EXTREME Body Recomp

[bad rad]

This is similar to ALR's "Big Fat Bastard and Insulin Protocol." Worth a read for those interested in this as it explains why these type of protocols work.

 

[Iabadman]

This interesting ....I can remember all the way back to the early 90s with guys playing with insulin and keto .......but it was always fast ......like 2 ius throughout day ........I like the lantis idea .......but I am curious , You say you started at 5 ius a day every morning ? And then went up to 65 ius a day ? .....I have heard 50 can be fairly used fairly safe with gh if high enough and diet on point ......I understand the mechanics ......But how long are you bumping up 5 ius ? A week ? Til you hit 65? How do feel ? Are you checking Blood sugar or monitoring your health at all ? Or do you not care ? I respect you either way ....I judge no one and people should be free to make their own choices .....

I am just curious have you had to break the keto due to feeling hypo ? How is blood pressure and heart rate .........? Your method could save guys from having to do much or any cardio ........prob need some t 3 and 4 with all that gh ......and to get to 50 ius of lantis prob need at least 6 ius of gh or more ......but I don't know .......I actually think the cycle you recommend is very good ....toxic .....and a tad high for a guy competing under 250 imo .....I am huge fan of water based test ........I loved the old steris test suspension back in the day ....a half cc twice a day or cc 90 min before a workout was by far my favorite .....no bloat .....full looking though ....strong ...aggressive ....test suspension , anadrol , and those fina pellets jb1 mentioned .....for just a few weeks and I was as strong as anyone I ever saw over all ..........lol ........oh to be mid 20s again ...lol ........But How long are you running the lantis at the high dose or this cycle .....? I could see doing this 6 to 8 weeks two weeks from a show dropping gh and insulin ....and eq ........but running this more than 8 weeks ? Not smart and returns would not be worth it the longer you run this imo ........Maybe 2 times a yr you could play with this and reap some benefits without really shortening your life span too much ......and that would be tops ....insulin is called the aging hormone for reason .....that is why doing things like you are suggesting is much better than hammering yourself with long and short ....tons of carbs all the time is just not smart in long run .....Smart people see things past your nose .....look at things in pictures my friends .....looking for fast is not always best . Especially in bbing .....but awesome share ..... i respect your passion , honesty , and fearlessness ......that is sincere ......keep on keeping

 

[Phidias]

CG,

Understanding how your whole strategy is intimately linked to the total ABSENCE of carbs, how would, in your opinion, react your body metabolically wise, should you keep the exact same diet but add some carbs, even a low amount around your workout for example? Which would probably put you OUT of ketosis...

Do you think you'd start gaining bodyfat? Or you'd increase your Lantus dose to counteract this unwanted "side effect"?

Cause obviously growth will be much easier and faster with carbs... how many of them (and now of your dietary fats too!) will be stored in adipocytes, this is the crucial quetsion... of course...

In any cases, thank you for DARING to express your views and opinions without paying attention to the potential negativism it might spark. I'm following this with interest.

 

[Iabadman]

Great questions Phidias ...hope all is well truly [ hope you sharing the awesome love and sensitivity you are ] ..........I think you 'd prob have to enter a fast acting slin with those carbs or your sugars might feel off .....but who knows what I know ......I think carbs around workout once very lean is probably smart ....especially if looking to gain or even hold size during a prep ......certainly don't need them til sub 8 % imo .....and off season ...guy like them of course ......as they love to see the scale moving [ i have been guilty of it honestly ] ..But lots of carbs and slin ads lots off water ...especially along with high gh doses .....look all the guys today off season .....they aren't fat [ how could they be with what they run ?] But they are water buffaloes ...that can't be good for anyone and isn't real muscle or stage weight ...From all my years in this art ....guys get ten good years of pushing [ unless you are dexter ] hard ....most get less .....then body goes backwards ....drugs don't work ....body looks tired ....injuries ect ..[.think Jay or Ronnie even Wolf ...] most get less and some elite get more .........I have seen and known guys that juiced for 50 yrs .....I know an 80 yr old still cycling and looking 20 yrs younger ......if you don't drink , use recs , and manage your stress you can lift , use drugs through your life and they can be a great tool ......I 'd when you are younger push ....then if in 2-3 years of pushing you don't have great size ect.....scale back ...enjoy it for you and ride it out as long as you enjoy it and are healthy .....

