Even JP not going to failure anymore...

[LATS]

Most people who claim to train to failure actually are training 1 to 2 reps in reserve.. you see it every day.. how many videos do you see where the guy says he goes to failure yet you can tell he had a few more left.. when I owned my gyms I saw it constantly.. people saying they go to failure and are 2 rir.. this is the exact reason I tell to go to failure.. Best case scenario is they are at 1 to 2 rir.. but if you tell that same person to go to 1 or 2 rir they are now actually 3 to 4 rir. . So.. its just safer to say " go to failure" unless we are dealing with someone who is accustomed to actual failure.. either way if the weights are progressing upward and they have their recuperation game tied up they will gain..

 

[alfresco]

Most people who claim to train to failure actually are training 1 to 2 reps in reserve.. you see it every day.. how many videos do you see where the guy says he goes to failure yet you can tell he had a few more left.. when I owned my gyms I saw it constantly.. people saying they go to failure and are 2 rir.. this is the exact reason I tell to go to failure.. Best case scenario is they are at 1 to 2 rir.. but if you tell that same person to go to 1 or 2 rir they are now actually 3 to 4 rir. . So.. its just safer to say " go to failure" unless we are dealing with someone who is accustomed to actual failure.. either way if the weights are progressing upward and they have their recuperation game tied up they will gain..

I remember once when I was asked to spot a guy, he said he would get would get a triple. I said ok. (Rare. I hardly, if ever, spot when asked . . . I just ask what a spot is and they leave me alone.). So he barely does two, the third being a leap of faith, his face the color of a stop light and I know he has more in the tank but his eyes, the size of dinner plate are screaming help! So I do the opposite, back off and say two more. He knows he gonna get choked out, perhaps even die if he doesn’t do at least one more. He does two more, then chases me around the gym calling every name in the book, then thanks me for his pr and he never asked me to spot him again. Priceless. Oh the powers of the mind.

 

[qbkilla]

Ill still take a few breaths and contemplate it. If need be on belt squats I can pull myself out of the hole.

I saw a video of a dude getting stuck on that belt squat a few days ago and can't unsee it. I think i stopped at 9 today when I wanted to push for 10. That video of a guy stuck under the belt cost me a rep lol

 

[massephase]

I saw a video of a dude getting stuck on that belt squat a few days ago and can't unsee it. I think i stopped at 9 today when I wanted to push for 10. That video of a guy stuck under the belt cost me a rep lol

Making exercises failsafe is so important for performance. I have built some really weird setups to make sure I can fail safely on leg machines and it is a big psychological shift.

 

[massephase]

I assume you dont have to load too much more weight on it because the first set to failure (or close) already "steals" you some strength for the second set?

yes exactly. The second set on leg press is 1-2 plates per side more.

 

[specter]

I remember once when I was asked to spot a guy, he said he would get would get a triple. I said ok. (Rare. I hardly, if ever, spot when asked . . . I just ask what a spot is and they leave me alone.). So he barely does two, the third being a leap of faith, his face the color of a stop light and I know he has more in the tank but his eyes, the size of dinner plate are screaming help! So I do the opposite, back off and say two more. He knows he gonna get choked out, perhaps even die if he doesn’t do at least one more. He does two more, then chases me around the gym calling every name in the book, then thanks me for his pr and he never asked me to spot him again. Priceless. Oh the powers of the mind.

Did this to one of my friends, we go 25 years back to school so i know him well, he asked me to spot him on bench and by watching him train i knew he had alot more in the tank, so he says im hopin for 5 reps and then pull to rack, so he does his 5 reps and was waiting for me to rack, i told him 2 more reps, so he bitches a sec and does 2 more and then we push out one more really tough rep where i help the last inch before rack.. he goes "i had no idea i could do that"..

 

[qbkilla]

Most people who claim to train to failure actually are training 1 to 2 reps in reserve.. you see it every day.. how many videos do you see where the guy says he goes to failure yet you can tell he had a few more left.. when I owned my gyms I saw it constantly.. people saying they go to failure and are 2 rir.. this is the exact reason I tell to go to failure.. Best case scenario is they are at 1 to 2 rir.. but if you tell that same person to go to 1 or 2 rir they are now actually 3 to 4 rir. . So.. its just safer to say " go to failure" unless we are dealing with someone who is accustomed to actual failure.. either way if the weights are progressing upward and they have their recuperation game tied up they will gain..

100% agree. The "science " approach completely ignores the real world like you described...it is flawed logic imo. The studies they do to my knowledge are on what people here would describe as novices so 3 or 4 rir may cut it where a serious trainee who is past beginner gains,,,simply "lifting weights " and not training hard may cut it.

 

[Cerberus777]

Failure to me has always been. Go till I can't. Take a few breaths and get one more if can do it safely.

 

[BALDNAZI]

I honestly don’t know how to train any other way. If I didn’t go to failure it must’ve been a warmup set or something. Maybe I’ve been doing it all wrong but it’s the only way I know

 

[LATS]

I honestly don’t know how to train any other way. If I didn’t go to failure it must’ve been a warmup set or something. Maybe I’ve been doing it all wrong but it’s the only way I know

Yeah.. I have tried the 1 rir etc and for some reason i just continue until I tank..

 

[BALDNAZI]

Yeah.. I have tried the 1 rir etc and for some reason i just continue until I tank..

It’s in our nature. I never shy away from hard work, and going to failure is work. I just happen to love it. If I didn’t have a life I’d be in the gym all day until I dropped. Addiction? Possibly

 

[Mufasa123]

Nothing special inside the body/muscles/cells happens at concentric failure. The Mike Mentzer binary "flip of the switch" to growth is not reality and is total fabricated fantasy (sexy but falsely premised logic). All fibers were recruited long before the failure rep. CNS rate coding is high as they are falling in/out and insufficient to perform another. Arguably slightly more fatigue and slightly greater chance of injury due to lower coordination if really grinding at the last rep.

