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EXTREME Body Recomp

Nope!

Being diabetic my entire life, I think I know more about insulin than just
about any internist or endo as it applies to athletic enhancement.

I know exactly how it could be used for this purpose and I haven't read
anything so far that is close to the truth. 100% BroScience!

Unless you are a top tier national level bodybuilder seeking his pro card
it is not necessary to build quality muscle.

Too much risk and not enough reward IMO.

But some guys will risk their health trying to live the dream.

-MT

It's one thing to need insulin due to being diabetic and another for using it to assist in bodybuilding goals. A lot of that article posted above was complete nonsense. So what if people use it to commit suicide or if idiots don't know how to eat properly on slin. Yes some people will abuse things but so what they have that right. There is a reason why insulin and hgh are abused today in bodybuilding. Yes insulin is not needed at all but you could say that about any individual drug in bodybuilding. Insulin can still be used with great effect. Insulin can be run safely with common sense but sure CG's cycle is far from safe but so what it's his life and as Phidias stated he isn't some dumb kid who doesn't know what he is doing.

You are obviously just on this thread to stir shit as you do with all of CG's posts now. Plus none of this nonsense about some "guys will risk their health trying to live the dream." What a load of crap on a board like this full of guys who abuse themselves with alsorts of things. So all your clients are on 20mg test per day? I know some of your clients and have spoken doses with them many times. We all play with our health on here... some more than others but don't act most of your guys aren't the same and use drugs that can come with risks.

It's an open forum but don't ruin a perfectly good thread trying to stir shit with CG. If you're against insulin in bodybuilding start your own thread about it.
 
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I avoid CG's threads so you are talking shit about me posting on "all of
his posts."

I said nothing derogatory about CG.

Don't post when you've been drinking, you embarrassed yourself.

Plus like you said it is an open forum so I'll post what I want.

Stay out of anything I post, son.

-MT

Nonsense. You stated nothing bad about CG but you are obviously only posting because he posted this thread. I have seen you post like this to him for months. Have you ever seen me post anything to you ever... never. I couldn't care less but it's annoying seeing you try to ruin one of the better threads on here recently.

You don't embarass yourself. Fuck it that's getting deleted :eek::D I could have embarassed you then but not going to bother. Just do your thing :)
 
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Out of respect for PM and the long time members that had asked me questions I answered them. I guess this thread has run it's course here. If anyone has any interest in this or a multitude of other "advanced thinking anabolics" please visit us at AnaSci guys.

Thanks for your time, CG
 
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Out of respect for PM and the long time members that had asked me questions I answered them. I guess this thread has run it's course here. If anyone has any interest in this or a multitude of other "advanced thinking anabolics" please visit us at AnaSci guys.

Thanks for your time, CG

I saw your original post and agree. This post... well said... I shouldn't have got involved but it's annoying to see it in all your threads now. See you on Anasci.
 
INSULIN – BODYBUILDING MADNESS! Jacked to An Early Grave?



Written by Steve Blechman

07 February 2018



INSULIN - BODYBUILDING MADNESS!

Jacked to An Early Grave?



I am really annoyed over the popularity of the use of insulin by bodybuilders and recommended by some of the “so-called” gurus as an anabolic performance enhancer! Insulin has become a drug of choice in many bodybuilders’ anabolic stacks for increasing muscle size. Yes, insulin is an anabolic hormone, but it also enhances fat storage! Insulin is a potentially dangerous and overrated bodybuilding drug! Why take exogenous insulin injections, which has many potential side effects? Why not just improve your own body’s insulin sensitivity and function through diet, training and safer drugs such as metformin! Studies show that metformin has cardiovascular and anti-cancer benefits. The FDA is close to approving metformin as the first anti-aging drug. Please do not start metformin without first speaking to your physician. Too many so-called gurus these days are prescribing medicine without a license, which is not recommended. Please, when it comes to drugs, this is serious business! Be proactive. See your physician and get a checkup on a regular basis. As a bodybuilder, it is important to get the proper blood work to avoid potential health issues.



