Enough androgens for high cal cut?

[normalkev]

Hey all,

I plan on cutting for the summer soon and wanted to try an aggressive cut, perhaps with 750 cals below TDEE. I'm on my HRT dose of 160 test and 80 mg nandrolone. Is that enough to hold on to my muscle? I'm at 18% bf and want to get to 11 or 12%. Is it worth adding in 100 mg of primo or mast?

 

[thedorkyd1]

Once again not enough information to give you a proper answer but assuming you are overly muscular from what you've written and considering you're only wanting to get down to 12%...which should be an absolute maximum bodyfat level any serious bodybuilder even comes close to hitting. Then yes your TRT will be sufficient for holding onto what you have.

 

[Virtuous]

Get to 12% then cut more to 10%, then go from there. @thedorkyd1 is right, being high teens bf% is not ideal for anything.

My only worry here is that since you crept up close to 20% bf, your diet/training is not on point, and if that’s the case you’ll need more drugs to mask those deficiencies.

If you’re eating, resting, and training properly then yeah that’s totally fine (presuming you’re not absolutely huge and well beyond your natural limit regarding lean tissue accrual).

 

[normalkev]

Sorry, I did not provide more information. I'm 42 and 176 lbs at 5'10. I started training about 2 years ago, better late than never. Anyhow, I just finished my first gaining phase and went up from 161 to 176 in about 5 months. I had Abs at the start and now they are mostly gone so I'm assuming I'm around 18 but that's just a guess.

 

[Virtuous]

176 lbs at 15+% bodyfat is not ideal man.

Good progress, though.

The gear levels are more than fine, pending bloodwork to make sure everything is going well.

 

[normalkev]

176 lbs at 15+% bodyfat is not ideal man.

Good progress, though.

The gear levels are more than fine, pending bloodwork to make sure everything is going well.

Thank you! I guess I'm learning as I go along. Maybe next time I'll post here for more advice before my next gaining phase. I'm learning what volume I respond to and how to increase my calories as I go along.

 

[qbkilla]

Get to 12% then cut more to 10%, then go from there. @thedorkyd1 is right, being high teens bf% is not ideal for anything.

My only worry here is that since you crept up close to 20% bf, your diet/training is not on point, and if that’s the case you’ll need more drugs to mask those deficiencies.

If you’re eating, resting, and training properly then yeah that’s totally fine (presuming you’re not absolutely huge and well beyond your natural limit regarding lean tissue accrual).

I agree with this. 12 percent is pretty high let alone 18. At 18 and at your weight/training history not only should you not lose muscle you can probably recomp. Looking at the bulk, do you think you gained mostly fat? I would do what your doing get to 8-9 then take a much slower approach so you don't end up at 18 again.

I typically maintain at 3000 and cut at 2000, I prefer aggressive cuts vs longer slower ones. And up AAS, use orals, keep volume low and focus on intensity with added cardio. You may want to try psmf. How many g of protein are you eating?

 

[juggy38]

70 inches 176lbs, 18% BF…..you can definitely lower calories pretty low. You don’t have a lean tissue amount that would require Supra physiological androgens to support.

Is the 80mg nandrolone for joint support? If not, swap it for 100mg tren, and you can drastically reduce calories and cut hard, or run a moderate deficit and probably still add some lean tissue if diet and training is proper.

Hard cut….50/25/25 protein/carb/fat %. 10 kcal per pound BW.

What does your training look like? Days per week? Cardio? Weekly set volume?

 

[normalkev]

I agree with this. 12 percent is pretty high let alone 18. At 18 and at your weight/training history not only should you not lose muscle you can probably recomp. Looking at the bulk, do you think you gained mostly fat? I would do what your doing get to 8-9 then take a much slower approach so you don't end up at 18 again.

I typically maintain at 3000 and cut at 2000, I prefer aggressive cuts vs longer slower ones. And up AAS, use orals, keep volume low and focus on intensity with added cardio. You may want to try psmf. How many g of protein are you eating?

Thank you. I'll aim to get lower than 12% for this cut and take a slower approach. I'm eating about 180g right now but during my gaining phase i was averaging 225 most days, maybe a bit more.

 

[normalkev]

70 inches 176lbs, 18% BF…..you can definitely lower calories pretty low. You don’t have a lean tissue amount that would require Supra physiological androgens to support.