CG ....loves pushing and learning ......I respect that .....I don't what he looks like and his health is his business although I wish him a long happy life .......I try to stay open ....I don't nearly as much as some guys here ....But I have witnessed and been around a lot ......you have to find balance and see being bigger is never going to make you happy for long ...It like they say , " no matter how hot a women is .....someone is tired of fucking her " ......As long as you think more or better is going to make you happy you will chase and chase ........

Only recently , And I am about to be 48 on tues .have I liked training since my arrest in 96 .....Once I really dropped wanting anything or thinking something else was better did I just enjoy training or eating clean ........now I just care for my body , learn , and enjoy the moments that come instead living in bigger , better , more .....lol ........everyone is different and will see things as do .....I get it .......I hope some of the young guys see what I am saying and see for themselves so they can spare the money , and their health in the long run .


Back to the subject .......I think CG 's share has potential ....used wisely and not for long periods .......most on some gh should some light insulin imo .....lantis could be safer and be used on the low carb diets I advocate ......but once under a real 8 % you start to get flat most likely as your metabolism would be racing as he mentioned .....so like you mentioned ...carbs around workout could be brought in the last 3 or 4 weeks with the right sups .....and you would most likely look full and tight ........but of course I am no expert either .....

 

[juggy38]

Doesn’t sound too crazy. Except 50iu lol

Years ago over at dat be true we were doing recomps with insulin and zero carb. The best way was to train mid morning.

M1: carbs/protein
Workout
Pwo whey isolate+2iu humulin R
M3: chicken/fishoil
M4:egg whites/fishoil
M5: whey isolate+2iu humilin R
M6: chicken/efas

55-60g protein per meal, you’d lean up crazy fast. Breakfast carb numbers depended on body part and lifting volume. You didn’t want to have much glycogen left over after lifting

 

[concreteguy]

CG,

Understanding how your whole strategy is intimately linked to the total ABSENCE of carbs, how would, in your opinion, react your body metabolically wise, should you keep the exact same diet but add some carbs, even a low amount around your workout for example? Which would probably put you OUT of ketosis...

Answer: I started with Dan Duchaines Body Opus Diet, witch is a keto diet for 5 1/2 days with the weekends being a carb fest. It brought on head aches of biblical proportions. The brain getting hit with the sugar over load was painful on a level that's hard to describe. But I did it in search of muscle. The gains were OK but paled in comparison to this.

BTW: It takes way more than a "Ape shit" carb meal to take a body that's truly in a state of ketosis out of ketosis.

The carbs your talking about taking around training would do nothing in the form of energy. Ketosis is allowing your body to burn fat and use ATP for energy. As long as you have fat stores you have endless energy.



Do you think you'd start gaining bodyfat? Or you'd increase your Lantus dose to counteract this unwanted "side effect"?

]Answer: In ketosis, Protein is your carbohydrate. I know your body can't convert fats to carbs but it can convert proteins. When I hit my bodies natural abilities to offset the lanus at 65iu's I found that I could continue to increase the dose by adding in a whey shakes with 20iu of EAA's and 20iu glutamine. This IMO allowed my metabolism to use these far superior protein sources to continue to offset the now elevated lantus amounts. Protein=carbs.

Cause obviously growth will be much easier and faster with carbs... how many of them (and now of your dietary fats too!) will be stored in adipocytes, this is the crucial quetsion... of course...

Answer: If I understand your question, adding regular carbs and being in a state of ketosis is unobtainable. If that was your end goal to add the carbs I would move the diet to just zero fat carbs and fish with oil based vitamins.

