ENOUGH WITH THE SLOPPY FORM ALREADY!!!

[sarcoplasm]

I know I am not well known on this board but I just watched a little of Dr Victor Prisk doing alternating dumbell curls in a video on the MD site and I ve got to say that his form is POOR!!! DON'T SOME PEOPLE REALIZE THAT BY SLOWING DOWN THE SPEED OF THE REP WILL PUT GREATER STRESS ON THE MUSCLE!!!!!! YOU CAN'T FREAKING SWIIIIING THE WEIGHT AND EXPECT THE MUSCLE TO GROW. YOU ACTUALLY BYPASS THE MUSCLE WHEN YOU DO THAT!! ALSO, ENOUGH WITH THESE BULLCRAP PARTIAL REPS WITH NO PAUSE AT THE BOTTOM AND PAUSE AT THE TOP OF THE MOVEMENT EITHER!!! THE MOVEMENT SHOULD BE SMOOTH!!! SURE YOU WANT TO TRAIN HEAVY BUT IT'S GOT TO BE RIGHT!!!! I DONT GET IT, ALSO YOU MUST LOWER THE WEIGHT SLOWLY MOST IMPORTANTLY!!!!! WHATS GOING ON HERE!!!!???
I feel a little better now flame me if you will.

 

[Swacked]

I support you on a slow and controlled negative portion of the rep.

 

[mule]

there is a place for loose form , it is even worse what your saying about tempo speed, though there is nothing wrong with a slightly smoother tempo either but totally righting off moving fast is a very bad idea. if you watch most elite bodybuilders train you will see most of them use loose form and also move the weight very quickly.

and about partials , again they work too, its about moving the weight through a range of motion that YOU feel in the muscle your trying to isolate not about some made up range of motion that someone else told you is best.

a lot of it comes down how you like to lift , are you more a mind to muscle type that like to feel everything or do you to move some weight with sheer brute speed and power, or you might like mixing it up. it all can work.

 

[Gutz4glory]

I do see alot more people using bad form just for the sake of swinging more weight most of them dont last very long though.

 

[mule]

I do see alot more people using bad form just for the sake of swinging more weight most of them dont last very long though.

it you see someone using bad form that obviously a beginner who has zero muscle they have no clue what their doing and are morons that are probably going to hurt themselves .its different when an experienced advanced lifter does it . there a proper method to doing it.

 

[Gutz4glory]

it you see someone using bad form that obviously a beginner who has zero muscle they have no clue what their doing and are morons that are probably going to hurt themselves .its different when an experienced advanced lifter does it . there a proper method to doing it.

I hear ya.

 

[machola]

i use good form because i fear an injury. but, i see guys a hell of a lot bigger than me using bad form and partial reps... i dont know why it bothers you so much

YouTube - Ronnie Coleman - RELENTLESS - EZ Curl 21's

coleman doing some partials. pretty fast reps too. he's quick on the negative... so go tell ronnie he's doing something wrong lol

 

[rickyboy36]

I say that loose form is acceptable on the positive part of the motion,but is not acceptable on the negative part.By swinging(cheating) on the positive part of the motion,it permits you to use heavier weight on the negative part.The negative part is what makes the muscle grow more.I also agree with mule that partials(x reps) have their place as well.Again,it permits you to use heavy weight for more reps on that muscle part.Partials isolate the muscle part in question which then makes your body use up less energy and therefore permits you to do more reps on that particurlar body part. But of course,loose form would not be acceptable if the positive motion of your rep was the main intention of you program..

 

[sarcoplasm]

i use good form because i fear an injury. but, i see guys a hell of a lot bigger than me using bad form and partial reps... i dont know why it bothers you so much

YouTube - Ronnie Coleman - RELENTLESS - EZ Curl 21's

coleman doing some partials. pretty fast reps too. he's quick on the negative... so go tell ronnie he's doing something wrong lol

Is Ronnie who he is because of his training form or IN SPITE! of his form? Sometimes loking at a genetic superstar and doing what he does is the opposite of what you should do. They say that Ronnie was awesome the day he walked in the gym!