Is the 80mg nandrolone for joint support? If not, swap it for 100mg tren, and you can drastically reduce calories and cut hard, or run a moderate deficit and probably still add some lean tissue if diet and training is proper.

Hard cut….50/25/25 protein/carb/fat %. 10 kcal per pound BW.

What does your training look like? Days per week? Cardio? Weekly set volume?

The nandrolone is for joint pain, I have fairly bad knees at this point in my life so it seems to help.

I think part of my issue during the gaining phase was trying to do way too much volume with a high level of intensity. I realized towards the end that my recovery was trashed. I kept trying to bump up calories to compensate which just increased BF but i should have cut my volume and probably kept my calories the same. I started off at 2800 when I was 161 and ended up going to 4000 at one point for a few weeks then i cut it back to 3500. I was running 300 test and 300 primo and i thought i should increase my volume since I increased my androgens. I even added a dedicated arm day which was too much.

Ironically, i'm making much better improvements now that i'm off cycle and cut my volume back and eating 3100 calories. During my bulk i was doing 16+ sets for most muscle groups or super high intensity like 5 seconds down on quad movements which wrecked me for days.

My current split Upper/lower/Rest/Upper/Lower/Rest/Rest
I'm probably at 8 RIR on each set.
Chest - 13 sets per week
Quads - 12 sets per week
Hamstrings - 8 sets per week
Back - 12 sets per week
Biceps - 8 sets per week
Triceps - 8 sets per week
Side delts - 8 sets per week

Cardio:
10k Steps per day
15mins ellipticial on workout days

 

[Virtuous]

You can take my advice and chuck it straight in the trash bin if you’d like, so don’t think of what I’m gonna say as gospel…

…but from how you’re talking (listing your training by isolated body parts), asking if you have sufficient androgens in the mix, using RIR…

…I think you’re over thinking and just have a case of fuckarounditis, meaning you’re not doing a whole lot but really trying to research and get knowledgeable.

Tbh if you were my friend at the gym, I’d tell you to get strong as hell on major compound lifts (knees aside, I get it), do 30-60 minutes of cardio fasted every morning, and find a sport to play recreationally to get more athletic movement involved.

You honestly have the body frame of most high school kids, and at 42 with that little amount of lean tissue you really don’t have much muscle - if you cut to 10% bf, you’ll weigh like 160lbs, which is tiny even at 70 inches.

You still need to cut that fat, though. I’d double your test, swap NPP for tren, sprinkle in 4iu gh, and make it more if a 6 month recomp where you get strong as hell, undulate your calories (low on rest/cardio only days, maintenance or a bit below on lifting days), and just get fit before anything.

 

[qbkilla]

You can take my advice and chuck it straight in the trash bin if you’d like, so don’t think of what I’m gonna say as gospel…

…but from how you’re talking (listing your training by isolated body parts), asking if you have sufficient androgens in the mix, using RIR…

…I think you’re over thinking and just have a case of fuckarounditis, meaning you’re not doing a whole lot but really trying to research and get knowledgeable.

Tbh if you were my friend at the gym, I’d tell you to get strong as hell on major compound lifts (knees aside, I get it), do 30-60 minutes of cardio fasted every morning, and find a sport to play recreationally to get more athletic movement involved.

You honestly have the body frame of most high school kids, and at 42 with that little amount of lean tissue you really don’t have much muscle - if you cut to 10% bf, you’ll weigh like 160lbs, which is tiny even at 70 inches.

You still need to cut that fat, though. I’d double your test, swap NPP for tren, sprinkle in 4iu gh, and make it more if a 6 month recomp where you get strong as hell, undulate your calories (low on rest/cardio only days, maintenance or a bit below on lifting days), and just get fit before anything.

Some good advice here. RIR? Train hard, your no where near your genetic potential learn to meet and love failure. 180g protein is 2 meals, 300+. Your at 18 hard cardio, steps hasn't kept you lean. Definitely focus on getting stronger with some isolation for those parts like arms, delts, rear delts, etc. Sounds like your doing a lot wrong so you have alot of gains on the table you can make if you fix them. Training hard to failure, doing hard cardio, eating protein like your trying to build or maintain muscle will make a bigger difference than the amount or type of AAS your using. How's pre and post workout nutrition?