm surprised by the poll results, looks like twice as many people go with "eat less exercise less". I expected a lot of guys here to be all about maximizing both.

On another forum there was a guy telling me how my diet was way too restrictive and I was not going to make progress because I was starving myself and doing too much activity. But this was on ~2000 calories with a refeed and daily cardio. I listened to him as I got off cycle and bumped it up to 2400 but as I said it was off cycle so I lost a ton of bloat and he thought it was working but once the water was off it completely stalled and in my opinion it's an incorrect view. Yes at times you need to back off but it's unrealistic to think anyone can keep getting as lean as they want on 2400+ with little cardio, especially endos like us. I can think of 5+ guys I know right now, all more muscular than me (but around the same weight) who are dieting with around 2000 calories right now and only very moderate refeeds of 3000-3500 so I don't think I'm out of the norm or doing anything too extreme with dropping below 2400 especially with the refeeds thrown in.

Giving oneself enough time is a big part of it but I think eventually a lot of dieters get to the point of needing to eat less and exercise a lot.

Oh and one method I will not go back to is the "exercise less but more T3" approach lol I still do not completely understand scientifically why but it seems past the 50mcg point (roughly) the deficit created by more T3 just seems to be more catabolic than an equal amount created by diet or exercise. Can't seem to find a legitimate explanation for this though.

For an endo, 2000 calories with 3000 refeed is quite sensible. Being endo going past 50mcg will raise cortisol so when/ if you do. Only go up 25mcg and back off cardio and up calories (protein)slightly for a week. Then you go back to working on loosing....at least this works for me.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Training should stay the same until you are 7-6% bf . Indivuals who are naturally lean don't have a problem at all but most people 7-6% training takes a hit because there body's are used to holding more fat( so there out of homeostatis). That is also when diet plays a huge role specifically sodium / potassium and where the individuals hold water.

Diet and cardio are what should be focused on for fat loss. Think about it why would you train more ? To burn more calories all your doing is wearing your joints and ligaments out more . Unless your blasting gh or are genetic elite ( meaning strong joints tendons) < ex. Look at some one like Kai Greene do you see his ROM and flexibility with that amount of muscle it's absurd that is a quality which shows ability to train high frequency high volume.(it doesn't mean he will be able to recover from it that's not something predictable it's only trial and error.)

Lose fat: 1. Add cardio 2. Drop cals 3. You get the point

Of course add gh and insulin and it's a different story

I agree for the most part but there are some groups who are all about just training a ton more and eating a lot as well. I think John Meadows in his recent prep was lifting weights 6-7 days per week with no cardio, and I know a few people who are using a similar approach.

But as you mentioned I don't think everyone (or even most) will be able to recover necessarily. Yes it'll burn more calories but in general I'd say additional cardio can burn significantly more cardio without as much of an impact on recovery, if it's incorporated appropriately.

At times I'd love to just be able to train and ton and eat more but eventually calories have to be brought down regardless and that's when the recovery issues come into play.

For an endo, 2000 calories with 3000 refeed is quite sensible. Being endo going past 50mcg will raise cortisol so when/ if you do. Only go up 25mcg and back off cardio and up calories (protein)slightly for a week. Then you go back to working on loosing....at least this works for me.

That's kind of the method I've stumbled upon actually. If things stall I may up T3 to 75mcg/day for a little while and cut cardio back but after awhile (1 week or so) the extra T3 really does seem to cut into strength/size....back to 50mcg for a few days and strength seems to do better. In general I want to stick to 50mcg unless really necessary for a big stall or something and hopefully the temporary bump clears it up when that happens.

of course if the refeeds get particularly big then the rest of the week ends up needing to compensate with more recovery-intensive methods. I know some coaches give a 1 hour free eating window, others say "1 meal of whatever", etc...but depending on one's appetite that can still easily end up being a 5000 calorie day so pros and cons of each method really.

