Extreme Mental/Physical fatigue..Advice needed?

[bbminded]

hey everyone,

I am looking for some insight/advice/opinions in regards to some mental and physical fatigue issues i've been dealing with?

A little info that is needed to better understand my situation for more accurate feedback........
Throughout my early childhood and into my late 20's I always had issues in regard to being tired and lethargic, except when doing anything physical that elevated my heart rate and adrenaline(always played sports and worked out). I slept in every class from middle school, high school, and the short time i went to college.

For a long time, the blame was put on me with doctors assuming that I wasn't going to bed early enough or that i was sleeping in to late when i didnt have school. It didnt matter that I was going to bed on time and getting the right amount of hours of sleep because the doctors some how new better than me and just thought i was lying to them.

So, as my fatigue issue continued, the only other option apparently was to diagnose me as being depressed, anxious, add, etc., leading to years of many different cocktails of drugs! Nothing ever worked or helped. In fact many times things just got worse due to the side effects of the medications.

It wasnt until I was in my early 20's that i was prescribed the ADHD med., adderall.
It helped some in regards to helping me stay awake in situations where I would probably struggle to keep from nodding off. It seemed to lift my mood as well, which was the beginning of another negative issue. I would take more than I was supposed to at certain times because it made me feel more normal, sociable, happy etc. So of course every month i would end up running out early and have to go without them for several days.

By my mid twenties, I started to become more proactive about my health because i knew that there was something wrong with me that wasn't going to be cured with medication after medication.

Through my own personal research, and feedback from my now wife, everything seemed to be pointing to a condition called sleep apnea.

Excited with this information and the idea that there was an underlying issue my whole life that could now be addressed and fixed, I brought it to the attention of my doctor with a reaction from him that I didnt know what i was talking about because i didn't fit the description of someone with this issue.

So I left the dr.'s office frustrated and upset, with no answers to this long ongoing issue except more meds.

I decided to continue to do what i could to come up with anything else that might be the reason behind my fatigue issue. Yet still everything kept pointing back to my original theory, sleep apnea!

It was only a few months from that defeating last doctors appointment that i was back, but this time with more confidence in my opinion and demanded that I be set up for a sleep study. Of course the doctor stuck by his original belief that i was wrong, but set me up with an appt. with an ENT Dr. instead.

After a short physical exam with the ENT doctor, he agreed to, and set up an overnight sleep study for me! After the two overnight studies, and all was said and done, I found out that I suffered from moderate to severe sleep apnea. You could only imagine all the emotions I felt to finally learn of the underlying cause that had such a negative impact on me for well over 15 years(was 27yo at this point).

I was quickly set up with a cpap machine to keep my airways open while i slept at night. The idea that i had to wear something that attached to my head and pushed air through my nose was something to get used to, but it meant actually getting the quality of sleep your supposed to get, and didnt involve drugs and there side effects.

So why am I asking for help/advice to my current state of being mentally and physically fatigued?
Well some of those medications side effects were very addicting...The main one being the ADHD med...Adderall.

Because I was on it for so long, upon cessation of taking that Med. I would going into a state of severe mental and physical fatigue. And its not that I would sleep all night and all day. The struggles would be more with a lack of motivation to do anything at all.
I would be depressed and negative mentally. Physically, to go from getting up out of bed and moving to the couch was like a chore. I wouldn't eat like i should because to get up and make something would exhaust me so much to the point where i would lose my appetite.

The last few years for me haven't been all that great(unemployed to crappy job back to unemployed. Pressure from wife to get pregnant and finally do get prego but at fist Dr. checkup find out we lost it.). However, I jut found out after three interviews that ill be starting a job here soon that I really wanted! Also, my wife and I are ready to start trying again for a baby, and I want to make sure I am healthy enough to be able to conceive again, but also be stable so that I am successful with this new job, a husband that my wife expects, and hopefully a father that my child can be proud of.

My worries are that my adrenal glands have been heavily impacted by the use of medical stimulants for so long. Its to the point that even caffeine doesn't affect me at all.

I would like to be able to ween off the stims while taking a "supplement(s)" that will help ease the withdrawls while getting me back to a point where I can be full of energy without any kind of stim!

Sorry if i have rambled on. I really hope to get some feedback and advice to help me out of this current situation and into a healthier happy one!! Thanks!