 

[mule]

Is Ronnie who he is because of his training form or IN SPITE! of his form? Sometimes loking at a genetic superstar and doing what he does is the opposite of what you should do. They say that Ronnie was awesome the day he walked in the gym!

the way he trains is very very important and leaves clues behind, like i said he is not the only one who does this,many pros and otherwise elite bodybuilders train like that.

another thing he does if you watch him in certain lifts is he double clutches where every rep he starts the rep but only moves the weight in a positive direction an inch or two then move sit back to the starting point then he does his full positive. you have to watch close to pick it up, he does this very quickly.



i would not recommend you do this when you start out though.

there is nothing wrong with how you saying to lift either , going for more muscle control and lfiting in a smoother tempo is also excellent. most people have very little actual muscle control of specific muscles and what your saying is a good way of doing it, lifting slighting slower also has its place as puts the muscle under tension longer , even long static holds have their place. there are many different ways of stimulating the muscle.

 

[mule]

I say that loose form is acceptable on the positive part of the motion,but is not acceptable on the negative part.By swinging(cheating) on the positive part of the motion,it permits you to use heavier weight on the negative part.The negative part is what makes the muscle grow more.I also agree with mule that partials(x reps) have their place as well.Again,it permits you to use heavy weight for more reps on that muscle part.Partials isolate the muscle part in question which then makes your body use up less energy and therefore permits you to do more reps on that particurlar body part. But of course,loose form would not be acceptable if the positive motion of your rep was the main intention of you program..

even on the negative there is place for it, mainly with athletes. most speed athletes purposely try and make the negative as close to a count of zero as possible , they actually try and make the negative faster by forcing in as quick as possible. if a bodybuilder saw what they were doing they would say that guys form is terrible but there is a method to it. that is why at the gym do not always assume when you see someone lifting a certain way that you think is wrong that the guy is a moron or that he doesn't know exactly what he is doing.

 

[sarcoplasm]

the way he trains is very very important and leaves clues behind, like i said he is not the only one who does this,many pros and otherwise elite bodybuilders train like that.



i would not recommend you do this when you start out though.

We may have to agree to disagree on some things then (but it's all good) I honestly think the champs don't strive for percision in their form. I think they look to get in there and get a certain amount of work on the muscle done. My contention is that almost all lifters would benefit from better form and execution especially in the negative portion as was said. The champs' genetics are maxed out so in a sense it dosen't matter what they do they are already there.

 

[Mr.G]

I know I am not well known on this board but I just watched a little of Dr Victor Prisk doing alternating dumbell curls in a video on the MD site and I ve got to say that his form is POOR!!! DON'T SOME PEOPLE REALIZE THAT BY SLOWING DOWN THE SPEED OF THE REP WILL PUT GREATER STRESS ON THE MUSCLE!!!!!! YOU CAN'T FREAKING SWIIIIING THE WEIGHT AND EXPECT THE MUSCLE TO GROW. YOU ACTUALLY BYPASS THE MUSCLE WHEN YOU DO THAT!! ALSO, ENOUGH WITH THESE BULLCRAP PARTIAL REPS WITH NO PAUSE AT THE BOTTOM AND PAUSE AT THE TOP OF THE MOVEMENT EITHER!!! THE MOVEMENT SHOULD BE SMOOTH!!! SURE YOU WANT TO TRAIN HEAVY BUT IT'S GOT TO BE RIGHT!!!! I DONT GET IT, ALSO YOU MUST LOWER THE WEIGHT SLOWLY MOST IMPORTANTLY!!!!! WHATS GOING ON HERE!!!!???
I feel a little better now flame me if you will.

I just watch the vid & he didn't use bad form. He is a little annoying though, I think he is trying to be funny because he is small.

 

[Mike Pulcinella]

There is no one right way to do anything.

 

[whiteknucks]

the looser the form, the more compound the exercise is. sometimes its needed...

 

[kid1dakota]

There is no one right way to do anything.

Mike we have been here discussed this already havent we? remember the Haley thread on this that went crazy? lol.So many ways to train with results speaking for themselves.