 

[tr]

Figured you'd chime in, I had you in mind when I thought about the 'eat more exercise more' crowd lol I recall you always doing tons of volume, sometimes double sessions I think, and eating a lot. Do you tend to do your sessions all in one go or break it up like training in the morning and cardio at night? What's a typical week look like for you training and nutrition wise while actively striving for fat loss?

I do like the eat more exercise more approach as it allows more food. The times when I've gone with very low exercise and eating (16-1800 calories and just 3-4 workouts per week) when dieting I've gotten annoyingly food focused, constantly on my mind and ridiculous cravings. Having said that there seems to be a limit to how much I can eat if I want fat loss...even if I am doing daily HIIT (which I have experimented with) and 4 workouts per week I still can't eat much more than 2400-2600 and actively lose fat, not consistently at least.

Also when activity gets too high it seems my body starts fighting back and I'll have a stall where nothing seems to happen and I just get very lethargic/worn out. This could be from increased water weight from cortisol because often just a few days of a break will clear it up and I'll drop a few pounds suddenly, but the breaks definitely seem necessary.

I like to train, being in the gym (I have my own in my house) and I like to eat clean but a lot so I combine these two lol
I do not have scheduled workout split or routine, I do not even onow if I am going to train body paty 3 times a week or 0 times a week, but I do keep a log what I have done, as for example last week breakdown was:

Mon am-back/biceps pm-muay thai session
Tue am-shoulders/triceps pm-chest
Wed am-legs pm-1hour cardio liss
Thur am-biceps/triceps
Fri am-back
Sat am-chest/shoulders pm-muay thay session
Today are completely off day (vety rare lol)

I do at leat 4-5 exercises for big body parts and 3- 4 for smaller, 3-4 sets each

About diet - I do eat a lot! 6-7 times a day and usually have 1 meal at night, again my diet also varies I might eat 500-800g carbs if I train a lot during the day and I am hungry, but I can eat 200g carbs if I do not train. My protein always stays about 250g a day, I do not need more than that, and my fats are not very high too - have 2-4 yolks a day, eat chicken tights, wings, have some fish oils and flax seeds oil or olive oil on my salad. If I am not dieting I am cheating every day have ice cream pwo, eat some chocolate, cereal, etc I just do not eat fast foods even on my biggest cheats, I hate fast foods

 

[sammy555]

Sounds like you just love to eat bro. You never know where your going to end up in terms of macros on cut as long as you reach your goal should be the focus point.

My metabolism is pretty consistent. Last cut I wrote my plan down for 8 weeks and just stuck to it. Didn't stall once. Worked out fine. You are right I like to eat and if I push to hard I just Cave in and end up binging and obsessing about food. I can drop a ton of fat in 8 weeks without going below 3000 or using fat burners. If I want shredded glutes id have to dig a little deeper but if not competing why worry. 8% is lean enough for me. Below 3000 I become a moody, lethargic ass hole and being happy around my son is more important than losing that last bit of fat of my ass cheeks. That's why I have a cut off point. For a while now I've just been eating as much as I want when I want and gaining well and staying lean, but bloated

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[sleepmode]

Im with eat more train more, my body hates limiting food intake, naturally around 3k cal for me

 

[biglizard225]

For me I choose neither. Its a broad spectrum of amswers because It's a balance of both a perfect harmony of training and eating and cardio for pre contest.

In other words, Some days eat more train less. Some other days, train more eat less, and so on... And other things come into play as far as what your taking, that plays a role in your recovery as well..

I think though if I had to absolutely choose the majority the time I lean more towards training ALOT and eating a decent amount to stay full and lean out at the same time.

 

[sammy555]

Well last June I answered this thread with eat less do less. These days im eat more exercise more and will never go back. Just feel much better and don't have to fight the constant hunger signals. 45 minutes cardio in the evening brings me 45 minutes closer to my next meal also

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Well last June I answered this thread with eat less do less. These days im eat more exercise more and will never go back. Just feel much better and don't have to fight the constant hunger signals. 45 minutes cardio in the evening brings me 45 minutes closer to my next meal also

Thanks for the update! How many calories were you eating then and how many are you eating now?

