Effective Sleeping Pills/Agents?

[Abomb]

Have you tried Lunesta. Leaves awful aftertaste though.

 

[Mikee]

Nyquil and Melatonin knocks me out

 

[vein5]

The problem is alot of these meds you can become dependant on.

 

[N623]

Reefer...just like mom use to make. Use a vaporizer.:headbang:

 

[CBRXX]

Trazodone for insomnia. It's the only thing that worked for me, especially for tren related insomnia.

 

[stankyleg]

Passion flower always does it for me

 

[bagua]

I will chime in one more time.
Getting to the root cause of insomnia can be a very difficult endeavour because all forms of therapy are time consuming and open up many different avenues to explore. Not knowing a lot about your history I wouldn't delve into that aspect on a board.
One thing to consider is a sleep ritual which is something I found worked for me for a period of time. You need to have at least a couple of hours to unwind and if you are working out in the evening/night this can be difficult. Pick two hour when you do the same things to prep yourself for bed. This can be having a meal, watching a bit of TV (hopefully the TV is not in your bedroom) or reading a book. Sex can be thrown in there as well. Use this time period to relax and unwind before you head to the bedroom (unless of course if sex is part of the ritual) as this will help with the cycling of thoughts that keep many of us awake.
Try not to put too much pressure on yourself to fall asleep, but if you are still awake after 30 minutes or so get up. Read a bit or have something relaxing to do. Many people get into puzzles for this time period. The table puzzles with 1000 pieces or so, word searches, stuff like that. Work on them until you feel drowsy and then try sleeping once again. Sleep rituals work for some people but not all. It may be worth a try.

 

[Ali]

Suprised this hasn't been mentioned, if so my bad i must of missed it. True Protein Sleep Aids are hands down the best product. That mixed with their zma is a great combo.

 

[overman]

curious

You mentioned trying a variety of sleep medications (extremely potent ones), stimulants (Adderall), and other OTC supplements. What all are you taking? What was the rationale for these prescriptions? Diagnosis? What does your typical day look like? Overweight? Neck 17" or greater for a male or 16" if a female? Sleep study? Using unapproved peptides to control insulin?

I am just curious...this is an incredibly unusual situation and I am very familiar with the DISTRESS associated with sleep disturbances. What would happen if you discontinued all sleep/energy related medications?

 

[reebokrunner456]

Have you tried Lunesta. Leaves awful aftertaste though.

Thanks! Others have suggested this as well. If it works, the awful aftertaste would not even be an inconvenience compared to the shit I've gone thru.

Nyquil and Melatonin knocks me out

Trazodone for insomnia. It's the only thing that worked for me, especially for tren related insomnia.

Tradozone was the hands down worse for me, followed by Ambien (coming in a close 2nd). Nyquil + Mel were very ineffective and made things worse as well.

The problem is alot of these meds you can become dependant on.

As I mentioned before, I'm aware of the risks AND my intent is not to use these agents permanently but to get my circadian cycle back on track.

Reefer...just like mom use to make. Use a vaporizer.:headbang:

That's one thing I haven't tried and don't plan on it!

Passion flower always does it for me

Do you take this individually or as part of a formula. The [so-called] #1 sleep selling formula I took last night contained passion flower… no dice to that either.

Suprised this hasn't been mentioned, if so my bad i must of missed it. True Protein Sleep Aids are hands down the best product. That mixed with their zma is a great combo.

I've tried most if not all of the stuff in there, but I know ratios, purity, etc. can make/break a formula. May just give this a try. Their protein is the shit and the fish oil is awesome, so I'll prolly pick some up next time I order.

I will chime in one more time.
Getting to the root cause of insomnia can be a very difficult endeavour because all forms of therapy are time consuming and open up many different avenues to explore. Not knowing a lot about your history I wouldn't delve into that aspect on a board.
One thing to consider is a sleep ritual which is something I found worked for me for a period of time. You need to have at least a couple of hours to unwind and if you are working out in the evening/night this can be difficult. Pick two hour when you do the same things to prep yourself for bed. This can be having a meal, watching a bit of TV (hopefully the TV is not in your bedroom) or reading a book. Sex can be thrown in there as well. Use this time period to relax and unwind before you head to the bedroom (unless of course if sex is part of the ritual) as this will help with the cycling of thoughts that keep many of us awake.
Try not to put too much pressure on yourself to fall asleep, but if you are still awake after 30 minutes or so get up. Read a bit or have something relaxing to do. Many people get into puzzles for this time period. The table puzzles with 1000 pieces or so, word searches, stuff like that. Work on them until you feel drowsy and then try sleeping once again. Sleep rituals work for some people but not all. It may be worth a try.

