Ester weights

[LK3]

there is a lot of mental masturbation going on here! omg!

first of all, in regards to E ester. it has a rapid peak that no one is taking into consideration on these pretty charts.

READ THIS!!!!!

ALL ESTERS DO NOT RELEASE IN A LINIER FASHION!!!!!!!

that is nice for graphs and all but what is going on inside your body is not a graph and is not linier.

different esters are metabolized differently and each individual has a unique response.

that said, te has a rapid peak in very short order upon inject, similar to tne.

trinity's theory dose make sense, in that as you have more test being released at different times from the ester there will be more tendancy for the test to overlap potentially increasing blood levels.

I think the realities of this have many variables, maybe too many to really judge and it would be individual. the same person would have to run te for 10 weeks and have blood checked at various times to see the actual test and free test levels, then they would have to repeat later with a different ester.

the problem with that might be that after running te for 10 weeks your body may have a different response to the next run, elevated shbg or whatever, many variables.

the timing of injections would also come into play here.

I don't think in regards to test there is a best thing. its not like you are gona use it 1 time and be done, this is a drug you are gone live on for what 10-20-50 years???

from my experience keeping the dose similar and changing esters can have a substantial impact on "feel". after running te for a few years, you might enjoy a switch to a different ester, at first and for a lil while that might feel like you are using more test even if you are using less, simply form the change.

so try each one, see what works for you in a given situation, this is very much a long run sort of thing.

 

[LK3]

Ummm I'm an ectomorph and never once said otherwise. I also never said short esters were more effective, I just asked about potency differences. I use them because I prefer faster results, less water retention, and they leave my system faster. I made this thread because the entire internet claims you get more mg from short esters, which leads most people to think they are more effective. Get off your high horse and quit thinking you're smarter than everyone else.

well that is true, mg for mg the shorter the ester the more actual test there is.

that is a simple and true statement.

how that translates into reality is a whole different thing.

 

[TrinityD]

t
trinity's theory dose make sense, in that as you have more test being released at different times from the ester there will be more tendancy for the test to overlap potentially increasing blood levels.

yeah this.
also Jizzmo, your graph was done wrong too.
lol all these graphs and they're all wrong.

prop will return to baseline very quick where as enanthate will remain elevated for a while, gradually tapering down. since enanthate remains at that "elevated" point for a while, as soon as you administer more enanthate, you are building on top of the pyramid. you are building more and more testosterone on top of the elevated amount because it is gradually tapering down. there is time for this to take place since the ester is longer.

prop on the other hand, you don't have as much window of opportunity to build on. the testosterone is dropping back to baseline too fast. as a result, even if you inject everyday, it will not come back superior.

this is one of several reasons. you can argue all you want. i will pay anybody $100 to take 250mg Test E/day versus 250mg Test P/day for 10 weeks and tell me which one comes back better. if enanthate was better(which it will be), well.....i guess you learned something new instead of arguing with people who know what they're talking about

 

[Jizzmo]

yeah this.
also Jizzmo, your graph was done wrong too.
lol all these graphs and they're all wrong.

yeah right
everyone is wrong but you are right.
thats funny because everyone except you has something to back their stuff up

 

[TrinityD]

yeah when i have time(and its not xmas), i will go ahead and post proper graphs. by the way, propionate's half life is not 3 days. it is closer to 2 days.
enanthate's half life is closer to 7 days, not 5.

 

[TrinityD]

first of all, in regards to E ester. it has a rapid peak that no one is taking into consideration on these pretty charts.

this is also true. enanthate and cypionate will both have a large peak in the first 24-48 hours. the fact that these guys don't realize this is a testament in itself. it's pretty clear why all these people are so confused....

