Experts wanted.

[superbeast22]

So a while ago I discussed my cycle with a few respected members here, and I did the following:

week 1-12 test cyp 500mg/week
week 1-12 deca 500mg/week
week 1-4 dbol 30mg/day
week 1-16 nolvadex 20mg/day
week 14-17 clomid 50mg/day (300mg first day)

week 1-3 was great, then i started losing sex drive like crazy, but was gaining still so didnt care... then by week 5 my gains STOPPED. I couldnt figure it out, unless its the prog. buildup from running nolva with deca...

anyhow. 3 months later I didnt have ANY sex drive and lost all my gains from the cycle, so a friend told me i probly have estrogen buildup... so get on adex .5 a day, so i did, then i shot myself with 500mg of test cyp... 2 weeks later, still felt like crap... went to get blood work, test level came back at 1704.

I know a lot more than I did before, and I am realizing that what I did was stupid, and that deca stays in ya for what.. 13 months? i am taking cabergoline trying to kill the prog (been on it for maybe 2 weeks and off the adex for 4 days...)

do any of you pros think i have too little estrogen? too much prog? gear was definatly NOT bunk.

 

[mrsoul]

without knowing his stats and previous cycles, how can you say this is overkill dad? 500 mg test is not overkill, running the deca at the same dose as the test is not that smart and 30 mg dbol is relatively sane. certainly not trying to argue with you dad, i just think this cycle does not seem that out of line.

 

[tkav1980]

the best reply i can give you is this. if you cant grow off of 250mg of test a week, even grow alittle bit, you shouldnt use AAS in the first place. regardelss of cycle history, if you want less sides, then use less chemicals or at least lower dosages. you know im feeling like im begging to bang my head against a wall with this. i know dad doesnt agree with me on the length of time your on but one thing we do agree on is that you should use the least possible dose to get results. if i were you the first thing i would do is get on some anti-e's, and drop your dose to 250 a week. then get your pct lined up and come off, continue pct for a good 8 weeks or until hpt is back to normal. then put on 10 lbs without and AAS. after all that is said and done and you want to do another cycle, start off with 250 of test a week. if you were able to put on another 10 lbs naturally without the AAS you werent ready to use them in the first place. and when you do go back on a low dose, see if you can get results with that dose first before upping it or adding other chemicals to the mix. and be see if you can get results i mean exhaust every diet and training option out there to put on mass before the dose goes up even 50 mg a week. just my 2 cc

 

[Dad]

the best reply i can give you is this. if you cant grow off of 250mg of test a week, even grow alittle bit, you shouldnt use AAS in the first place. regardelss of cycle history, if you want less sides, then use less chemicals or at least lower dosages. you know im feeling like im begging to bang my head against a wall with this. i know dad doesnt agree with me on the length of time your on but one thing we do agree on is that you should use the least possible dose to get results. if i were you the first thing i would do is get on some anti-e's, and drop your dose to 250 a week. then get your pct lined up and come off, continue pct for a good 8 weeks or until hpt is back to normal. then put on 10 lbs without and AAS. after all that is said and done and you want to do another cycle, start off with 250 of test a week. if you were able to put on another 10 lbs naturally without the AAS you werent ready to use them in the first place. and when you do go back on a low dose, see if you can get results with that dose first before upping it or adding other chemicals to the mix. and be see if you can get results i mean exhaust every diet and training option out there to put on mass before the dose goes up even 50 mg a week. just my 2 cc

I agree with everything yuo've said here, tkav!

 

[mrsoul]

Strictly speaking, yuo're right - we don't know stats, etc. However, I do know that many very good bodybuilders, who compete I might add, do not need these dosages to look good.

Several decades of experience has seemed to show that when people start pushing the dosages, they aren't getting results. This may, in the case of beginners, be from poor diet and training practices, but if a guys is on his third or more cycle, has been training hard and heavy for a few years, and is still, say, 5' 10" 180-210 lbs over 12% bodyfat, the odds are no amount of drug excess nor esoteric combination is going to do much.

i agree. some will not grow no matter what they use. but 500mg test is still a moderate dose in my opinion.

 

[superbeast22]

no previous cycle experiance, 180 lbs @ very low body fat... not sure %.

 

[mrsoul]

no previous cycle experiance, 180 lbs @ very low body fat... not sure %.

this was certainly a big first cycle then. i would follow the advice given, clean out, wait a while and start back a test only cycle.

 

[oldfella]

no previous cycle experiance, 180 lbs @ very low body fat... not sure %.