I have found that, despite high amounts of activity, my calories still have to get pretty damn low. I was just talking to a friend about this who competes and he thinks I'm eating too much with 2000 calories per day lol. While it is annoying, it seems I have to eat very little to lose weight at an appreciable rate.

My body seems to adapt very quickly to dropping calories. I was maintaining with 3500 calories back in January with no cardio at all. Now I'm eating 2000 calories per day on average and doing daily cardio, so a ~2000 calorie swing per day compared to what I used to be doing, and I'm barely dropping weight. Less than 1 pound per week.

Additionally, I recall back in high school I was on the swim team doing 1-2 hours of cardio per day, along with 3 full body workouts per week, and dieting on 2200 calories, and was stalled out. So as much as I love to eat it does seem I often just have to eat less.

 

[sammy555]

Thanks for the update! How many calories were you eating then and how many are you eating now?

I have found that, despite high amounts of activity, my calories still have to get pretty damn low. I was just talking to a friend about this who competes and he thinks I'm eating too much with 2000 calories per day lol. While it is annoying, it seems I have to eat very little to lose weight at an appreciable rate.

My body seems to adapt very quickly to dropping calories. I was maintaining with 3500 calories back in January with no cardio at all. Now I'm eating 2000 calories per day on average and doing daily cardio, so a ~2000 calorie swing per day compared to what I used to be doing, and I'm barely dropping weight. Less than 1 pound per week.

Additionally, I recall back in high school I was on the swim team doing 1-2 hours of cardio per day, along with 3 full body workouts per week, and dieting on 2200 calories, and was stalled out. So as much as I love to eat it does seem I often just have to eat less.

The very lowest I go is 400,300,30 cpf. With incidentals probably about 3200 calories but I count macros not calories. This is of im doing a mini cut and stripping down fast. I can drop about 15lb in 2 weeks on clen doing this. Otherwise i start at about 4000 and no cardio then keep adding cardio and probably end up at about 3500 at the bitter end but still 500 carbs. I can't function on 3000 for more than a week or 2. My body also adapts fast to calorie restriction so I keep them quite high to keep metabolism going and just burn it off. I'll also once a week eat about 6000 calories with 1000 g of carbs about 3 weeks into a cut

 

[Deleted member 106824]

The very lowest I go is 400,300,30 cpf. With incidentals probably about 3200 calories but I count macros not calories. This is of im doing a mini cut and stripping down fast. I can drop about 15lb in 2 weeks on clen doing this. Otherwise i start at about 4000 and no cardio then keep adding cardio and probably end up at about 3500 at the bitter end but still 500 carbs. I can't function on 3000 for more than a week or 2. My body also adapts fast to calorie restriction so I keep them quite high to keep metabolism going and just burn it off. I'll also once a week eat about 6000 calories with 1000 g of carbs about 3 weeks into a cut

Your body is insane man. I reread the thread and even last year when you said "eat less exercise less" you were still saying 3000 is the lowest you go...so I'm not sure if your current approach is really much different. But in any case that's crazy to me that you can still lose fat eating that much.

I have a number of friends with faster metabolisms who would eat 4-5000 per day to bulk, but my 2-3 closest friends that used to do this would also still eventually have to get down to 1800-2200 calories or so, with cardio, to get to 8%. So even with them eating so much in the off season they eventually had to drop almost as low as me. The fact that you can average 3500-4000 and lose fat so quickly is astonishing. Lucky bastard

 

[sammy555]

Your body is insane man. I reread the thread and even last year when you said "eat less exercise less" you were still saying 3000 is the lowest you go...so I'm not sure if your current approach is really much different. But in any case that's crazy to me that you can still lose fat eating that much.