In any cases, thank you for DARING to express your views and opinions without paying attention to the potential negativism it might spark. I'm following this with interest.

I appreciate you saying that. The last time I posted about Lantus I got my head kicked in. Now four months later Matt Porter posts the same exact thing (but he's driving around in a car) and not a single word or call out. Go figure. I get it. I'm not Matt Porter and don't know shit.

The things I wonder about are, how does my body see the converted carbs? Is it some how more compatible with carrying the proteins home into the cells? I could write a small book with just the questions I have about this.

 

[concreteguy]

This interesting ....I can remember all the way back to the early 90s with guys playing with insulin and keto .......but it was always fast ......like 2 ius throughout day ........I like the lantis idea .......but I am curious , You say you started at 5 ius a day every morning ? And then went up to 65 ius a day ? .....I have heard 50 can be fairly used fairly safe with gh if high enough and diet on point ......I understand the mechanics ......But how long are you bumping up 5 ius ? A week ? Til you hit 65? How do feel ? Are you checking Blood sugar or monitoring your health at all ? Or do you not care ? I respect you either way ....I judge no one and people should be free to make their own choices .....

I am just curious have you had to break the keto due to feeling hypo ? How is blood pressure and heart rate .........? Your method could save guys from having to do much or any cardio ........prob need some t 3 and 4 with all that gh ......and to get to 50 ius of lantis prob need at least 6 ius of gh or more ......but I don't know .......I actually think the cycle you recommend is very good ....toxic .....and a tad high for a guy competing under 250 imo .....I am huge fan of water based test ........I loved the old steris test suspension back in the day ....a half cc twice a day or cc 90 min before a workout was by far my favorite .....no bloat .....full looking though ....strong ...aggressive ....test suspension , anadrol , and those fina pellets jb1 mentioned .....for just a few weeks and I was as strong as anyone I ever saw over all ..........lol ........oh to be mid 20s again ...lol ........But How long are you running the lantis at the high dose or this cycle .....? I could see doing this 6 to 8 weeks two weeks from a show dropping gh and insulin ....and eq ........but running this more than 8 weeks ? Not smart and returns would not be worth it the longer you run this imo ........Maybe 2 times a yr you could play with this and reap some benefits without really shortening your life span too much ......and that would be tops ....insulin is called the aging hormone for reason .....that is why doing things like you are suggesting is much better than hammering yourself with long and short ....tons of carbs all the time is just not smart in long run .....Smart people see things past your nose .....look at things in pictures my friends .....looking for fast is not always best . Especially in bbing .....but awesome share ..... i respect your passion , honesty , and fearlessness ......that is sincere ......keep on keeping

Thank you for sharing your views and the kind words friend.

BadMan, there's a specific reason for the gear I recommend. RamboStalone asked me this this morning. But for the record: any gear that works good ON YOU will be just fine with this protocal.

Water based Test is high estrogen.
Why high estrogen???

Testosterone Suspension:
160mlg of testosterone suspension will create a great deal of estrogen since it originates as a non-esterfied AAS. Estrogen up-regulates the muscle cells glucose transporters called GLUT-4 and increases androgen receptor sensitivity. This also means that the administered testosterone is free or unbound from its inactivating protein SHBG. A great deal of the hormone entering the circulatory system is quickly bound, though not before a serious degree of anabolism should take place. But there is a portion left bound and in reserve.
(Insulin) inhibited SHBG should be freed up resulting in a synergistic anabolic response. By freeing the remaining testosterone from SHBG an increase in androgenic activity should take place. Since SHBG is also estrogen binding the protein excretion of estrogens should be dramatically accelerated. This results in rapid estrogen clearing and an increase in GH. Most of you guys now GH and insulin must both be present in the liver to produce IGF-1.

