Ester weights

[nothuman]

Sounds like a basic topic, but I came across a Mike Arnold post from a while ago with the following,

"Many falsely believe that shorter esters are "stronger" because they contain more drug per mg, but this is actually false. Research shows that longer esters provide a greater increase in protein synthess, per mg, whether it be test, nandrolone, or tren.

I don't remember the exact numbers now, but one study demonstrated this with testosterone, when a 200 mg injection of test cyp increased protein synthesis somewhere around 270%, while an equivalent dose of test prop increased protein syntheis about 190%. Similar studies have been done over the decades, with researchers coming to the same conclusions each time."

I have always thought short esters like prop were stronger than longer esters like enanthate and cyp. I have also never seen the research that he speaks of. What does everyone think?

 

[TrinityD]

The reason is actually blatantly obvious.

Longer esters compound higher mg's over time .
Ex: By week 8 , 500mg of Test E will trump 500mg of Test P.

Prop doesn't have a half-life that is long enough to deliver more and more mg's that overlap. Meanwhile,enanthate/cyp/undeclyn/decanoate all have the potential to deliver many more milligrams of the compound that then they were supposed to deliver (if you wait long enough).

If somebody was taking 750mg Test E, I would say they would need around 950-1,000 test prop to match the same effects once we wait for enanthate to reach it's peak.

It's only in the earlier weeks that propionate/phenylpropionate/acetate will be more powerful.

The fact that the shorter esters deliver more mg is insignificant when comparing the two. Once you wait long enough, the longer esters compounding effect will deliver higher amounts of the medication than shorter esters.

If somebody wants proof, try 250test E/day for 10 weeks and compare it to 250test P/day for 10 weeks. I'll put my money on the enanthate.

 

[Baseline]

I thought this was common sense? ANY drug ester that keeps your blood levels up for the longest amount of time is going to have the most significant effects/results. Period!

-Baseline

 

[nothuman]

I thought this was common sense? ANY drug ester that keeps your blood levels up for the longest amount of time is going to have the most significant effects/results. Period!



-Baseline

No. If you google around, EVERYONE thinks 500mg prop is stronger than 500mg enanthate/cyp. Literally everyone, which is why I find this interesting.

 

[tkav1980]

No. If you google around, EVERYONE thinks 500mg prop is stronger than 500mg enanthate/cyp. Literally everyone, which is why I find this interesting.

Thats cause common sense isn't so common. Personally I always liked a slow build up from 200 mg up with long esthers. it made more sense to me to increase at plateaus and let the drug build up to its highest blood levels and plateau again. I think its a cheaper way to go too.

 

[nothuman]

Thats cause common sense isn't so common. Personally I always liked a slow build up from 200 mg up with long esthers. it made more sense to me to increase at plateaus and let the drug build up to its highest blood levels and plateau again. I think its a cheaper way to go too.

True, but there are a million charts saying you get more actual testosterone with faster esters. It now makes sense after reading Trinity's explanation of it though.

 

[TrinityD]

The only exception is Suspension ester.
Take 250 suspension a day vs 250 enanthate and suspension will give you a run for your money. LOL.

Ps sorry for all the grammar errors. I used my phone

 

[Jizzmo]

The reason is actually blatantly obvious.

Longer esters compound higher mg's over time .
Ex: By week 8 , 500mg of Test E will trump 500mg of Test P.

Prop doesn't have a half-life that is long enough to deliver more and more mg's that overlap. Meanwhile,enanthate/cyp/undeclyn/decanoate all have the potential to deliver many more milligrams of the compound that then they were supposed to deliver (if you wait long enough).

umm what?
guys use your brain for once. an injection of 250mg test e does NOT yield more testosterone than a 250mg inject of test prop.
250mg is 250mg.
the propionate ester releases basically the FULL 250mg over 2-3 days
so to put that in an understandable context, you could say prop releases about 100mg per day for 2.5 days
the enathate ester releases basically the FULL 250mg over 5-6 days
so easily put enanthate releases 50mg per day for 5 days
250mg is 250mg
its the fucking same
of course LONGER esters yield HIGHER levels later on, but thats ONLY BECAUSE they yielded LOWER levels for the first couple weeks
in the end 250mg is 250mg
and the compounding effect is completely insignificant, because you need like 4 weeks to even REACH these peak levels, while with a short ester shit hits the fan after a few days

250mg is 250mg. (substracting ester weights ofc)

 

[snrose07]

umm what?
guys use your brain for once. an injection of 250mg test e does NOT yield more testosterone than a 250mg inject of test prop.
250mg is 250mg.
the propionate ester releases basically the FULL 250mg over 2-3 days
so to put that in an understandable context, you could say prop releases about 100mg per day for 2.5 days
the enathate ester releases basically the FULL 250mg over 5-6 days
so easily put enanthate releases 50mg per day for 5 days
250mg is 250mg
its the fucking same
of course LONGER esters yield HIGHER levels later on, but thats ONLY BECAUSE they yielded LOWER levels for the first couple weeks
in the end 250mg is 250mg
and the compounding effect is completely insignificant, because you need like 4 weeks to even REACH these peak levels, while with a short ester shit hits the fan after a few days

250mg is 250mg. (substracting ester weights ofc)

Of the 250mg dose not all is testosterone. That weight is a combination of the testosterone and the ester. So in 250mg Test cyp, 170mg is testosterone while 80mg is the ester weight. Test prop is 200mg testosterone and 50mg ester.