 

[Jizzmo]

yeah when i have time(and its not xmas), i will go ahead and post proper graphs. by the way, propionate's half life is not 3 days. it is closer to 2 days.
enanthate's half life is closer to 7 days, not 5.

this is also true. enanthate and cypionate will both have a large peak in the first 24-48 hours. the fact that these guys don't realize this is a testament in itself. it's pretty clear why all these people are so confused....

that doesnt change the point at all
testosterone enanthate peaks much earlier by the way.
Comparative pharmacokinetics of testosterone enanthate and testoste... - PubMed - NCBI

 

[TrinityD]

you can find a lot of different pubmed studies that will all show different peak times. this has to do with everybody's genetics(album,shbg,cytochrome p450 enzyme liver metabolism,etc). i certainly believe that in some people it could peak in 8-24 hours though. that's great.

i want you to reread what I wrote a few posts above regarding test P dropping to baseline much faster than enanthate... think about it carefully. take a piece of paper and a pen and see if you can just draw basic crude sketches of what would happen to the hormone if you compounded it over and over again between the two esters.....

also, peak time certainly does change things. it means all the graphs you are posting are extremely stupid and worthless.how can you say "it's irrelevant". /facepalm . merryxmas, im logging off for the day.

 

[Mr.Priapus]

Truthfully I've always been rather confused about this and have simply ended up doing what feels good for me. While there may be more compound per mg in a short ester I can honestly say I feel a world of difference when taking TrenA vs TrenE, for example. With ACE I get virtually no sides except for some elevation in BP, and with Enth my BP is very high, and I get all the common miserable sides. All this at comparatively the same MG's/wk and the same source. So there's definitely something meaningful in there.

 

[Jizzmo]

you can find a lot of different pubmed studies that will all show different peak times. this has to do with everybody's genetics(album,shbg,cytochrome p450 enzyme liver metabolism,etc). i certainly believe that in some people it could peak in 8-24 hours though. that's great.

i want you to reread what I wrote a few posts above regarding test P dropping to baseline much faster than enanthate... think about it carefully. take a piece of paper and a pen and see if you can just draw basic crude sketches of what would happen to the hormone if you compounded it over and over again between the two esters.....

also, peak time certainly does change things. it means all the graphs you are posting are extremely stupid and worthless.how can you say "it's irrelevant". /facepalm . merryxmas, im logging off for the day.

it is about how the amount shot in a SINGLE INJECTION drops down to baseline, not the TOTAL amount of hormone
OBVIOUSLY the total amount of hormone NEVER drops to baseline, however the testosterone released from A SINGLE SHOT of prop is basically OUT of your system after 4 days.

jesus, stop pretending you know everything. its just extremely annoying and makes you look like a grade A broscientist since you have no proof WHATSOEVER, you just claim to be the smartest one around all the time.

 

[Baseline]

That doesn't prove anything..lol Maybe you should come up with more accurate analogies to articulate a point.

It isn't a "theory". You are in-fact getting more active hormone per 100mg of a short ester. The problem with this discussions is there are multiple things going on, that people are mashing into one debate. Ester weight, and peak blood concentration.

You are looking dumber and dumber by the second.

Oh and Merry Christmas.. lol

Why are you even arguing with me! Have you read my post you idiot? Re read my post , i have been sayimg you get more mg/ml with shorter esters. I stated what you just said in my previous posts. Apparently your reading comprehension is sub par because i stated all of this already?

Merry Christmas buddy! LOL


-Baseline

 

[Baseline]

well that is true, mg for mg the shorter the ester the more actual test there is.

that is a simple and true statement.

how that translates into reality is a whole different thing.

Thats what i have been saying this whole time! You get more mg/ml because of the shorter ester but real world it doesnt translate. Im not even going to get into how different carrier oils effect ester release as well because these so called VETs that are newbies won't even comprehend how this works. LK3 i know you know this and that is why i am mentioning it to you but honestly, to each their own. Let them do whatever. Let them pin TNE everyday for all Icare.


-Baseline

 

[nothuman]

Thats what i have been saying this whole time! You get more mg/ml because of the shorter ester but real world it doesnt translate. Im not even going to get into how different carrier oils effect ester release as well because these so called VETs that are newbies won't even comprehend how this works. LK3 i know you know this and that is why i am mentioning it to you but honestly, to each their own. Let them do whatever. Let them pin TNE everyday for all Icare.


-Baseline

No one wants to read your posts because you can't make any without being a condescending prick. Maybe if you left the name calling and personal attacks out of it, as well as false insecurity of thinking anyone is disagreeing with you, we would actually read the rest of your posts.

 

[Baseline]

No one wants to read your posts because you can't make any without being a condescending prick. Maybe if you left the name calling and personal attacks out of it, as well as false insecurity of thinking anyone is disagreeing with you, we would actually read the rest of your posts.

