Effective progressive overload methods for advanced

[qbkilla]

I work out the same way, I've been doing DC 2 or 3 way for longer than 20 years. I hit failure on all 3 mini sets plus on the last mini set I'll take another 3 breaths and get another rep, do it again for a partial with a hold. What Alfresco was saying is there more in the tank. I was saying maybe with a spotter, you could hit negative failure...but hitting the muscle again with another 3 mini sets 4 days later would wreck the CNS, I'd rather hit it again with 18-20 total reps again than try and pull that deep and have to recover longer.

Very good points. Anyone not taking dc rest pause mini sets to failure isn't doing them right. They are doing rpe/rir whatever Mike Israetel is having them call it now days.

However One thing to point out on the DC 5 way advanced split, there are muscle groups hit more than once per week using rest pause. There is a chest day where you can perform one rest paused set for triceps after chest. Then 4 days later you hit triceps again with 2 movements rest paused then a straight set on tri/ shoulder day

So 3 rest pause exercise per week and one straight set for triceps.

 

[alfresco]

Test time.

Related to working to failure.

Why are you stronger in the eccentric portion of the exercise as compared to the concentric portion?

 

[Cerberus777]

Test time.

Related to working to failure.

Why are you stronger in the eccentric portion of the exercise as compared to the concentric portion?

Less oxygen required, less motor units to decrease tention of the muscle vs increasing it.

 

[qbkilla]

Test time.

Related to working to failure.

Why are you stronger in the eccentric portion of the exercise as compared to the concentric portion?

id assume gravity?

 

[M@NU]

id assume gravity?

xD
ever used a horizontal maschine?

 

[rippedyearround]

Fewer motor units are required to lower a weight compared to raising a weight.

Resisting gravity is easier than overcoming it.

 

[headtrainer]

I think it could be an interesting topic to discuss and learn from other people.
What progressive overload methods do you use? For years I myself approached it in such a way that my first exercise was done according to some powerfifting schedule and then I went to purely bodybuilding work in the later part of the training. After such 8-12 weeks, thanks to the software, I gained maximum strength and often new PR, which I could use later in the mass building stage and work with greater loads in the "top and back off set" system. But now, years later, it doesn't work that well anymore and, in fact, for 1.5 years I haven't been able to use up to 90% of my old strength. I thought about high volume training, something like training in the oxygen gym, and I wonder how to progress here. I think that the "rep goal" system would suit the best - someone trains with this system or maybe has other ideas for effective progression.

I would try 2-3 top sets instead of one and then move to your back off sets. I would also train each muscle group only once a week.

 

[alfresco]

Strength. Negative vs positive.

Come on guys, you can do better than that

The answer is universal on planet Earth.

 

[qbkilla]

I've been doing a simple version of Myo reps for small muscle groups where continuous weight increase is not always possible instead of drop sets. Pick a weight can hit 15... failure.. then catch breath and force my way to 30 hitting failure each mini set. 33 next week then 36 etc.

 

[Cerberus777]

Strength. Negative vs positive.

Come on guys, you can do better than that

The answer is universal on planet Earth.

Well I answered why lol...but you're stronger and do more "damage" in the negative. So there's more negative reps left.

 

[hawkmoon]

I've been doing a simple version of Myo reps for small muscle groups where continuous weight increase is not always possible instead of drop sets. Pick a weight can hit 15... failure.. then catch breath and force my way to 30 hitting failure each mini set. 33 next week then 36 etc.

Similar, but I top out at 20 reps. I pretty much always fall back to DC style training, nowadays with JP's 2-4 rep warmup sets.

 

[Dens228]

Similar, but I top out at 20 reps. I pretty much always fall back to DC style training, nowadays with JP's 2-4 rep warmup sets.

I find the same thing. I may drift from it for a bit but always circle back around.

 

[danieltx]

Here's an idea for legs.

I rarely squat any more, just leg press, and I've been trying to find different ways to challenge myself other than purely weight / reps but still achieving progressive overload on the muscles.

I work up with 10-20 reps per set when I do volume or 5-6 if I'm going to hit work sets as heavy as possible. Today my goal was to maximize tension but still hit some really heavy sets. I went close to as many reps as possible on every third set, with the others being just 5 reps but as slow down and up as I could go. Numbers came out to:

• 90 x 21
• 180 x 5
• 270 x 5
• 360 x 20
• 450 x 5
• 540 x 5
• 630 x 20
• 720 x 5
• 810 x 5
• 900 x 13
• 1,130 x 12 - with knee wraps
• 1,130 x 10 - with knee wraps
• 810 x 10
• 720 x 11

Quads get sore for me quicker than anything else - they're sore from the time I leave the gym into the next 1-2 days. Tomorrow will be the real test but they're feeling decently beat right now.

 

[alfresco]

Test time.

Related to working to failure.

Why are you stronger in the eccentric portion of the exercise as compared to the concentric portion?

It's called friction. Muscular friction.

Hurts you when you are pushing, helps you when you are lowering.

 

[qbkilla]

It's called friction. Muscular friction.

Hurts you when you are pushing, helps you when you are lowering.