This is what I was waiting for.........cycle history or lack of. Blunt reply here. You charged at this like a bull at the gate. You overcooked the doses and then wondered why you got no where. Nopt only was this a waste of money but time and stress on your body as well. Only 180lbs and you bang in well over a gram of gear a week? You could not have done any research at all. You needed another 20ilbs of muscle on your frame naturally before you even considered AAS. Here is a classic case of putting the cart before the horse.

I have to agree with TKAV. Get your pct in order, drop the gear and either hire one of the trainers here at Pro Muscle with the money you would spend on AAS and make some serious gains. Phil Hernon is so good at this he would have you gaining all year with out touching a drop of juice. Give this some serious consideration my friend!

 

[superbeast22]

This is what I was waiting for.........cycle history or lack of. Blunt reply here. You charged at this like a bull at the gate. You overcooked the doses and then wondered why you got no where. Nopt only was this a waste of money but time and stress on your body as well. Only 180lbs and you bang in well over a gram of gear a week? You could not have done any research at all. You needed another 20ilbs of muscle on your frame naturally before you even considered AAS. Here is a classic case of putting the cart before the horse.

I have to agree with TKAV. Get your pct in order, drop the gear and either hire one of the trainers here at Pro Muscle with the money you would spend on AAS and make some serious gains. Phil Hernon is so good at this he would have you gaining all year with out touching a drop of juice. Give this some serious consideration my friend!

I dont mind the blunt reply bro, any honest reply with advice is better than someone going "your stupid".. I know I did something stupid. I didnt think that it would count as a gram a week as they were two different compounds but i get it now.. i did do research, infact, this cycle is recommended at g___99

I will be doing my pct perfectly and already have an ifbb pro doing my personal training when i am ready, which i gotta admit, is reallll cool!

 

[finny]

Now, I have to agree that you started too agressive.

But, come on guys. You almost make me believe that everyone should drop their AAS usage and go the natural way. Putting on 20lbs has never been easier - all he needs is hard work, guidance, and nutrition and he's on his way to 20lbs of muscle - even Phil cannot perform miracles.

If it were that easy, we would have a lot of guys with much, much better physiques than they are.

I would expect that someone that is tuned in as far as nutrition, supplements, and training would still need a couple of years to pack on that amount of muscle. Translate that into being natural. First, you can kiss your low bf good buy. Yes, guys can gain that much fairly quickly but they become fat at the same time. Otherwise, you're looking at few solid years.

Do we even know how old the guy is. If he's in his 20s, then yeah, it's easier. 30s, not as easy - etc.

 

[superbeast22]

22 bud

 

[pesty4077]

22 bud

My opinion, too young to start, however, 250mg of test with a real good diet, will give you great results. Remember, if you want to last in this sport, start out slow, and take the minmum dose for gains. I know, been there, done that. I am now 48, and still in excellant shape. Remember above all, don't jeopardize your health.

 

[oldfella]

Now, I have to agree that you started too agressive.

But, come on guys. You almost make me believe that everyone should drop their AAS usage and go the natural way. Putting on 20lbs has never been easier - all he needs is hard work, guidance, and nutrition and he's on his way to 20lbs of muscle - even Phil cannot perform miracles.

If it were that easy, we would have a lot of guys with much, much better physiques than they are.

I would expect that someone that is tuned in as far as nutrition, supplements, and training would still need a couple of years to pack on that amount of muscle. Translate that into being natural. First, you can kiss your low bf good buy. Yes, guys can gain that much fairly quickly but they become fat at the same time. Otherwise, you're looking at few solid years.

Do we even know how old the guy is. If he's in his 20s, then yeah, it's easier. 30s, not as easy - etc.

No not saying to go natty all the way, not at all. But I do believe you should explore your genetic limit for growth before you look to AAS for more gains. I don't recall saying that he could put on 20lbs of muscle in one year, you are correct it does take some time to do this, but patience and dedication will get you there. I disagree with the "going to get fat" in the process. No you do not have to. With the right diet and proper training protocols you can add lean mass without blowing out the waistline. Gaining muscle quickly means you will lose most of it just as quickly. Slow and steady progress is the approach to this. Once you hit your plateau then you start with a test only type of cycle, low dose and chart your progress. After a few cycles (years) you can then evaluate what you choose to do. If getting on stage is your goal then you look at modified or multi compound cylce choices with low to moderate doses. At least then you will have more knowledge of how your body will react to things. SB is now on the right track. Get a professional to help you if you are uncertain. But at 22 years old he has a ton of growing he can do naturally before hitting the juice! There just needs to be a pathway to follow with progression and also boundaries.