 

[fryzway]

Sorry to hear your going through the same thing I am ! I use my Cpap religiously everynight and I also take Nuvigil which is similar to Adderal without making you feel like your on cocain, which I hear is what Adderal does. I just ordered Humanifort from doing some research on here and the net, it's supposed to be good for the Adrenals and regulating a lot of hormones. I am also on Depakote and Celexa which I'm sure adds to my lethargy. I have been un able to work at my job as a Union Ironworker for quite some time now due to always being exhausted. I am however, more awake at night for whatever reason. I have had to s of labs and scans and tests, all of which come up normal. I hope ppl who know why thy are talking about chime in on this. I am 28 btw

 

[bbminded]

Thanks for sharing fryzway...... we can def. relate!

I have also heard and known about Humanofort for a while. I think I have been procrastinating on purchasing a bottle of it. But i know i want to try it based on all the potential benefits that are listed!
Just curious who you decided to go with when you purchased your bottle of Humanofort?
Another thing we have in common is the fact that we are more night time people as opposed to morning. I have always been like this, before and even after being diagnosed with sleep apnea.
I have actually been planning on doing a 4 week run with Cerebrolysin, bio/neuro-feedback therapy, and mental/physical tasks that are new and challenging to me! The thing with Cere though is that you HAVE TO do things new and challenging in order to get the benefits that Cere has been touted for having(this would be my second time using it. about 6-8 months ago i ran a 3 week protocol of it and did experience some of the positive effects, but I also know that I could have done more challenging training).

Im looking forward to more input from others here on the board!! Thanks

Sorry to hear your going through the same thing I am ! I use my Cpap religiously everynight and I also take Nuvigil which is similar to Adderal without making you feel like your on cocain, which I hear is what Adderal does. I just ordered Humanifort from doing some research on here and the net, it's supposed to be good for the Adrenals and regulating a lot of hormones. I am also on Depakote and Celexa which I'm sure adds to my lethargy. I have been un able to work at my job as a Union Ironworker for quite some time now due to always being exhausted. I am however, more awake at night for whatever reason. I have had to s of labs and scans and tests, all of which come up normal. I hope ppl who know why thy are talking about chime in on this. I am 28 btw

 

[Stewie]

Your persistence paid off, kudos too you!
Sleep apnea as your probably aware wreaks havoc on the body, leaving a nasty path of disaster on the cardiovascular and endocrine system.

I also went years with undiagnosed sleep apnea,same situation as yourself by asking to have a sleep study done … even my pulmonary physician stated pre sleep study he didn't believe I had sleep apnea … I don't go a night without wearing my CPAP!

Sounds as you may be in a state of Hypoadrenia as you have mentioned.

Your path has just begun, fine tuning your hormonal status will take some trial and error,and time… if possible pursue with the same persistence to ask you physician to check.

Urinary Cortisol
Serum Cortisol
ACTH

TBG
TSH
T3
FT3
rT3
T4
SHBG
LH/FSH
Testosterone, Bio Available Testosterone
Dihydrotestosterone
Total Estrogens including sub sets of Estrogen, E1,E2 and E3
Progesterone
Pregenolone
Prolactin
DHEA Sulfate
HgbA1C
Glucose
C-peptide
Amylase
Lipase
Hepatic Function Panel
Basic Metabolic Panel
Iron Panel including Saturation and Ferritin
CBC with Differential
Lipid panel
CRP
PSA
DRE
Vitamin D 25 Hydroxy
Homocystine

Ask to be screened for Arteriosclerosis, long-term Sleep Apnea has this horrible effect.

I know your looking for a better sense of well being, personally I wouldn't supplement with anything … as of yet.

You can move the hands of the clock … time remains the same

Start with lipids then work up the latter… Address deficiencies, Fix Hormones …

 

[TNH]

I am in a similar situation.
Adderall depletes the brain of dopamine, a neurotransmitter that is responsible for motivation as well as the rewarding feeling of a job well done.
Do a google search for boosting dopamine levels naturally.
Tyrosine and some other supplements will come up, you can read about dosing and combos with other supps to help 'rebuild' your brain's previous levels.

The thing that sucks about adrenal fatigue and coming back from addiction (your brain was essentially physically addicted to adderall, so it stopped producing dopamine, much like how testes stop producing test when you take AAS), is that it can take a very long time to come back from.

Staying away from all stimulants (including caffeine) will help you recover.

