EXCELLENT CASE STUDY OF 4 BODYBUILDERS USING STEROIDS FOR MANY YEARS

[CryptoJB163]

Agreed man, mc Donald’s I’m sure over the long haul is worse than someone who does gear (and watches their bloodwork)

 

[maldorf]

how many fat ppl and kids do you see?
being obeesse is quite socially acceptable and we are generally encoraged to be open minded and nice to ppl who choose to abuse food.

why do we demonize ppl who even choose to use other stuff?
choosing some illegal compounds over legal compounds is actually smarter if considering health.

either way this study isnt much of a study.

there was a great video on understand reseach that i cant find with the new board. it should be required listening. lol

Over eating and becoming a fat slob is unhealthy and will hasten your demise, just as will taking boat loads of steroids. They are both bad. I never said anything to contradict that. Taking the steroids is certainly more dangerous though than eating like crap and is more likely to lead to an early death than is getting fat. The fat epidemic is much more common though and leads to more death because it is widespread. One involves eating food/drink and the other involved injecting man made chemicals into yourself. A bit of a difference there. There is no use in going down this road with you. You have your mind made up that using steroids isn't as unhealthy as it is being made out to be. Its your life, do what you want.

 

[nihilixm]

Do people really restrain and have perfect health diets if they are on roids? Note health, not bbing diet as these aren't the same. Also so many bbers will cram junk to get the calories. Eating clean isn't the most efficient way to eat for size ask swiper or any other real big guy behind the scenes. Every aspect of getting as big as possible is unhealthy. Who lives the longest? Twink 5' asian guys that live on seaweed soy and rice. The at least i don't eat maccas thing is just a coping mechanism.

It's definitely an unhealthy habit but unfortunately addictive and one that many people's egos are tied to. It is whst it is. I doubt many people will change what they are doing this thread will just give them more anxiety and raise their bp.

 

[Bio]

This seems more like an observational report and not a study. The authors are pointing out 4 individuals that had severe complications from high doses of AAS, Clenbuterol, insulin and GH. Don't get me wrong, I'm not tying to discount this. There's good information here on what high dose, prolonged AAS and ancillaries can do.

Take Patient #3 For Example

- Dbol (Oral) - 1,200mg a week - over 171mg a day for 12 months
- Winstrol (Inj) - 500mg a week - over 71mg a day for 12 months
- Testosterone (Inj) - 4,500mg a week - the equivalent of approximately 643mg of Test a day for 12 months

Patient #1 was using a lot of oral steroids. Dbol (Oral) 750mg a week - over 107mg of a day for 12 months. Add in 7 more orals for varying periods along high dose Clen, insulin, GH and it's a recipe for disaster.

I would hope most PM members know better than to use oral steroids for such prolonged periods as well as 4,500mg of Test for a year, which actually means years, plural, as one 12 month period rolls into the next. Again, this is still a teaching tool but these individuals were extreme in duration and/or dose of AAS and ancillaries.

 

[qbkilla]

I think the problem is that most guys can be a lean 200 lbs at 6 foot tall and be natural. It's when you go on the PEDS that you get up higher. I think you'd have a tough time finding guys that are only 200 lbs 6 foot tall and juiced to the gills. I myself am 6 foot and I got up to a fairly solid 215 lbs natural. I'm nothing special. Some guys are that big before they hardly touch a weight, I've seen the type playing football in college.

This is one thing I disagree on. I have seen guys 180,200 who look jacked. Then I have seen guys 230 carrying more lean bodyweight that look horrid, even when ripped. I feel like the boston Lloyd approach is horrible health wise and horrible for looks. Guys can grow lean, they don't need to do this massing, 5000 calories, and bulk up and get fat and distended to gain muscle, this is where they have problems. Sure they diet down and appear ripped as in dry, but they still have a shit ton of fat and water in their organs,

I think the problem is that most guys can be a lean 200 lbs at 6 foot tall and be natural. It's when you go on the PEDS that you get up higher. I think you'd have a tough time finding guys that are only 200 lbs 6 foot tall and juiced to the gills. I myself am 6 foot and I got up to a fairly solid 215 lbs natural. I'm nothing special. Some guys are that big before they hardly touch a weight, I've seen the type playing football in college.

