Effective progressive overload methods for advanced

[qbkilla]

Oh I agree, I like the double progression method, and I have never ramped volume in a BB plan, but have waved volume in my older powerlifting plans.


From his videos and talks…he usually likes to do 14-16 week “courses” starting from 70ish sets a week…slowly crawling up to 100 sets a week for the next 6 weeks. Week 8 or the halfway point he drops volume back to 80ish sets, and the next 7 weeks crawl up to 110-120 sets. Then it’s a week off, then assess health markers, soft tissue, psyche, body comp…then plan the next phase

Seems like a decent method but doesn't have to be as complicated as he makes it. Doesn't he have Asperger's? A little OCD for my taste lol

 

[danieltx]

Not if you’re using volume to drive the overload. That’s not how his programs work.

When you progress load, you’re writing a program that lets you recover enough or fully, to create a new maximal tension stimulus.

Chavez programs use volume and fatigue to drive progress. You are not supposed to be fully recovered later on in the weeks.

The volume is supposed to be easy, tolerable , hard, wipe you out…Deload.

I’m sure he adds load if the exercise moves out of the rep range, but if you add load on set one from last week, AND you have to carry that load for another set added from last week that thrashed you…..it won’t go well

True. I wouldn't necessarily run it the way he does. But you can add volume and progressive overload it's not like If you do you will immediately overtrain. You can add volume aggressive or slow as you want.

For example rear delts. Monday is shoulder day. The heavy exercise is rear delt rows 3x12 aim to add weight or reps to that first set. Then after do reverse pec Dec week 1 so you fail in the 20-30 rep range. Say week 1 25.

So week two you use the reverse pec Dec again make sure you get 30, may need a mini set. Week 3 ..35. And so on. Many ways to do it.

I think the overall question, how long does Chavez say we should train before needing a deload? 4 weeks? I think the faster we push the gas the sooner we need that week off. Do we want to push so hard that we need to deload every 5th week, or push not as hard and aim to be wiped out after 12 weeks

Oh I agree, I like the double progression method, and I have never ramped volume in a BB plan, but have waved volume in my older powerlifting plans.


From his videos and talks…he usually likes to do 14-16 week “courses” starting from 70ish sets a week…slowly crawling up to 100 sets a week for the next 6 weeks. Week 8 or the halfway point he drops volume back to 80ish sets, and the next 7 weeks crawl up to 110-120 sets. Then it’s a week off, then assess health markers, soft tissue, psyche, body comp…then plan the next phase

This is a great example of why many struggle with progress - I've never put any time into thinking about stuff like this for my training.

If I'm feeling run down I take a day off. If I'm feeling good I train as many days in a row as I can. When I get in the gym I want 2.5lbs. - 5lbs. more for the same reps or the same weight for more reps. I've never thought deloads, mesocycles, training blocks, ramping volume, none of that shit.

Find the movements you feel stress the target muscle the best and get as strong as you can on them over time. That's how you train to pack on tons of size.

 

[qbkilla]

This is a great example of why many struggle with progress - I've never put any time into thinking about stuff like this for my training.

If I'm feeling run down I take a day off. If I'm feeling good I train as many days in a row as I can. When I get in the gym I want 2.5lbs. - 5lbs. more for the same reps or the same weight for more reps. I've never thought deloads, mesocycles, training blocks, ramping volume, none of that shit.

Find the movements you feel stress the target muscle the best and get as strong as you can on them over time. That's how you train to pack on tons of size.

I agree for the most part I don't like the Mike Israetel Chavez "science nerds" terminology they insist on such as meso cycles and calling a week off a deload, and lol at Chavez calling his time before a week off a "course" good God. I do use the terminology because that's what people call them now days.

One thing I do much different than you described, I never take a day off. It's 5 training days 2 rest/cardio.if I'm feeling fatigued I push through until I'm so beat up I take a whole week off.

From your post though it looks like you train e every day, no planned rest days unless you feel you need one? I've never tried that, always incorporated 2 rest days a week, but that method is interesting and it obviously works for you and does seem logical.

 

[xpoc]

This is a great example of why many struggle with progress - I've never put any time into thinking about stuff like this for my training.

If I'm feeling run down I take a day off. If I'm feeling good I train as many days in a row as I can. When I get in the gym I want 2.5lbs. - 5lbs. more for the same reps or the same weight for more reps. I've never thought deloads, mesocycles, training blocks, ramping volume, none of that shit.

Find the movements you feel stress the target muscle the best and get as strong as you can on them over time. That's how you train to pack on tons of size.