 

[bbminded]

Thanks Stewie,

It really baffles me how so many go undiagnosed for sleep apnea, when there is a device(Eccovision Acoustic Rhinometer and Pharyngometer) doctors can purchase(not expensive either) to test for obstructions in a patients nasal and throat that only takes 10 minutes at most and the doctor can have his nurses do instead of him/her. *You can check out a company called Sleep Group Solutions for more info. Cant hurt to suggest it if you work for a doctor or think your doctor might see the benefits of having such a tool in their practice. sleepgs.com

If you think about the ramifications of your body not getting the proper rest required night after night after night. Obviously constant fatigue,depression,anxiety,mental issues,cardiovascular,endo, and the list can go on and on. And add the number of estimated people living with sleep apnea that have gone undiagnosed, its no wonder why so many people are on so many different medications. But if more attention is taken to finding the underlying cause to peoples health issues, then there would be less people on meds they dont need. Imagine suffering with depression,anxiety,mental fog,chronic fatigue etc. and finding out that the solution/cure to these issues is using a non-invasive machine at night while you sleep! No more prescriptions and the side effects associated with them. But i guess the drug companies wouldn't like this to much would they!?

I have learned that if you don't have, or cant find a really good doctor, than you have to be pro-active when it comes to your health! Maybe NFL super star Reggie White who died at the age of 43, would still be alive if he was diagnosed and treated earlier in his life with sleep apnea.**broken link removed**

I have actually had recent blood work done. And again, asking for them to check other variables was met with resistance. The doctor would say "there is no reason to check for any of those xyz". I would be lucky to get them to check for an additional 1 or 2 things outside a normal blood work. Plus its not like there paying for it. I have insurance, and whatever doesnt get covered I get a bill that I pay.
This brings up another thing i have questioned ever since finally finding out I have sleep apnea........Why has no doctor ever been concerned to have me get an MRI or other device to check for brain damage? To go so many years having my brain being deprived of oxygen every night(by the way i had 260 apneas during my 6 hour sleep study). And dont think I haven't brought up the issue of hypoxia, and the possible damage I might have. But as usual, doctors just brush me off like I don't know what im talking about, or think that its not neccesary.

I will look into Arteriosclerosis Stewie as you have mentioned in your post!! One thing though in regards to my blood work thats always seemed to be somewhat of an issue is my cholesterol. Its actually one of the few things that seems to run in my family(the other being skin scancer). I wont however take any statins unless its an emergency, and then still would get off as fast as i could.

That you also Stewie for contributing to my thread and your advice! Anytime i see a post related to sleep apnea I always make a point to contribute, and bring as much awareness as i can to the issue so others might not have to go as long as i did undiagnosed!!

Your persistence paid off, kudos too you!
Sleep apnea as your probably aware wreaks havoc on the body, leaving a nasty path of disaster on the cardiovascular and endocrine system.

I also went years with undiagnosed sleep apnea,same situation as yourself by asking to have a sleep study done … even my pulmonary physician stated pre sleep study he didn't believe I had sleep apnea … I don't go a night without it!

Sounds as you may be in a state of Hypoadrenia as you have mentioned.

Your path has just begun, fine tuning your hormonal status will take some trial and error,and time… if possible pursue with the same persistence to ask you physician to check.

Urinary Cortisol
Serum Cortisol
ACTH

TBG
TSH
T3
FT3
rT3
T4
SHBG
LH/FSH
Testosterone, Bio Available Testosterone
Dihydrotestosterone
Total Estrogens including sub sets of Estrogen, E1,E2 and E3
Progesterone
Pregenolone
Prolactin
DHEA Sulfate
HgbA1C
Glucose
C-peptide
Amylase
Lipase
Hepatic Function Panel
Basic Metabolic Panel
Iron Panel including Saturation and Ferritin
CBC with Differential
Lipid panel
CRP
PSA
DRE
Vitamin D 25 Hydroxy
Homocystine

Ask to be screened for Arteriosclerosis, long-term Sleep Apnea has this horrible effect.

I know your looking for a better sense of well being, personally I wouldn't supplement with anything … as of yet.

You can move the hands of the clock … time remains the same

Start with lipids then work up the latter… Address deficiencies, Fix Hormones …

 

[bbminded]

Great point TNH about how adderall negatively affects/depletes your dopamine levels. I have actually used Deprenyl(selegiline) from Jumex before and noticed the effects, especially if I took a little to much as it would cause me to be overly aggressive.
Tyrosine is a great otc supplement as you mentioned! Hydergine is another supp that can help with mental fatigue!

Thanks TNH for your input and advice. Where are you in the phase of restoring your neuro-chemical balance? Are you trying to give up adderall or do you really need it?

I am in a similar situation.
Adderall depletes the brain of dopamine, a neurotransmitter that is responsible for motivation as well as the rewarding feeling of a job well done.
Do a google search for boosting dopamine levels naturally.
Tyrosine and some other supplements will come up, you can read about dosing and combos with other supps to help 'rebuild' your brain's previous levels.

The thing that sucks about adrenal fatigue and coming back from addiction (your brain was essentially physically addicted to adderall, so it stopped producing dopamine, much like how testes stop producing test when you take AAS), is that it can take a very long time to come back from.