I disagree on this. A 200lb guy, with a 32 inch waist, ripped, is not achievable natural for most people unless they have a large frame that will make them look bad regardless. Picture elite MMA athletes, NFL players, these guys have better physiques than 99% of bodybuilders who weigh 30-40lbs more. I think at a certain point guys aren't even gaining muscle, its just synthol, visceral fat, abdominal distention and water. Picture boston Lloyd and Dave Palumbo, so much weight from the lower chest to the waist line just jammed in there, the constipated look. And it takes away from the illusion of being "jacked". No one can look jacked when they look pregnant. I don't think its AAS abuse at all that causes all that abdominal weight, Its probably the over eating, over doing it in the offseason, spin, and possibly gh. Although I feel like if diet is controlled that GH will not have a disastrous effect on the abdominal area.

Another thing to add to my earlier post, In addition to all the guys having health problems having a high bodyweight, I feel they are typically all guys who hold. ton of visceral fat/water/food/muscle, whatever in the adbomen. I believe its been shown that abdominal fat is harder on the hart than say love handle fat. These huge guys are just so distended that has to kill the heart, as opposed to having weight in the desirable areas like arms, legs, delts, hell even ass (rather have weight there even as a guy than looking pregnant).

 

[maldorf]

Of course extremes are more dangerous, but for some individuals it doesn't take nearly as much to prove fatal or cause serious harm. I liked this study because it did have some quantified data for the patients and goes into some detail about what they were using etc. It also presents the complications they had. We have had members on our forum here pass on from using what I think was lower doses than this. In some ways, these guys were lucky.

 

[qbkilla]

are you guys really seeing alot of fat people now a days? im just not. but what I am seeing is people who look like they are wasting away, when they see me eat a big plate of food they are in shock "good god thats bigger than a chobani how can you handle that food and not get sick"

I almost feel like people have no metabolism and don't eat and struggle to even eat meat. maybe its just me, but I don't see people over eating I see people who are so mentally messed up and "depressed" and on medication they don't want to eat and can't eat

if you eat 12 oz of meat infant of people anymore and some cake after they act like you just ate a cow. but then they have no problem guzzling 9 beers. but I honestly find it sad how many people just can't eat and can't fathom another human eating a large plate of food lol

 

[maldorf]

are you guys really seeing alot of fat people now a days? im just not. but what I am seeing is people who look like they are wasting away, when they see me eat a big plate of food they are in shock "good god thats bigger than a chobani how can you handle that food and not get sick"

I almost feel like people have no metabolism and don't eat and struggle to even eat meat. maybe its just me, but I don't see people over eating I see people who are so mentally messed up and "depressed" and on medication they don't want to eat and can't eat

if you eat 12 oz of meat infant of people anymore and some cake after they act like you just ate a cow. but then they have no problem guzzling 9 beers. but I honestly find it sad how many people just can't eat and can't fathom another human eating a large plate of food lol

That must be because of where you live. I live in the Midwest and most of the folks out in public I see are overweight at best. Not a lot of morbidly obese people, but most are overweight enough that it draws some attention.

As far as serving sizes, meal size at restaurants in the US are really large compared to other countries I think. I heard the meals in Italy were smaller, but I didn't really know how much so until I travelled there on vacation. Even meals with many courses turned out to be smaller overall since the portion sizes were much smaller.

 

[qbkilla]

This could be true, I live near a major city in a very liberal area (think vegan, social justice) and work in the mental health field (where the majority of employees have greater mental issues than the patients sadly). So picture people so medicated and disillusioned and mental, it probably affects their apetite. But ive also noticed the type of females I date, just don't eat. My ex who was a normal girl with. good family and job, could barley at a chobani or a chic fillet shake. I could literally eat 15 chobani and 5 milkshakes in 20 minutes before I start to feel full.

 

[romo]

Artice on T nation

https://www.t-nation.com/pharma/big-dead-bodybuilders

Has a list of 31 notable bodybuilders that all died young. There are more. Youll see the majority are from heart attack or heart failure.

Interesting also that several died right after or right before a show. Prep will just add to the problem.

 

[LK3]

Over eating and becoming a fat slob is unhealthy and will hasten your demise, just as will taking boat loads of steroids. They are both bad. I never said anything to contradict that. Taking the steroids is certainly more dangerous though than eating like crap and is more likely to lead to an early death than is getting fat. The fat epidemic is much more common though and leads to more death because it is widespread. One involves eating food/drink and the other involved injecting man made chemicals into yourself. A bit of a difference there. There is no use in going down this road with you. You have your mind made up that using steroids isn't as unhealthy as it is being made out to be. Its your life, do what you want.

no dude, im saying this is not a study.

thats really the big issue.
its sad that people interpret this as scientific as its not.