If you are injecting a long ester twice a week, over time a long ester will raise your serum levels of the hormone compared to long esters because of the half life. Long esters will continue to climb and yield a higher blood serum level of hormone over time.

 

[TrinityD]

umm what?
guys use your brain for once. an injection of 250mg test e does NOT yield more testosterone than a 250mg inject of test prop.
250mg is 250mg.
the propionate ester releases basically the FULL 250mg over 2-3 days
so to put that in an understandable context, you could say prop releases about 100mg per day for 2.5 days
the enathate ester releases basically the FULL 250mg over 5-6 days
so easily put enanthate releases 50mg per day for 5 days
250mg is 250mg
its the fucking same
of course LONGER esters yield HIGHER levels later on, but thats ONLY BECAUSE they yielded LOWER levels for the first couple weeks
in the end 250mg is 250mg
and the compounding effect is completely insignificant, because you need like 4 weeks to even REACH these peak levels, while with a short ester shit hits the fan after a few days

250mg is 250mg. (substracting ester weights ofc)

I'm sorry you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and should refrain from giving out information regarding this subject. I'm trying to be constructive and help you out here: stop typing about this subject because you're embarrassing yourself bro. I'm just going to be the first to say it. I promise there's a lot of people looking at your post right now probably chuckling because of how wrong your information is.

This is pharmacology 101... and you most likely haven't been exposed to the material yet.

 

[VNV]

If you compare dosing X mg prop vs X mg enan, using the same time between administrations, you will unequivocally have higher levels of test on the prop.

Hate to sound like an arrogant prick, but if you haven't studied pharmacodynamics or pharmacokinetics, you shouldn't really be talking.

Here's the data in the picture below. The blue line is prop. The red line is enanthate. Same dosage, same schedule. That is the amount of testosterone (after the ester has been cleaved) in your blood. Which line goes higher: the red or the blue?

 

[TrinityD]

You did the math wrong. Sorry.

 

[VNV]

You did the math wrong. Sorry.

All the data is there in plain sight. Tell me, Mr. pharmacology, what math is incorrect?

 

[VNV]

You did the math wrong. Sorry.

Since all the data is there to refer to, and we can all check the data/calculations ourselves, please refer to the column and cell numbers when you point out which values are calculated incorrectly.

 

[VNV]

You did the math wrong. Sorry.

By the way, this isn't just something I "whipped up" when I saw this thread; this spreadsheet was adapted from one created by a University professor for a lab assignment in graduate school. Feel free to check another pharmacokinetics calculator online. If you insist on continuing to lie and deny empirical evidence, I will do it myself.

 

[ECB]

Since all the data is there to refer to, and we can all check the data/calculations ourselves, please refer to the column and cell numbers when you point out which values are calculated incorrectly.

Can you run it again, same weekly test c dose but with eod dosing and one with it dosed at the half life(5.5 days) in one shot

Thanks

Ps would ed prop dosing make the peaks even higher?

 

[blacktoppete]

The only exception is Suspension ester.
Take 250 suspension a day vs 250 enanthate and suspension will give you a run for your money. LOL.

Ps sorry for all the grammar errors. I used my phone

With all the good info you share who cares about grammar. We get what your saying lol.

 

[VNV]

Can you run it again, same weekly test c dose but with eod dosing and one with it dosed at the half life(5.5 days) in one shot

Thanks

Ps would ed prop dosing make the peaks even higher?

You could play with the spreadsheet yourself @ **broken link removed**

 

[TrinityD]

Dude. You don't even have correct half lives.
Propionate 3.5days?
I mean shit we should all just switch to prop at this point.
The whole thing is wrong and I'll give you something more accurate when I get home. I'll repost after Christmas day, just remind me. I won't be at computer until then.
If your professor truly made this spreadsheet, he sucks at math .

No hate. We all got flaws.. I got plenty. It's best to admit them heh

 

[ECB]

Dude. You don't even have correct half lives.
Propionate 3.5days?
I mean shit we should all just switch to prop at this point.
The whole thing is wrong and I'll give you something more accurate when I get home. I'll repost after Christmas day, just remind me. I won't be at computer until then.
If your professor truly made this spreadsheet, he sucks at math .

No hate. We all got flaws.. I got plenty. It's best to admit them heh

Whats your proposed half lives? I've seen studies showing prop at 19hrs, 24hrs and I've seen posts up to 4.5 days.