Staying away from all stimulants (including caffeine) will help you recover.

 

[bananas007]

Bro,
sorry to hear about what you went through.

But be patient here. You have been on some strong drugs for a good part of your life. you are not gonna feel normal all of a sudden. Stop looking for something that is not there, when there is something so obvious thats causing your fatigue. (stopping the drugs).

Adrenal fatigue is NOT a medical condition and lets say even if you measure your cortisol levels what are you gonna do if they are a bit off? Nothing.

Anyways my advice is USE the CPAP every night. Take it easy,, maybe use modafinil instead of adderall and slowly wean off. It may take a while but no need to go chasing for something exotic and put more stuff in your body then u need too.

 

[bananas007]

oh yeah, and go smack the doctor that didnt get you a sleep study a long time ago. If it was him going through what u went through he wuold be first in line at teh sleep lab.

 

[bbminded]

LOL..... I would have to smack several doctors actually!

Its funny you mentioned modafinil. I actually asked my doctor about switching me to modafinil because I had read that it isnt as harsh as adderall and still provided some benefits. And i Shit you not, I got kicked out of that doctors office for asking him that question. I was in complete shock because I didnt ask him in a way that was cocky or rude at all. He just went off on me and asked if i was questioning his judgement.
Come to find out later, he is known as one of the Dr.'s in this area who prescribes the highest amount of painkillers as well as suboxine. And he is an O.D., not an M.D. which i found out later also and was surprised.

its all good though. I can get Modafinil(adrafinil) now easily!

oh yeah, and go smack the doctor that didnt get you a sleep study a long time ago. If it was him going through what u went through he wuold be first in line at teh sleep lab.

 

[Ehren]

Sorry to hear of your problem, BBminded. Could your problem just be insulin sensitivity? That was it for me.

It sounds very much like what I experienced throughout childhood, high-school and into college. I could only pay attention or had any energy at all when I was involved in athletics. Ok, the mind-numbing deficiencies of the public school system definitely contributed. But there was another issue that I just stumbled upon, finally, after college: Blood sugar. I had eaten the high-carb American diet all my life and just added more protein to it as I progressed in sports. The carbs were killin me though.

When I stopped Power Lifting and Oly Lifting and got into BBing, I had my first experiences with cutting down, lowering carbs. Suddenly, my mind was clear, I had energy, sleep improved dramatically.

Even now, at nearly 40 years old, I dread "high carb" days. I know I'm gonna feel like hell that day, get bloated, be tired. And we're talking about maybe 300 grams of complex carbs spread out over a day.

It's good that you're checking every possibility, but for me, the solution was simple. I just don't need many carbs to operate. I can fill out in a couple days and that's enough. Then back to high protein, high (good) fats and as few carbs as possible.

Just throwing this simple possibility out there as the biggest items often get overlooked when we get into close inspection of a problem.

 

[Stewie]

Extent and Health Consequences of Chronic Sleep Loss and Sleep Disorders - Sleep Disorders and Sleep Deprivation - NCBI Bookshelf

Paul Reller L.Ac.

 

[bbminded]

You bring up an interesting point Ehren. Thinking back to my childhood and into my adult years i have never had any issues or alarms that indicated I might have any blood sugar issues.
Growing up, I consider myself fortunate to have parents that most always cooked healthy meals for us. A treat for us would be going out to Ryans buffet restaurant once a month, or having fast food and ice cream when it was the weekend for me and my brother to stay with my mom.

Once graduating from high school and moving out on my own, my diet has been to many different extremes. Im lucky though now, because my wife had parents that were the same(if not more healthy) when it came to there meals. So we eat alot of fish(she grew up in Alaska, so fish was a staple part of there diet), vegetables, healthy carbs and fresh fruit!

I will start to take more attention though to my blood sugar! Thanks for the input Ehren!

Sorry to hear of your problem, BBminded. Could your problem just be insulin sensitivity? That was it for me.

It sounds very much like what I experienced throughout childhood, high-school and into college. I could only pay attention or had any energy at all when I was involved in athletics. Ok, the mind-numbing deficiencies of the public school system definitely contributed. But there was another issue that I just stumbled upon, finally, after college: Blood sugar. I had eaten the high-carb American diet all my life and just added more protein to it as I progressed in sports. The carbs were killin me though.

When I stopped Power Lifting and Oly Lifting and got into BBing, I had my first experiences with cutting down, lowering carbs. Suddenly, my mind was clear, I had energy, sleep improved dramatically.

Even now, at nearly 40 years old, I dread "high carb" days. I know I'm gonna feel like hell that day, get bloated, be tired. And we're talking about maybe 300 grams of complex carbs spread out over a day.