I've tried all that (sleep ritual), except for the sex part (no bf at the moment). And puzzles backfired. I used to do Sudkos but after a year of failure and now being in close to the worse shape in my life ever, (despite maximal efforts in the gym), I actually start to get anxious just looking a one.

I appreciate your advice but the main thing you seem to be missing is that it's not nerves keeping me up; in otherwords, it's not like I get into bed and immediately become anxious, like 'oh shit... here it goes again... omg... I'm not gonna be able to get to sleep tonight...' (like a lot ppl/friends feel). The handful of times I feel wired before bed is either from taking stimulants too late and/or from a super long workout that gives me a second wind. When this happens, I definitely do not even attempt to sleep.

Rather, I'm talking about most nights (95% of the time): I'll feel drop dead-exhausted, as in being so freakin sleep deprived that I'm seeing blurry, walking into things, barely functioning, feeling on verge of collapse (and even on the verge of sleep), but just not being able to get to sleep. Funny (ironic) thing is that when I feel this way between 5 AM - noon (or during the day), I'm always able to sleep...

So either my circadian cycle is flipped and/or the hypoglycemia I'm experiencing (from eating all my food at night) is preventing sleep.

You mentioned trying a variety of sleep medications (extremely potent ones), stimulants (Adderall), and other OTC supplements. What all are you taking? What was the rationale for these prescriptions? Diagnosis? What does your typical day look like? Overweight? Neck 17" or greater for a male or 16" if a female? Sleep study? Using unapproved peptides to control insulin?

I am just curious...this is an incredibly unusual situation and I am very familiar with the DISTRESS associated with sleep disturbances. What would happen if you discontinued all sleep/energy related medications?

Almost all of the sleep meds I have a prescription for, the exceptions being Ativan (which I tried from a friend) and Xanax (which I tried from my bro), basically to save time and money from having to take half a day off from work to go to my GP, pay the $20 co-pay, and have him try me on some of these same meds only to find they don't work.

Adderall, I tried once from a friend out of curiosity. IMO, it gave shitty energy and also made me crash, so there was most definitely no addiction to something that makes me feel like shit and I did not take it or have any desire to take it again.

Rationale for my GP prescribing the sleep meds - cuz I was/am ready to collapse and have troubling functioning on 1-3 hrs/day sleep. Diagnosis (as for sleep)... I'm not really sure if he gave me one. Cuz I DO sleep (and VERY well, w/o any meds) under the following circumstances: 1) at night like a normal person if I eat at last 2,000 calories in one sitting; 2) in the morning ~5:00 AM +/- an hour, without the influence of anything.

As for other diagnoses: post-prandial hypoglycemia, post-prandial hyperinsulinema, "pre-diabetic", and even one endocrinologist who diagnosed me as "diabetic" (despite perfect fasting blood glood).

Re: typical day. During the week I work regular 1st shift hours; typically do my first light workout (2-3 mi walking) at lunch around 1:00-3:00 PM; 2nd workout (more cardio and sometimes weights) around 5:30-8:30 PM. I'll get tired between 9:00-10:30 PM but can't sleep. Meal 1 has been around 9:00-10:00 PM; Sometimes I'll sleep right after, but usually the hypoglycemia keeps me awake. I'll have my 2nd Meal, (which is driven by hypoglycemia/exhaustion), 1-2 hrs. later, (and sometimes be able to sleep after that, but usually not); provided I haven't reached my caloric limit, I'll then have a 3rd Meal, 1-2 hrs. after my 2nd Meal (again, driven entirely by hypoglycemia).; if I have reached my caloric limit, then I'll just lie in bed exhausted, trying to sleep (which never happens); so I'll go to my gym at 4:30 in the morning and workout then… unfortunately, after over a year of this kind of sleep deprivation, one or more times a week I give in (and eat another meal, blowing my caloric goal), in order to be able to sleep.

Overweight? Depends what charts you look at. Yes, according to this - Height and Weight Chart (I'm 5'3" small framed female, so weight range listed is 111 - 124 and I'm ~130). No based on bodyfat; I [was] supposedly 17.7%, according to one of those bioimpedence scales, (although, after this past week, I've gained at least 1-3 lbs. of fat). I'm desperately trying to shed fat, and it's proving to be an impossible task.