 

[jm425]

I know I am not well known on this board but I just watched a little of Dr Victor Prisk doing alternating dumbell curls in a video on the MD site and I ve got to say that his form is POOR!!! DON'T SOME PEOPLE REALIZE THAT BY SLOWING DOWN THE SPEED OF THE REP WILL PUT GREATER STRESS ON THE MUSCLE!!!!!! YOU CAN'T FREAKING SWIIIIING THE WEIGHT AND EXPECT THE MUSCLE TO GROW. YOU ACTUALLY BYPASS THE MUSCLE WHEN YOU DO THAT!! ALSO, ENOUGH WITH THESE BULLCRAP PARTIAL REPS WITH NO PAUSE AT THE BOTTOM AND PAUSE AT THE TOP OF THE MOVEMENT EITHER!!! THE MOVEMENT SHOULD BE SMOOTH!!! SURE YOU WANT TO TRAIN HEAVY BUT IT'S GOT TO BE RIGHT!!!! I DONT GET IT, ALSO YOU MUST LOWER THE WEIGHT SLOWLY MOST IMPORTANTLY!!!!! WHATS GOING ON HERE!!!!???
I feel a little better now flame me if you will.

Tell that to pros like Jay Cutler and Ronnie Coleman who are notorious for swinging the weight and cheating on reps. What you are saying is partially true. There are guys that grow better of strict form and lighter weight and guys that grow off cheating a little bit and swinging heavier weight. You can't just say that everyone should do exercises with absolute strict form. What about if you want to get to absolute failure but can't do so without cheating on the last few reps? Whereas I could've gotten better growth from doing a couple more reps(recruiting more muscle fiber), just because according to you, I have to stop repping is a bit absurd if you ask me. I've done it both ways and I've still managed to put on a good deal of muscle.

 

[mule]

We may have to agree to disagree on some things then (but it's all good) I honestly think the champs don't strive for percision in their form. I think they look to get in there and get a certain amount of work on the muscle done. My contention is that almost all lifters would benefit from better form and execution especially in the negative portion as was said. The champs' genetics are maxed out so in a sense it dosen't matter what they do they are already there.

One of my favourite lifters of all times is Serge Nubret and he lifts exactly like how your advocating, a little slower, real smooth, great form, concentrating for feel ect.. but i am saying both ways definitely work

just for you to look into another point of view, read some of these. these are chad waterbury articles. on rep speed he is exactly your opposite , he feels you should always lift as fast as possible and keep your sets under 15 seconds long. the same way you hate fast reps , he hates slow reps and long eccentrics. he also gives plenty and plenty of very good reasons. i am not so dogmatic either way as i think both ways can work very well and this is proven that their are great physiques doing both. some people depending even on their personality really lean one way or the other. read these , you might think a bit different when your done

TMUSCLE.com | Maximum Recruitment Training - Part 1

TMUSCLE.com | Maximum Recruitment Training - Part 2

TMUSCLE.com | Secret to Motor Unit Recruitment

 

[LATS]

there is a give and take here.. the looser form if kept in the proper groove allows more weight/overload as long as body english does not take the stress off the targeted muscle.. the downside is that it also taxes the joints, ligaments ect too.. one bad rep and a possible 6 month layoff.. ask ronnie, branch and a few others..
as i get older and more fragile (kiss my ass) i use more and more slower movements (not excessively slow) and just go for failure and intensity.. my shoulder cant handle anything else.. so if ya want longevity i suggest keeping the form tight and just be intense..

 

[mule]

there is a give and take here.. the looser form if kept in the proper groove allows more weight/overload as long as body english does not take the stress off the targeted muscle.. the downside is that it also taxes the joints, ligaments ect too.. one bad rep and a possible 6 month layoff.. ask ronnie, branch and a few others..
as i get older and more fragile (kiss my ass) i use more and more slower movements (not excessively slow) and just go for failure and intensity.. my shoulder cant handle anything else.. so if ya want longevity i suggest keeping the form tight and just be intense..

ya as far as injury vs results it is a risk vs reward scenario for sure