No magic that's it. I have a training plan. I may not be able to do another rep on a given set. I may have more in tank. There is no magic switch so it does not matter and I do not care. It isn't involved in my planning for progression or execution of said plan when I train.

This paradigm of failure being magic or calling it intensity has fucked up stuff for decades now. Then again Arthur Jones commercialized and made weight training less intimidating to the masses (nearly killing off Olympic weightlifting in this country). It is however very useful for simplisticly quantifying progression - I did 7 reps before I couldn't do another and this time I did 9 so I'm going on the right direction and progressing. Gets everyone through the circuit of machines fast, without waiting too long, no real complexity in planning, and low volume so out of gym quickly (nice business model for selling Nautilus equipment lines too).

 

[qbkilla]

I honestly don’t know how to train any other way. If I didn’t go to failure it must’ve been a warmup set or something. Maybe I’ve been doing it all wrong but it’s the only way I know

Im also noticing alot of these "influencers" are starting to encourage people not to weigh food or track calories. Apparently weighting food is too "mentally stressful " just like training to failure is "too fatiguing." God forbid someone actually has their shit together and puts in the work and dots the I's and crosses the T's. Im also seeing alot about the "minimum effective dose" to cause hypertrophy and them saying "busy dads, you can still get great gains only training 2x a week." Im starting to think they want to appeal to the laziest people on earth who are looking to do the bare minimum who really don't embrace hard work. Makes sense as it gets them clicks and fills their pockets.

 

[Cerberus777]

It’s in our nature. I never shy away from hard work, and going to failure is work. I just happen to love it. If I didn’t have a life I’d be in the gym all day until I dropped. Addiction? Possibly

Same here. If the bar can move im not done. If the muscle can handle more than 5-8 work sets I didn't go hard enough. I wouldn't do it any other way

 

[Mufasa123]

Im also noticing alot of these "influencers" are starting to encourage people not to weigh food or track calories. Apparently weighting food is too "mentally stressful " just like training to failure is "too fatiguing." God forbid someone actually has their shit together and puts in the work and dots the I's and crosses the T's. Im also seeing alot about the "minimum effective dose" to cause hypertrophy and them saying "busy dads, you can still get great gains only training 2x a week." Im starting to think they want to appeal to the laziest people on earth who are looking to do the bare minimum who really don't embrace hard work. Makes sense as it gets them clicks and fills their pockets.

I'm thinking this is marketing to a lower and more common 'common denominator'.

Guys who don't regularly go to the gym...hell doing it 2x a week consistently is a metamorphic change.

People who eat whatever food and however much they want, sure making healthier food choice selections will go a long way.

Lots of New Years resolution types out there who will likely fail regardless but stand a marginally better chance of sticking with things that are easier. Definitely not catering to your avg ProMuscle member.

 

[Josefein421]

His workout yesterday (maybe 2 days ago) had multiple work sets of 2 and that was it. I forget the exercise. Like I said earlier I love the guy but he's going down the Mentzer route of absolute obsession with a method.

Joints aside I still dont see how he can keep his nervous system fresh to fire like that every day. I think that and things like recoverability are the type of genetics we always overlook when having the discussion. Impressive for sure.

 

[madg]

Damn …

I could never do so little reps , no matter the load it doesnt feel like im training

 

[Flex500]

Here is JP’s workout from a couple days ago as an example. He bounces around a lot with his splits but currently doing upper / quads / hamstrings + glutes / rest then repeat

 

[Mufasa123]

Here is JP’s workout from a couple days ago as an example. He bounces around a lot with his splits but currently doing upper / quads / hamstrings + glutes / rest then repeat

View attachment 245134

Can someone clue me into what this indicates? Using Lat machine as an example 3 sets X 5 X 5 X 5 reps? I'm used to seeing sets X reps and somehow there are two other numerical variables in there? If this rep speed or cadence or time between reps? Also some exercises have only 1 extra variable (rear delt cable for instance) versus 2?

Anyway as an added point, sets are just groups of reps mostly for convenience. They really don't mean a ton. It's about total mechanical work ie total reps a muscle is exposed to (with load being a factor to work of course). When someone says low rep sets are bad for hypertrophy but good for strength, there is an assumption that the sets are near maximal for a given rep range - ie you can't do enough mechanical work/total reps with that heavy load to be a good hypertrophy stimulus but handling that load will be good for neuromuscular system. Pick the weight/load you can do 3x10 with (30 total reps). Now do 10 sets of 3 reps with that same weight (30 total reps again), obviously you won't need a ton of time between the sets and it's a pain in the ass (ie why we do clusters of reps called sets with lighter sub-max loads to reduce PITA factor) BUT mechanical work is identical. Actually if those 3x10 and 10x3 took you 10 mins to complete, there is very little difference - maybe marginally on metabolic/sarcosplasmic levels and even then with total time constant it's far far less than most would think, likely near zero. Granted some people don't care to train that way or they really love training to failure and enjoy the mental side - all good, you live once so enjoy it, but no difference at the muscle or stimulus to it.

 

[MajinBoo]

His workout yesterday (maybe 2 days ago) had multiple work sets of 2 and that was it. I forget the exercise. Like I said earlier I love the guy but he's going down the Mentzer route of absolute obsession with a method.

Joints aside I still dont see how he can keep his nervous system fresh to fire like that every day. I think that and things like recoverability are the type of genetics we always overlook when having the discussion. Impressive for sure.

Wait.. You opened this thread to applaude his "new way of training" without knowing how it looked like. And now you realized the way he trains is even worst than before... congrats