At the Sunday morning Arnold symposium, held during the 2015 Arnold Classic, Arnold voiced his displeasure with the physique trend among bodybuilders. Arnold made a statement about some of today’s bodybuilders that they have “bottled-shaped bodies” instead of the classic V-shape. Arnold went on to say, “… Stomachs sticking out … it doesn’t look right anymore.”



The cause of the swollen “big gut” in some bodybuilders has long been attributed to growth hormone excess (GH gut) which can cause organomegaly— enlargement of the intestines and other organs; and edema (water retention).



Some professional bodybuilders have experimented and abused insulin to promote mass gains. There are serious consequences that can occur from insulin abuse. Emergency rooms often deal with individuals who fail to eat properly, misdose their prescribed insulin or perhaps an interaction with another drug, resulting in severe hypoglycemia. Many suicide cases have been reported over the years where insulin was the primary vehicle for intentional suicide. When an overdose of insulin occurs, medical help is needed immediately— if left untreated, a patient could go into coma or die from the overdose.



Insulin enhances abdominal obesity and is the main culprit along with excess growth hormone in the so-called GH Belly, sometimes referred to as “The Bubble Gut” in some bodybuilders. In an interview published in Muscular Development, six-time-Mr. Olympia Dorian Yates noted his experience with growth hormone and insulin, commenting that while his growth hormone of 8 IUs/day did have a positive effect on his size and condition, as far insulin was concerned, “I got bigger than ever, but it wasn’t quality muscle and my midsection was distended.” In fact, Yates only used insulin one year during the off-season. He further stated, “For me, insulin had a negative overall impact on my physique. It kept me from getting into my usual condition that I pride myself on. Raw mass is not the same as quality muscle tissue. I got a bit bigger, but at the expense of my separation, crispness and clear muscle separation. I see that same lack of separation constantly today with the guys as well as distended abs.”



I am really pissed off that some of today’s so-called bodybuilding gurus continue to recommend insulin use as an anabolic drug! It has been the most single factor in bodybuilding that has hurt the quality and conditioning of physiques today compared to the bodybuilders of the ‘70s, ‘80s and ‘90s such as Arnold, Frank Zane, Shawn Ray, Flex Wheeler, Kevin Levrone and Lee Haney. My biggest concern is the health risks of exogenous insulin and abuse!! There is strong evidence that hyperinsulinemia increases the risk of cardiovascular disease and cancer!



A most recent study confirms that insulin therapy increases cardiovascular risk and mortality among those who have type 2 diabetes! This most recent large-scale meta-analysis, including large-scale outcome trials and patient registry studies, confirm strong dose associations for injected insulin with increased cardiovascular risk and worsened mortality! The majority of large observational studies clearly show that insulin causes weight gain, recurrent hypoglycemia and other potential adverse effects including hyperinsulinemia. This over insulin-zation with use of injected insulin enhances inflammation, atherosclerosis, hypertension, dyslipidemia (elevation of plasma cholesterol, triglycerides or both, or a low high-density lipoprotein level that contributes to the development of atherosclerosis), heart failure and arrhythmias. These findings strongly suggest that insulin therapy has a poor, short and long-term safety profile.



These studies are based on every day insulin users like my mother/uncle/cousin who do use insulin but eat poor food sources, unbalanced meals and rarely if ever exercise.

I can’t see that you can use them as evidenced BB n athletes who train twice daily at times , eat great n live well will suffer the same ill health.

I have discussed this with lectures and dieticians who would agree.

Yes I agree however it’s not needed by a lot who use.

Yes it has ruined ‘some’ physiques.

Fact is utilised correctly it’s not dangerous and very effective n if CC wants to experiment its abilities in different ways then so be it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I saw your original post and agree. This post... well said... I shouldn't have got involved but it's annoying to see it in all your threads now. See you on Anasci.