 

[maldorf]

no dude, im saying this is not a study.

thats really the big issue.
its sad that people interpret this as scientific as its not.

It is a study! It is known as a "case study". I should know as I have been a high school bio/chem teacher and taken classes at the graduate level. It doesnt carry nearly as much weight as a double blind controlled study, but it doesnt mean that it is invalid. There are still things to be learned. Case studies such as these are still published in scientific journals all of the time, and I think this one was. With a problem like anabolic steroid use it isn't ethical for researchers to prescribe bodybuilding doses to test subjects, it just cant happen. So what they are left with is studying real world situations like these. There will never be a double blind controlled experiment run on humans with this. I suppose they could try it on chimps or other animals, but as far as I know it hasn't been done. Another problem is that the bodybuilding population using steroids is fairly small and really doesn't justify spending millions of dollars on studies when there are more important things to look at.

Are you telling me that these cases are just crazy outliers, and that bodybuilders never have these kind of problems?!

 

[maldorf]

Guidelines to the writing of case studies

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[LK3]

It is a study! It is known as a "case study". I should know as I have been a high school bio/chem teacher and taken classes at the graduate level. It doesnt carry nearly as much weight as a double blind controlled study, but it doesnt mean that it is invalid. There are still things to be learned. Case studies such as these are still published in scientific journals all of the time, and I think this one was. With a problem like anabolic steroid use it isn't ethical for researchers to prescribe bodybuilding doses to test subjects, it just cant happen. So what they are left with is studying real world situations like these. There will never be a double blind controlled experiment run on humans with this. I suppose they could try it on chimps or other animals, but as far as I know it hasn't been done. Another problem is that the bodybuilding population using steroids is fairly small and really doesn't justify spending millions of dollars on studies when there are more important things to look at.

Are you telling me that these cases are just crazy outliers, and that bodybuilders never have these kind of problems?!

hey bud, watch this video, it will explain all about why this is not a good study and will help you to better understand the information you read in the future, relaly everyone should watch this as very important in the internet age to understand where your information might be coming from and what motives may be behind it.

i wont make any wise ass comments as this is important to understand, hope its gets through.
good luck!

 

[maldorf]

I don't need any studies to inform me of the relative dangers of steroids because I have real world experience with it and paid dearly. Others can chose to watch that video.

 

[LK3]

I don't need any studies to inform me of the relative dangers of steroids because I have real world experience with it and paid dearly. Others can chose to watch that video.

aha!
now we have thruth, personal bias!

you act like debby downer and parrot the bad potentials cus it bit you in the ass.

ignorance, and you dont want to learn.
thats usually the problem by and large with the anti drug crowd, becuase you didnt do it right no one else should have fun. thats corny bro

try the video, i thought better of you.

 

[maldorf]

aha!
now we have thruth, personal bias!

you act like debby downer and parrot the bad potentials cus it bit you in the ass.

ignorance, and you dont want to learn.
thats usually the problem by and large with the anti drug crowd, becuase you didnt do it right no one else should have fun. thats corny bro

try the video, i thought better of you.

Enough is enough already, lol. You started your own thread about studies. Spend time on that. Im well educated on these things and dont need your help. Many members of this board found this study interesting and enjoyed reading it. Just because it presents some bad scenarios regarding steroid use it doesnt make it biased bullshit. These are events that really happend, and they have happened to members on here like me. Some of us have died. Have some respect please.

 

[LK3]

so what if they happened?
ppl do sumb shit all the time, all we should really be learning from them is what not to do.

the study is biased and you are helping to perpatute ignorance by your stance. you are choosing not to be educated because of your own personal biassis. like acting like a lil kid, like my way is this way and thats that and dont tell me no becuase i got hurt...

maybe you wouldnt have had your issues if someone had been more straight with you,or were in an environment that fostered truth.

beign ignorant doesnt help anything

 

[Bio]

Enough is enough already, lol. You started your own thread about studies. Spend time on that. Im well educated on these things and dont need your help. Many members of this board found this study interesting and enjoyed reading it. Just because it presents some bad scenarios regarding steroid use it doesnt make it biased bullshit. These are events that really happend, and they have happened to members on here like me. Some of us have died. Have some respect please.

Maldorf I like you and LK3 but you're being defensive. He didn't say it was "biased bullshit" he just stated that it's not a study. Please take the time to watch the video. The lady in it is an AAS researcher. She talks about what makes a real study vs what doesn't. There is always something more for all of us to learn.

 

[maldorf]

Bump for an interesting thread.