BTW: The gear and amounts I recommend is what I believe is necessary for extreme growth in this chemical environment. Feel free to add or subtract as you see fit. As far as the "water based"? I think it's a necessity for optimum results.>>>

 

[concreteguy]

Great questions Phidias ...hope all is well truly [ hope you sharing the awesome love and sensitivity you are ] ..........I think you 'd prob have to enter a fast acting slin with those carbs or your sugars might feel off .....but who knows what I know ......I think carbs around workout once very lean is probably smart ....especially if looking to gain or even hold size during a prep ......certainly don't need them til sub 8 % imo .....and off season ...guy like them of course ......as they love to see the scale moving [ i have been guilty of it honestly ] ..But lots of carbs and slin ads lots off water ...especially along with high gh doses .....look all the guys today off season .....they aren't fat [ how could they be with what they run ?] But they are water buffaloes ...that can't be good for anyone and isn't real muscle or stage weight ...From all my years in this art ....guys get ten good years of pushing [ unless you are dexter ] hard ....most get less .....then body goes backwards ....drugs don't work ....body looks tired ....injuries ect ..[.think Jay or Ronnie even Wolf ...] most get less and some elite get more .........I have seen and known guys that juiced for 50 yrs .....I know an 80 yr old still cycling and looking 20 yrs younger ......if you don't drink , use recs , and manage your stress you can lift , use drugs through your life and they can be a great tool ......I 'd when you are younger push ....then if in 2-3 years of pushing you don't have great size ect.....scale back ...enjoy it for you and ride it out as long as you enjoy it and are healthy .....

CG ....loves pushing and learning ......I respect that .....I don't what he looks like and his health is his business although I wish him a long happy life .......I try to stay open ....I don't nearly as much as some guys here ....But I have witnessed and been around a lot ......you have to find balance and see being bigger is never going to make you happy for long ...It like they say , " no matter how hot a women is .....someone is tired of fucking her " ......As long as you think more or better is going to make you happy you will chase and chase ........

Only recently , And I am about to be 48 on tues .have I liked training since my arrest in 96 .....Once I really dropped wanting anything or thinking something else was better did I just enjoy training or eating clean ........now I just care for my body , learn , and enjoy the moments that come instead living in bigger , better , more .....lol ........everyone is different and will see things as do .....I get it .......I hope some of the young guys see what I am saying and see for themselves so they can spare the money , and their health in the long run .


Back to the subject .......I think CG 's share has potential ....used wisely and not for long periods .......most on some gh should some light insulin imo .....lantis could be safer and be used on the low carb diets I advocate ......but once under a real 8 % you start to get flat most likely as your metabolism would be racing as he mentioned .....so like you mentioned ...carbs around workout could be brought in the last 3 or 4 weeks with the right sups .....and you would most likely look full and tight ........but of course I am no expert either .....

BadMan, this is a picture from last weekend. Bone cold no pump. Age 57.

 

[Anubis]

I find this fascinating, thank you for sharing cg. Did you ever face any hypo issues using this protocol as lantus increased?

 

[concreteguy]

No hypo issues in the sense you would expect. Just a strange feeling in my head and a lack of concentration. This was remedied with a whey shake with 20grams of EAA's and 20 grams of Glutamine. It took about twenty minutes to work.

 

[warlock]

Doesn’t sound too crazy. Except 50iu lol

Years ago over at dat be true we were doing recomps with insulin and zero carb. The best way was to train mid morning.

M1: carbs/protein
Workout
Pwo whey isolate+2iu humulin R
M3: chicken/fishoil
M4:egg whites/fishoil
M5: whey isolate+2iu humilin R
M6: chicken/efas

55-60g protein per meal, you’d lean up crazy fast. Breakfast carb numbers depended on body part and lifting volume. You didn’t want to have much glycogen left over after lifting

Looks interesting. Approximately how many carbs per body part?

Only fish oil for fats?