I agree. I’ve been a member of here a long time but lately it’s like kids in a school playground with some posters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
These studies are based on every day insulin users like my mother/uncle/cousin who do use insulin but eat poor food sources, unbalanced meals and rarely if ever exercise.

I can’t see that you can use them as evidenced BB n athletes who train twice daily at times , eat great n live well will suffer the same ill health.

I have discussed this with lectures and dieticians who would agree.

Yes I agree however it’s not needed by a lot who use.

Yes it has ruined ‘some’ physiques.

Fact is utilised correctly it’s not dangerous and very effective n if CC wants to experiment its abilities in different ways then so be it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My thoughts exactly. Just like with most things it can be used sensibly or stupidly. If a regular person uses insulin and is stupid it could be fatal. It has helped many physiques and has contributed to the downfall of many too. Now someone fully aware of it's effects and dangers and is prepared for those then it should be fine. This is basic stuff. What CG is doing is very different but it's not like he is walking around unaware of the possible risks.
 
I know exactly how it could be used for this purpose and I haven't read
anything so far that is close to the truth. 100% BroScience!


-MT

this thread would've been so much more better off if you came in here and just explained what you didn't think was right about this protocol. If this is way off base, tell us why...this is a discussion forum, lets bat this around...if someone is hell bent on using slin wouldn't you rather them use it correctly? It's not your job to hand hold adults I get that but you made the original post to hand hold them so why go half way, you're either in or you're out, help or don't. I also get you get paid to share your advice but you said you don't use slin for clients so this isn't divulging anything that paid clients get.
 
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this thread would've been so much more better off if you came in here and just explained what you didn't think was right about this protocol. If this is way off base, tell us why...this is a discussion forum, lets bat this around...if someone is hell bent on using slin wouldn't you rather them use it correctly? It's not your job to hand hold adults I get that but you made the original post to hand hold them so why go half way, you're either in or you're out, help or don't.



I imagine he keeps this for clients. Hence the comments lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I imagine he keeps this for clients. Hence the comments lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought about that right after I posted, and made the adjustment lol. we both went there immediately haha
 
Mini and CG have some history.
This is Concrete guys thread so Minitruck save your diggs and comments for another time and place.
 
using insulin to speed up ketosis has been done before. phidias talked bout doing it several years ago if i remember right... i guess this is bit different...

i guess this is just for the guys dead set on a ketosis diet? NOT bc its ideal. i like to base most of my diets and protocols on logic and cutting out a whole macro just doesnt seem like a good idea. better to manipulate that macro to your needs.

if your goal is to burn fat i think there r easier ways to do it without insulin. if your goal is to build muscle i think there is a better way to do it with insulin.

i am not sure if using insulin in a keto diet is best for fat loss or for mass gains... using it with carbs or doing something else for fatloss seems more logical. just talking it out...
-F2S
 
Out of respect for PM and the long time members that had asked me questions I answered them. I guess this thread has run it's course here.

It's the internet, CG... c'mon, by now you should have a thicker than thick skin, buddy :p... please don't give up on us here at PM who are absolutely UNBIASED (the vast majority of the board). :);)
 
using insulin to speed up ketosis has been done before. phidias talked bout doing it several years ago if i remember right... i guess this is bit different...

i guess this is just for the guys dead set on a ketosis diet? NOT bc its ideal. i like to base most of my diets and protocols on logic and cutting out a whole macro just doesnt seem like a good idea. better to manipulate that macro to your needs.

if your goal is to burn fat i think there r easier ways to do it without insulin. if your goal is to build muscle i think there is a better way to do it with insulin.

i am not sure if using insulin in a keto diet is best for fat loss or for mass gains... using it with carbs or doing something else for fatloss seems more logical. just talking it out...
-F2S

I tried it for a couple of weeks once, but with fast acting insulin injected multiple times during the day.

And I actually like keto diet, and prefer it without insulin for fat loss.
It will make a person piss out more ketones, but does this mean your burning more fat?
Need more science behind that I think.