A couple things I've been doing, the cluster sets Myo reps, but I use failure similar to rp, which it seems most don't like when using Myo reps

Example incline DB side laterals slow...I'll do 20's I can get 15 with perfect from till I fail....take 4 breaths...rep out till failure again,...4 breaths...keep going...hit 30

Next week same weight same process, but now we're going to 33, the following week 36

I also heard a podcast where a guy (admitting I don't know who he is could be Joe blow) talking about how machine can let you tax the muscle harder because in many free weight exercises you always hit failure due to a mechanical disadvantage, ie bench press at the bottom. Where say on a pin stack chest press (sitting vertical) you can tax the muscle better because you don't have that disadvantage at any point

Another example would be bent overall BB rows, you fail at pulling from the floor...where horizontal cable pull you can fail at any point

Not sure if it's logical but food for thought, I've always been a free weight guy but makes some sense

 

[qbkilla]

What do you guys think of Giant sets? I've been listening to Milos seems like he is a big advocate. 4 exercises consecutive no rest. Looks like the first 3 aren't to failure?

 

[juggy38]

I’ve been watching a few logs from guys on Broderick Chavez’s site and one big guy at Meso. They have progressive High intensity little twist I might try.

A leg day ex:

Leg curl: work to a max 10 rep set
Leg press: same as above
Hacks: work to a top 15-20 rep set
RDL: heavy ass 6-8 rep.

Wk2: you hit your max set, then DC style ONE extra mini set. Like leg cure would be 11 reps, 6 reps.

Week 3…..add one more mini set…so leg curl would be 12,7,4.

Week 4: add one more mini set….Leg curl 13,8,5,3.

Then back to week 1, crank the load up.

The very low volume week 1 is kinda a mini Deload, and week 4 is pretty rough, a 4 mini set RP for two exercises per muscle

 

[TheOtherOne55]

I’ve been watching a few logs from guys on Broderick Chavez’s site and one big guy at Meso. They have progressive High intensity little twist I might try.

A leg day ex:

Leg curl: work to a max 10 rep set
Leg press: same as above
Hacks: work to a top 15-20 rep set
RDL: heavy ass 6-8 rep.

Wk2: you hit your max set, then DC style ONE extra mini set. Like leg cure would be 11 reps, 6 reps.

Week 3…..add one more mini set…so leg curl would be 12,7,4.

Week 4: add one more mini set….Leg curl 13,8,5,3.

Then back to week 1, crank the load up.

The very low volume week 1 is kinda a mini Deload, and week 4 is pretty rough, a 4 mini set RP for two exercises per muscle

Interestinnngg..this seems to ride a volume wave a little bit more than I normally do but cool approach.
Recovery would really need to be dialed in as volume isn't set. You're basically trying to beat reps....while adding additional volume.
This is basically a very intense Mike Isratel RP setup lol but on Mike's, guys make progress because its basically a 70%, 80%, 90%, 100% buildup.
This, right off the bat, is 100% intensity. Difficult to do in the long run, at least for me.

Just thinking out loud here, there might not be a real reason to try and beat your RP mini set rep totals from week to week.
Week 1 you hit 200x11, week 2 you hit 200x11 + 4, and week 3, is there a real reason to break 11 and 4 ALONG with adding additional volume?
I bet it can work for some, but just a lot of variables if you want to keep progressing. I would need to choose one, beating reps or adding volume.
One way to alter it might be to have a main top set and backoff set and then "add a RP mini set when you cannot progress the main working set."
Leg Curl
Week 1 - 200x11, 150x16
Week 3 - 200x11 + 5 reps, 150x17
Week 5 - 200x13, 150x17 + 8
Week 7 - 200x14, 150x18

I also wouldnt use the same rotations every week. I need A/B rotations in order to keep progressing, I cannot just do 1 lift for 4 weeks and make jumps every time.
Very interesting approach though. Can you link the meso thread @juggy38 ?

 

[marssel]

What do you guys think of Giant sets? I've been listening to Milos seems like he is a big advocate. 4 exercises consecutive no rest. Looks like the first 3 aren't to failure?

Fucking love em been doin em since 2008 really like lining up the hammer strength with lesser weight as I progress and I still do all to failure with some forced reps too, love GVT as well still highly underrated

 

[psychor]

I’ve been watching a few logs from guys on Broderick Chavez’s site and one big guy at Meso. They have progressive High intensity little twist I might try.

A leg day ex:

Leg curl: work to a max 10 rep set
Leg press: same as above
Hacks: work to a top 15-20 rep set
RDL: heavy ass 6-8 rep.

Wk2: you hit your max set, then DC style ONE extra mini set. Like leg cure would be 11 reps, 6 reps.

Week 3…..add one more mini set…so leg curl would be 12,7,4.

Week 4: add one more mini set….Leg curl 13,8,5,3.

Then back to week 1, crank the load up.

The very low volume week 1 is kinda a mini Deload, and week 4 is pretty rough, a 4 mini set RP for two exercises per muscle

Just thinking out loud, another option if you want to keep total volume down then instead of adding more volume on all exercises, only add the extra sets and RP on certain movements. For example, only progressively add the volume on hacks for a few weeks and then deload on that movement while conversely adding the same volume sets and RP to a hamstring movement. I also realize that this strategy may not be as good or as productive for someone who is maybe trying to bring up a "lagging' body part or just wants to improve a certain body part or a specific exercise. Again, just thinking out loud to consider real world fatigue if that could be a factor in limiting progress or growth. GREAT DISCUSSION!!