I have a number of friends with faster metabolisms who would eat 4-5000 per day to bulk, but my 2-3 closest friends that used to do this would also still eventually have to get down to 1800-2200 calories or so, with cardio, to get to 8%. So even with them eating so much in the off season they eventually had to drop almost as low as me. The fact that you can average 3500-4000 and lose fat so quickly is astonishing. Lucky bastard

I still get just as hungry and feel shit on 3500 calories though as most do on low calories. I'm lean growing at the moment on 4500, bit more training days. All clean and im still having to bloat myself out on veg to fight hunger. I'll increase by about 500 cals next few weeks though. Im eating 3 lb of boiled chicken breast a day and 300g medalion steak and 7 meals on average and still just want to eat all the time.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I still get just as hungry and feel shit on 3500 calories though as most do on low calories. I'm lean growing at the moment on 4500, bit more training days. All clean and im still having to bloat myself out on veg to fight hunger. I'll increase by about 500 cals next few weeks though. Im eating 3 lb of boiled chicken breast a day and 300g medalion steak and 7 meals on average and still just want to eat all the time.

Even if that's true, the big difference is you still get to enjoy all that food. For example when I did Lyle McDonalds Rapid Fat Loss diet I only ate ~1300 calories. Currently I am dieting on 2000 calories. In both instances I am equally hungry (because RFL is essentially keto and keeps the hunger pangs more manageable) but 2000 is far better because, while I'm still hungry all day, I can at least eat an additional 700 calories of enjoyable foods. With 3500+ you can still eat amazing and large meals all day even if you are hungry.

Having said that, I'm just pointing that out, not saying it's easy in either case, as bodybuilding rarely is

Intermittent Fasting helps a bit with the hunger, but eventually most of us will hit a point when dieting (and often even when bulking) where we get pretty damn hungry unfortunately. I found the ECA stack to help this but it's not something I want to take anymore.

 

[Whey2Heavy]

Eat less do less for me. I'll never drop intensity and reduce volume before I take a hit on the amount of weight i lift. I hold muscle real well doing this. I prefer less gear cutting to. Just feel better and don't get the cravings for food. I work 12 hour shifts and my son stays with me on days of so this approach is as much out of necessity than anything. So long as I get 3 sessions in at gym I can use my cross trainer at home when I like. I will increase cardio before stopping carbs though

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This is the exat way I approach my cuts. I'm a high volume trainer when bulking/maintaining, but doing so on a cut leads to me sacrificing intensity. Sacrificing intensity and weight on the bar is the LAST thing I want to do in the gym, and I would rather do one ball busting set of an exercise with heavy weights than doing more sets/volume with lighter weights for the sake of volume if my energy is low when dieting. I usually time my cuts around when I am going to be the busiest, IE Final exams or something so my mind is off food anyway.

 

[Chode Logan]

I love to train, as long as the cardio doesn't get crazy I'm a firm believer in eat more/do more. I DO NOT believe that not eating calories has the same effect as eating them and burning them off...at least my body never seemed to show that as true in how I look.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I love to train, as long as the cardio doesn't get crazy I'm a firm believer in eat more/do more. I DO NOT believe that not eating calories has the same effect as eating them and burning them off...at least my body never seemed to show that as true in how I look.

I'm not sure why my body seems to resist that method. It could be in part due to increased water retention from increased exercising and food intake, but for instance this entire week I've eaten an little more and done a ton of cardio in addition to my regular workouts, and have actually gained a bit of weight, and look a little softer. In theory the extra cardio should have more than canceled out the slightly more calories I'm eating but it doesn't seem to have. Transient water changes can make it hard to tell though.

 

[sammy555]

I'm not sure why my body seems to resist that method. It could be in part due to increased water retention from increased exercising and food intake, but for instance this entire week I've eaten an little more and done a ton of cardio in addition to my regular workouts, and have actually gained a bit of weight, and look a little softer. In theory the extra cardio should have more than canceled out the slightly more calories I'm eating but it doesn't seem to have. Transient water changes can make it hard to tell though.

I think us guys that thrive and lose fat on very high carb diets seem to benifit most from this approach. The carbs keep our metabolism racing and we burn a lot more calories than we should on cardio. Carb sensitive guys don't have this option though. Some people just need to not put the calories in. Calorie restriction my metabolism adapts to, cardio just keeps working and working. I hardly change diet at all through a cut now exept for increasing the calories on refeed days as I get leaner