All this talk about recomp, is probably more dependent on the drugs used rather than the specific diet.
As long as your consuming the right amounts...
 
using insulin to speed up ketosis has been done before. phidias talked bout doing it several years ago if i remember right... i guess this is bit different...

i guess this is just for the guys dead set on a ketosis diet? NOT bc its ideal. i like to base most of my diets and protocols on logic and cutting out a whole macro just doesnt seem like a good idea. better to manipulate that macro to your needs.

if your goal is to burn fat i think there r easier ways to do it without insulin. if your goal is to build muscle i think there is a better way to do it with insulin.

i am not sure if using insulin in a keto diet is best for fat loss or for mass gains... using it with carbs or doing something else for fatloss seems more logical. just talking it out...
-F2S

I came forward with this to present what I believe is a genuine method to grow into a show. This is a keto diet. But it's an extremely top heavy(high protein) version. It couldn't be much farther from your average keto diet. I'm not suggesting using the Lantus to accelerate the fat lose. The Lantus is to drive nutrients. IMO, this is a *synergistic* engine. When this is done correctly by an experienced individual it's safe and extremely anabolic.

That's all. I'm not looking to sell anything. I just wanted to deliver the message. There has been an age old question "can you gain muscle while losing weight going into prep?" No magic. Just some old dude with the where with all and balls to try it.
Where the hell would we all be if no one tried thinking out of the box?
 
These studies are based on every day insulin users like my mother/uncle/cousin who do use insulin but eat poor food sources, unbalanced meals and rarely if ever exercise.

I can’t see that you can use them as evidenced BB n athletes who train twice daily at times , eat great n live well will suffer the same ill health.

Bodybuilders are using more insulin than diabetics. They are also eating more calories and carbohydrates trying to grow muscularly.

Do what you want, but do not fall into denial.
 
Bodybuilders are using more insulin than diabetics. They are also eating more calories and carbohydrates trying to grow muscularly.



Do what you want, but do not fall into denial.



Everything you stayed is correct. I’m
In no denial as to why BB use insulin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Here’s a question.....what is the equivalent endogenous carbs needed to hit an exogenous equivalent of 3iu?

Say like is 75g carbs from sweet taters gonna bring insulin to the same level of 5iu humulin R?

Which one is more “unhealthy”?
 
Here’s a question.....what is the equivalent endogenous carbs needed to hit an exogenous equivalent of 3iu?

Say like is 75g carbs from sweet taters gonna bring insulin to the same level of 5iu humulin R?

That's actually THE MAIN QUESTION when it comes to slin use... and why what people get out of it is so different in terms of results... you have to find out what's optimal for yourself, cause there's definitely no set in stone answer to that question, individual insulin sensitivity varying immensely from one to another.

What we can agree on though, is that keeping upping and upping your carbs in order to secrete more endogenous slin is a recipee for disaster... your pancreas will hate you, and chances you end up fatter quick are high.
 
That's actually THE MAIN QUESTION when it comes to slin use... and why what people get out of it is so different in terms of results... you have to find out what's optimal for yourself, cause there's definitely no set in stone answer to that question, individual insulin sensitivity varying immensely from one to another.

What we can agree on though, is that keeping upping and upping your carbs in order to secrete more endogenous slin is a recipee for disaster... your pancreas will hate you, and chances you end up fatter quick are high.


And the biggest problem is that once you are sure you have it dialed in....it will change on you.

Both my parents are diabetic....I've seen it happen many times. My dad could eat "x" amount of certain food, take "y" amount of insulin...and measure blood glucose to see if he is in the range he wants to be in.

This could work well for a week and he wouldn't have to measure again....aside from the fact that the next week given the same conditions...his BG would change meaning he may have needed more or less insulin to achieve the same results as the previous weeks.

I assume that is why they prick their finger so much. I know that if I was in their position.....I would eat the same things consistently over and over in an effort to avoid always having to check where I was at if it were as simple as that.
 
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