It's good that you're checking every possibility, but for me, the solution was simple. I just don't need many carbs to operate. I can fill out in a couple days and that's enough. Then back to high protein, high (good) fats and as few carbs as possible.

Just throwing this simple possibility out there as the biggest items often get overlooked when we get into close inspection of a problem.

 

[bananas007]

You bring up an interesting point Ehren. Thinking back to my childhood and into my adult years i have never had any issues or alarms that indicated I might have any blood sugar issues.
Growing up, I consider myself fortunate to have parents that most always cooked healthy meals for us. A treat for us would be going out to Ryans buffet restaurant once a month, or having fast food and ice cream when it was the weekend for me and my brother to stay with my mom.

Once graduating from high school and moving out on my own, my diet has been to many different extremes. Im lucky though now, because my wife had parents that were the same(if not more healthy) when it came to there meals. So we eat alot of fish(she grew up in Alaska, so fish was a staple part of there diet), vegetables, healthy carbs and fresh fruit!

I will start to take more attention though to my blood sugar! Thanks for the input Ehren!

BBMinded i sent you a pm.

 

[bbminded]

Great link Stewie,

Alot of good information in there!!

It actually reminded me of another issue that I would suffer from when withdrawing from prescription stims. RLS(Restless Leg Syndrome) would come on very hard, as if i was going through growing pains again but x10 regarding pain. It would be the main reason that i would lose sleep because of the pain.

I have read that Pramipexole can help alot with this issue, so i may have to give it a try!

Great read though Stewie, and i hope alot of people take the time to check it out themselves!!

Extent and Health Consequences of Chronic Sleep Loss and Sleep Disorders - Sleep Disorders and Sleep Deprivation - NCBI Bookshelf

Paul Reller L.Ac.

 

[matt1164]

can I ask your height/ weight?

I went to a doctor and was diagnosed with mild sleep apnea and his honest opinion was for me to lose weight. I weighed 240 at the time. I did go down to 225 and i felt better.

if you are whats considered overweight or have a high bmi, regardless of muscle mass. I'd consider losing weight first. see if it helps. muscles aren't everything

 

[bbminded]

Hi Matt,

I am 6ft, 205lbs and 33yo. I was always very skinny growing up and had a very hard time gaining muscle. And one of the reasons was because my body was never able to rest while asleep, so i was burning calories day and night.

My issue was that my tonsils and adnoids were larger than normal, deviated septum, and my tongue is larger than normal in the back. Actually my tongue is what would cause the most problems as it would fall back in my throat when i was sleeping and basically choke me.
There is a surgery they can do, but it puts you "out of commission" for atleast two weeks to recover, and the chances that sleep apnea would return are about 50%.
Im used to wearing my cpap machine. Im lucky that i can use the nasal pillows as opposed to people who have to wear a sealed mask around there face.

can I ask your height/ weight?

I went to a doctor and was diagnosed with mild sleep apnea and his honest opinion was for me to lose weight. I weighed 240 at the time. I did go down to 225 and i felt better.

if you are whats considered overweight or have a high bmi, regardless of muscle mass. I'd consider losing weight first. see if it helps. muscles aren't everything

 

[Big Danny]

I'm fine now thanks to T3 and synthelamin b12

 

[IPGear]

Forgive us if we missed something you said and got it all wrong. But unless you can figure out where you are at psychologically and phisiologically any drug you use will be a temprorary fix and will most likely leave you worse off then you were.

You sound depressed. Or your story sounds depressing. There maybe something physiological that can be treated but you are not going to find it self treating. If you are cycling you are banging your adrenals and this may be making things worse.

Sometimes the right anti depressent will improve reception like kicking the television does when using rabbit ears.

And sometimes thats enough to move us out of the funk we are in. Adderall for most of us like cocaine and so many other drugs pays dividends initially, but most of us end up paying more than we had hoped. But people who need it need it.

We think you should get a psych work up that includes lab testing. Or just recognize that you are not alone, as it sounds like everyone elses life to some degree.

Or as so many have found, find a power greater than yourself and see if theres not something in that that changes everything.

Its treatable but few find the answer in self treating.

Wishing you the very best,

IPG

 

[renewlyf]

Great post IP :yeahthat:

bbminded,
Taking another drug like modifil is not the answer you're looking for in my opinion. It will just prolong your body's ability to recover.
I sent you a pm with information on a Naturopathic Dr friend of mine that specializes in just this kind of treatment. It has helped me with withdrawls from many substances. Check it out and if you have any questions about this or recovery feel free to pm me!

Take Care,
Renewlyf