The never ending debate as to what works best...when we have examples of everything but nothing working best. Some of the biggest guys in the game keep detailed log books, track EVERYTHING including sleep/food in addition to loads, sets, reps etc. Dorian Yates, Jordan Peters, Dante Trudel, Dusty Hanshaw. Then, you have guys who are purely instinctual like Phil Hernon. He trained as many days as he could, took a day off when he felt he needed it and ate only when hungry. Personally, I find value in structured training blocks with progressive overload...followed by a structured deload/deconditioning...and then repeat. Mentally, that is what is easiest for me to wrap my head around. I think this is a left brain/right brain thing. Some guys like science and math.... some guys like arts and crafts.

 

[danieltx]

The never ending debate as to what works best...when we have examples of everything but nothing working best. Some of the biggest guys in the game keep detailed log books, track EVERYTHING including sleep/food in addition to loads, sets, reps etc. Dorian Yates, Jordan Peters, Dante Trudel, Dusty Hanshaw. Then, you have guys who are purely instinctual like Phil Hernon. He trained as many days as he could, took a day off when he felt he needed it and ate only when hungry. Personally, I find value in structured training blocks with progressive overload...followed by a structured deload/deconditioning...and then repeat. Mentally, that is what is easiest for me to wrap my head around. I think this is a left brain/right brain thing. Some guys like science and math.... some guys like arts and crafts.

That's what it's all about. Excellent analogy.

 

[danieltx]

I agree for the most part I don't like the Mike Israetel Chavez "science nerds" terminology they insist on such as meso cycles and calling a week off a deload, and lol at Chavez calling his time before a week off a "course" good God. I do use the terminology because that's what people call them now days.

One thing I do much different than you described, I never take a day off. It's 5 training days 2 rest/cardio.if I'm feeling fatigued I push through until I'm so beat up I take a whole week off.

From your post though it looks like you train e every day, no planned rest days unless you feel you need one? I've never tried that, always incorporated 2 rest days a week, but that method is interesting and it obviously works for you and does seem logical.

I generally train 3 on 1 off but I don't make that a hard rule - if I'm feeling good I'll go 4-5 or however many it is in a row until I feel I need a break. When I was on my rebound last year I was doing stretches of 10 days in a row training. And conversely if I take a day off but wake up the next day not feeling all the way recovered then I'll take that day off too.

Putting hard rules on things is one of the biggest mistakes in bodybuilding. There are many things that are good as general guidelines but we shouldn't become militant about them because that limits progress.

 

[juggy38]

This is a great example of why many struggle with progress - I've never put any time into thinking about stuff like this for my training.

If I'm feeling run down I take a day off. If I'm feeling good I train as many days in a row as I can. When I get in the gym I want 2.5lbs. - 5lbs. more for the same reps or the same weight for more reps. I've never thought deloads, mesocycles, training blocks, ramping volume, none of that shit.

Find the movements you feel stress the target muscle the best and get as strong as you can on them over time. That's how you train to pack on tons of size.

Oh I’m an old school DC die hard, I agree 💯 . I was just regurgitating all of Chavez’s ranting best I could.

I will mix it up a little if I get in the gym and the first two exercises are complete shit due to sleep/food/stress.

I don’t do DC RP much anymore, but the log book and attacking Each set I kept.

 

[psychor]

I generally train 3 on 1 off but I don't make that a hard rule - if I'm feeling good I'll go 4-5 or however many it is in a row until I feel I need a break. When I was on my rebound last year I was doing stretches of 10 days in a row training. And conversely if I take a day off but wake up the next day not feeling all the way recovered then I'll take that day off too.

Putting hard rules on things is one of the biggest mistakes in bodybuilding. There are many things that are good as general guidelines but we shouldn't become militant about them because that limits progress.

In my(our) pursuit to find the "magic" or "perfect" training program, I sometimes think that I/we overthink over analyze things in our effort to ensure maximum progress. I don't think that's a bad thing necessarily, however if we research and test our concepts or ideas because in the end if I/we conclude that our consistent and basic strategies done consistently over time will produce the best or most desirable results, then at least we can possibly demean or exclude altogether certain ideas or strategies.

Still to this day before every workout I find myself possibly overthinking the details which could offer some benefit. But most of the time after the workout, I see that if I just do smart and efficient hard work, I will have good success. In other words, if I concentrate on completing good reps with enough resistance while doing it enough to spur as much growth as possible, then it was a "successful" workout to me.

I think it was Lou Ferigno who said that....."bodybuilding isn't something that you think about....it's something that you DO"! My .02 cents