As for my peptide use, the intent was not to control insulin; I'm still in search for something to help in that regard. The peptides have worked miracles to control my insane hunger levels, which, without them, is so excruciatingly painful that I would literally pass out from the pain. The hunger was what threw my circadian cycle out of whack to begin without; the painful hunger would prevent me sleeping and also cause me wake up from deep sleep in much pain; so the only way to get any sleep and prevent fat gain was to eat all my food during the night…

What would happen if you discontinued all sleep/energy related medications?
Discont. Sleep meds = no sleep
Discont. Stims = prolly lose my job because I would not be able to function, due to fatigue
Discont. Peptides = gain 2-3 lbs. of fat per week (literally. This is not speculation, and is exactly what started to happen to me back in 2008, where things really when whack with the insane hunger. Then I learned about and obtained hCG, which stopped the weight gain in its tracks and actually allowed me to get back to where I feel best (~110 lbs.).

 

[diesel1]

I do fine with my prami and ketofen before bed.

 

[BrettFavor]

Taking sleeping pills (Ambien, Lunesta, Sonota, etc.) or benzo's (xanax, valium, ativan, klonopin, etc.) can help you fall asleep, but they won't help you stay asleep and they actually REDUCE the amount of REM Sleep.

REM Sleep is the deepest level of sleep where you get the most rest. If you get good REM Sleep you will only need about 4-8 hours of sleep per night to feel rested depending on your age and daily activity level.


GABA is pretty effective at increasing REM Sleep. 5-HTP and Melatonin also can increase REM Sleep, but they have a hard time crossing the Blood Brain Barrier so that is why they are ineffective.

Try GABA again and increase the dosages.


Nyquil and all that OTC crap again might help you fall asleep, but it won't help you sleep better.


The key is to increase REM Sleep so you can sleep less and actually feel more rested and BE MORE RESTED.


If you are into peptides at all try Tyric-6 also known as pGH (It is GABA, GABOB, and magnesium amino-brominate(both are GABA derivatives, but it is relatively new and hard to find).

Another new peptide is Delta Sleep Inducing Peptide. It increases Delta Wave Sleep (REM Sleep), but it also hard to find and very new so the jury is still out.


I personally would just try GABA again and up the dosage or try Tyric-6 b/c it is legit.


Here are some overall sleep tips:

**Fall asleep at the same time every night and wake up the same time every morning. This will become a habit and before you know it your body will tell you it's time to go to sleep.

**Sleep in a completely dark room with no sound. No TV, No Radio, Nothing.

**No Caffeine or any other stimulants after 5PM.

**Make your dinner or any late night snacks have NO CARBS. If you do have carbs make sure they are complex carbs. Sugar can keep you up.

**Don't take your vitamins at night. Most multivitamins include things that can keep you awake. At the very least B vitamins and usually other stuff.

**ZMA at bedtime can help

**Wake up after 4,6, or 8 hours. You experience "waves" of sleep and if you wake up during a delta wave (REM Sleep) you will feel like crap in the morning. But if you wake up as you cycle into a lighter sleep which happens every 3-4 hours then you can wake up very easily.

 

[vegasnv]

Reebokrunner456, I have PTSD, and I have a very difficult time sleeping. I have been prescribed Lunesta before and it worked very well. I also have this Homemedics SoundSpa Classic clock/radio that has a rain sound that is very relaxing to hear as background sound and it's only $30. I hope this helps.

 

[shortyshort]

have you heard of seroquel? i forgot what its for.. it is not made for sleep but many take it for sleep, i believe..

they are prescribed by the shrink, non addictive and you will get 6-8hrs no waking up for sure.
but it will make you hungry like you got some homeless guy living in your stomach before you goto bed. i mean you will literally eat till you can't anymore and eat some more. you will get you fat.

 

[Creed428]

Xanax apparently = no dice either, seeing that I'm awake and typing this almost 4 hrs. after 1/2 mg.

have you tried a higher dose with the xanax? I personally have never felt anything when less than 2mg is taken

 

[reebokrunner456]

I do fine with my prami and ketofen before bed.

Interesting combo… ketofen as in the veterinary med? As for dopamine agents, I've tried a decent dose of bromo (10 mgs) at night after reading Lyle McDonald's 'bromo book'. No dice to the bromo (for fat loss or sleep).

Reebokrunner456, I have PTSD, and I have a very difficult time sleeping. I have been prescribed Lunesta before and it worked very well. I also have this Homemedics SoundSpa Classic clock/radio that has a rain sound that is very relaxing to hear as background sound and it's only $30. I hope this helps.