 

[Anubis]

No hypo issues in the sense you would expect. Just a strange feeling in my head and a lack of concentration. This was remedied with a whey shake with 20grams of EAA's and 20 grams of Glutamine. It took about twenty minutes to work.

interesting how often did you have that occur and was that at any specific dosage or as you peaked dose? have you had others try this protocol? and if so did they notice an absence of traditional hypo signs as well?

 

[juggy38]

Looks interesting. Approximately how many carbs per body part?

Only fish oil for fats?

Ok so I would train 3 way DC style. 1 rest pause set, then 1-2 sets of a different exercise 12-15 reps. 2 RP sets for back.

Chest/shoulder/tri
Legs
Back/bi

Push day got about 50g carbs. That was plenty
Legs got round 75g and back got 75g or so

Intra drink had some glutamine and citruline with EAAs so I was fine.

Larger guys, or guys not wanting to drop so fast would add some monosatursted fats.

I loved it because you could lean down quick and halt catabolism with the large protein intake and insulin/GH while being in quite a big deficit. There’s a little MCt oil in some of the meals.

 

[concreteguy]

interesting how often did you have that occur and was that at any specific dosage or as you peaked dose? have you had others try this protocol? and if so did they notice an absence of traditional hypo signs as well?

Over 60iu I had to add it to all four of my daily shakes.

 

[Mini Truck]

INSULIN – BODYBUILDING MADNESS! Jacked to An Early Grave?

Written by Steve Blechman
07 February 2018

INSULIN - BODYBUILDING MADNESS!
Jacked to An Early Grave?

I am really annoyed over the popularity of the use of insulin by bodybuilders and recommended by some of the “so-called” gurus as an anabolic performance enhancer! Insulin has become a drug of choice in many bodybuilders’ anabolic stacks for increasing muscle size. Yes, insulin is an anabolic hormone, but it also enhances fat storage! Insulin is a potentially dangerous and overrated bodybuilding drug! Why take exogenous insulin injections, which has many potential side effects? Why not just improve your own body’s insulin sensitivity and function through diet, training and safer drugs such as metformin! Studies show that metformin has cardiovascular and anti-cancer benefits. The FDA is close to approving metformin as the first anti-aging drug. Please do not start metformin without first speaking to your physician. Too many so-called gurus these days are prescribing medicine without a license, which is not recommended. Please, when it comes to drugs, this is serious business! Be proactive. See your physician and get a checkup on a regular basis. As a bodybuilder, it is important to get the proper blood work to avoid potential health issues.

At the Sunday morning Arnold symposium, held during the 2015 Arnold Classic, Arnold voiced his displeasure with the physique trend among bodybuilders. Arnold made a statement about some of today’s bodybuilders that they have “bottled-shaped bodies” instead of the classic V-shape. Arnold went on to say, “… Stomachs sticking out … it doesn’t look right anymore.”

The cause of the swollen “big gut” in some bodybuilders has long been attributed to growth hormone excess (GH gut) which can cause organomegaly— enlargement of the intestines and other organs; and edema (water retention).

Some professional bodybuilders have experimented and abused insulin to promote mass gains. There are serious consequences that can occur from insulin abuse. Emergency rooms often deal with individuals who fail to eat properly, misdose their prescribed insulin or perhaps an interaction with another drug, resulting in severe hypoglycemia. Many suicide cases have been reported over the years where insulin was the primary vehicle for intentional suicide. When an overdose of insulin occurs, medical help is needed immediately— if left untreated, a patient could go into coma or die from the overdose.

Insulin enhances abdominal obesity and is the main culprit along with excess growth hormone in the so-called GH Belly, sometimes referred to as “The Bubble Gut” in some bodybuilders. In an interview published in Muscular Development, six-time-Mr. Olympia Dorian Yates noted his experience with growth hormone and insulin, commenting that while his growth hormone of 8 IUs/day did have a positive effect on his size and condition, as far insulin was concerned, “I got bigger than ever, but it wasn’t quality muscle and my midsection was distended.” In fact, Yates only used insulin one year during the off-season. He further stated, “For me, insulin had a negative overall impact on my physique. It kept me from getting into my usual condition that I pride myself on. Raw mass is not the same as quality muscle tissue. I got a bit bigger, but at the expense of my separation, crispness and clear muscle separation. I see that same lack of separation constantly today with the guys as well as distended abs.”