Im sorry but i act like a condescending prick when so called "VETS" ask newbie questions. People agree with me because im correct. I dont think people are disagreeing with me and have no insecurities. Your the ectomorph brotha not me.Im done going back and forth about this? Especially with you because im allergic to ignorant people. Do yourself a favor and dont reply because i could seriously care less.

Merry Christmas buddy!


-Baseline

 

[TrinityD]

ok let's just all be friends and ignore the bs that was posted by everybody
merry xmas all

 

[raw33man]

I don't give a fuck, I get much better results with shorter esters.... now come and tell me about science and shit, give me numbers or what, short esters do me much better high or low mg, so I do that

 

[ECB]

Why are you even arguing with me! Have you read my post you idiot? Re read my post , i have been sayimg you get more mg/ml with shorter esters. I stated what you just said in my previous posts. Apparently your reading comprehension is sub par because i stated all of this already?

Merry Christmas buddy! LOL


-Baseline

I asked that question because his theory was utilizing more mg/ml from short or no easters.

Obviously your reading comprehension is non existent. I'm arguing that you said it was his "theory" it isn't a theory you neanderthal lol it's a fact. Secondly your argument for why "pros" don't solely run short/no esters was ridiculous.

Listen if you're trying to make a point, type what you mean. No one can understand you when you misuse words, or make stupid analogies to prove a point that have so many issues it totally negates your intended point.

You have a rudimentary understanding of pharmacology and pharmacokinetics at best, but you're sitting here like you're an expert. Lol

 

[LK3]

yeah this.
also Jizzmo, your graph was done wrong too.
lol all these graphs and they're all wrong.

prop will return to baseline very quick where as enanthate will remain elevated for a while, gradually tapering down. since enanthate remains at that "elevated" point for a while, as soon as you administer more enanthate, you are building on top of the pyramid. you are building more and more testosterone on top of the elevated amount because it is gradually tapering down. there is time for this to take place since the ester is longer.

prop on the other hand, you don't have as much window of opportunity to build on. the testosterone is dropping back to baseline too fast. as a result, even if you inject everyday, it will not come back superior.

this is one of several reasons. you can argue all you want. i will pay anybody $100 to take 250mg Test E/day versus 250mg Test P/day for 10 weeks and tell me which one comes back better. if enanthate was better(which it will be), well.....i guess you learned something new instead of arguing with people who know what they're talking about

yes, I understand where you are going with this and you are correct about the overlap. the longer your ester the more you get.

I think there was something done on sust about this...

showing how after a number of week ( idk 10, 20 whatever ) that it yielded higher blood levels compared to whatever singe ester they used when if you just go by ester weights it wouldn't.

I don't understand all the name calling, if you just read a little more then these internet steroid profiles all of this is pretty clear.

 

[LK3]

Thats what i have been saying this whole time! You get more mg/ml because of the shorter ester but real world it doesnt translate. Im not even going to get into how different carrier oils effect ester release as well because these so called VETs that are newbies won't even comprehend how this works. LK3 i know you know this and that is why i am mentioning it to you but honestly, to each their own. Let them do whatever. Let them pin TNE everyday for all Icare.


-Baseline

aside form all that the other thing to consider is length of time on.

even if you are using tne, run that for a year and stop, in one day your test levels will not have fallen. it will prob take a month or more for them to go back to whatever your "normal" is, even if only running 200-300mg wk.

they might not be at there peak for the entire time but sure as shit they will be elevated for a while.

 

[Mr.gains]

Sounds like a basic topic, but I came across a Mike Arnold post from a while ago with the following,



"Many falsely believe that shorter esters are "stronger" because they contain more drug per mg, but this is actually false. Research shows that longer esters provide a greater increase in protein synthess, per mg, whether it be test, nandrolone, or tren.



I don't remember the exact numbers now, but one study demonstrated this with testosterone, when a 200 mg injection of test cyp increased protein synthesis somewhere around 270%, while an equivalent dose of test prop increased protein syntheis about 190%. Similar studies have been done over the decades, with researchers coming to the same conclusions each time."



I have always thought short esters like prop were stronger than longer esters like enanthate and cyp. I have also never seen the research that he speaks of. What does everyone think?

AUC – area under the curve is what you need to be concerned about. The curve is generated from time versus free testosterone base.

My two cents


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