Sorry to hear about the PTSD! And thanks for the tips. A few have mentioned Lunesta (and Soma), so I'm definitely keeping these in mind. Interesting about the rain sound… not sure that would work in my case, since the problem is definitely physiologic (hunger/hypoglycemia).

have you heard of seroquel? i forgot what its for.. it is not made for sleep but many take it for sleep, i believe..

they are prescribed by the shrink, non addictive and you will get 6-8hrs no waking up for sure.
but it will make you hungry like you got some homeless guy living in your stomach before you goto bed. i mean you will literally eat till you can't anymore and eat some more. you will get you fat.

LOL. Yes, a few friends that it and the munchie effect is exactly why I refuse to try it. After all, eating 2,000-3,000 cals in one sitting knocks me out cold w/o any meds, so taking something that gives the munchies defeats the whole purpose).

have you tried a higher dose with the xanax? I personally have never felt anything when less than 2mg is taken

Nah, my bro didn't have that much. But if 2 mg is the effective dose for sleep, I may not cross it off the list.

Taking sleeping pills (Ambien, Lunesta, Sonota, etc.) or benzo's (xanax, valium, ativan, klonopin, etc.) can help you fall asleep, but they won't help you stay asleep and they actually REDUCE the amount of REM Sleep.

REM Sleep is the deepest level of sleep where you get the most rest. If you get good REM Sleep you will only need about 4-8 hours of sleep per night to feel rested depending on your age and daily activity level.


GABA is pretty effective at increasing REM Sleep. 5-HTP and Melatonin also can increase REM Sleep, but they have a hard time crossing the Blood Brain Barrier so that is why they are ineffective.

Try GABA again and increase the dosages.


Nyquil and all that OTC crap again might help you fall asleep, but it won't help you sleep better.


The key is to increase REM Sleep so you can sleep less and actually feel more rested and BE MORE RESTED.


If you are into peptides at all try Tyric-6 also known as pGH (It is GABA, GABOB, and magnesium amino-brominate(both are GABA derivatives, but it is relatively new and hard to find).

Another new peptide is Delta Sleep Inducing Peptide. It increases Delta Wave Sleep (REM Sleep), but it also hard to find and very new so the jury is still out.


I personally would just try GABA again and up the dosage or try Tyric-6 b/c it is legit.


Here are some overall sleep tips:

**Fall asleep at the same time every night and wake up the same time every morning. This will become a habit and before you know it your body will tell you it's time to go to sleep.

**Sleep in a completely dark room with no sound. No TV, No Radio, Nothing.

**No Caffeine or any other stimulants after 5PM.

**Make your dinner or any late night snacks have NO CARBS. If you do have carbs make sure they are complex carbs. Sugar can keep you up.

**Don't take your vitamins at night. Most multivitamins include things that can keep you awake. At the very least B vitamins and usually other stuff.

**ZMA at bedtime can help

**Wake up after 4,6, or 8 hours. You experience "waves" of sleep and if you wake up during a delta wave (REM Sleep) you will feel like crap in the morning. But if you wake up as you cycle into a lighter sleep which happens every 3-4 hours then you can wake up very easily.

Wow! Thank you for all of the tips; very insightful!

I totally hear you about the shitty quality sleep that many of the meds offer. Trazodone is the hands down worst for that, followed by Ambien. Interestingly, I actually get excellent quality sleep and have very vivid dreams with Simply Sleep and/or Klonopin.

Anyhow, I'm definitely going to give GABA another go! I'd only tried 200 mg, and a quick Google search indicated that's not gonna be effective for sleep!

And thank you for mentioning the peptides. I'll definitely keep them in mind if all else fails…

 

[dempc]

seroquel, l-theanine, phenibut, l-tryptophan. All are worth looking into.

this stuff right here will knock you the f out... i slept for like 18 hours when i took it.

I take klonopin when i take anything and it works well.

 

[vein5]

Ketotifen works good but it makes you hungry and I feel tired until about 10am the next day. I have done lots of reseach bc I have had sleep studys done bc of my sleep. cortisol has alot to do with sleep when elevated at night, which goes hand in hand with stess.

 

[dcshores]

GABA does not cross the blood brain barrier. Phenibut is a form of GABA that can be purchased over the counter and does work well for many people. There is a company called Neuroscience that does a sleep profile that tests neurotransmitters while you sleep using saliva and urine. I have found this very helpful in insomnia patients.

 

[supernova]

valium and klonopin are very addictive-trazadone is pretty good but i wake up feeling hung over, so it's not worth it-ambien is pretty good-halcion is awesome but addictive and very hard to get