I am really pissed off that some of today’s so-called bodybuilding gurus continue to recommend insulin use as an anabolic drug! It has been the most single factor in bodybuilding that has hurt the quality and conditioning of physiques today compared to the bodybuilders of the ‘70s, ‘80s and ‘90s such as Arnold, Frank Zane, Shawn Ray, Flex Wheeler, Kevin Levrone and Lee Haney. My biggest concern is the health risks of exogenous insulin and abuse!! There is strong evidence that hyperinsulinemia increases the risk of cardiovascular disease and cancer!

A most recent study confirms that insulin therapy increases cardiovascular risk and mortality among those who have type 2 diabetes! This most recent large-scale meta-analysis, including large-scale outcome trials and patient registry studies, confirm strong dose associations for injected insulin with increased cardiovascular risk and worsened mortality! The majority of large observational studies clearly show that insulin causes weight gain, recurrent hypoglycemia and other potential adverse effects including hyperinsulinemia. This over insulin-zation with use of injected insulin enhances inflammation, atherosclerosis, hypertension, dyslipidemia (elevation of plasma cholesterol, triglycerides or both, or a low high-density lipoprotein level that contributes to the development of atherosclerosis), heart failure and arrhythmias. These findings strongly suggest that insulin therapy has a poor, short and long-term safety profile.

 

[Phidias]

Written by Steve Blechman
07 February 2018

INSULIN - BODYBUILDING MADNESS!
Jacked to An Early Grave?

MT... you're smarter than that, my friend... that post was absolutely unneeded.

We all take decisions and make choices based on personal history/criteria... let CG do his thing, it's not like he was a dumb kid with no clue of what he's doing.

He'll learn from it... and so will we all.

 

[UseButDontAbuse]

HI CC,

why don't you remove all the insulin and just do the same. See the differences, maybe you got leaner and don't lose muscle.

 

[juggy38]

Mini truck do you not use insulin on your guys?

 

[concreteguy]

HI CC,

why don't you remove all the insulin and just do the same. See the differences, maybe you got leaner and don't lose muscle.

You have lost point of the entire thread. I have plenty of experience doing Keto diets and the Opus diet which is a 5 on 2 off keto diet designed by Dan Duchain.

Insulin is the single most anabolic chem you can put in your body. The issues of torso fat and distention is always the "go to" argument for those with NO idea how to diet and whats required. In a simple to understand format I have eliminated that issue. Guys can use insulin for mass gains and gain ZERO fat as a byproduct of insulin use.

Funny thing and I have already brought this up in what turned out to be a huge thread. *Every single one of those Golden Era body builders would have used insulin and HGH if they new about it* Don't kid yourself. These guys had completely roofed there acts and brought everything they had to the Olympia. I can just see Franko Colombo and crowd saying "I could blow Arnold off the stage with mass but I'm not going to do that EVIL insulin." Completely ridiculous to even suggest.
Shit changes and so too did our sport of body building. Like anything else in life (((Too much of a good thing isn't good))) For Crist sakes, your all adults that don't need to be told this.

 

[Mini Truck]

Nope!

Being diabetic my entire life, I think I know more about insulin than just
about any internist or endo as it applies to athletic enhancement.

I know exactly how it could be used for this purpose and I haven't read
anything so far that is close to the truth. 100% BroScience!

Unless you are a top tier national level bodybuilder seeking his pro card
it is not necessary to build quality muscle.

Too much risk and not enough reward IMO.

But some guys will risk their health trying to live the dream.

-MT

Mini truck do you not use insulin on your guys?