Fasted period for HGH Frag?

[sonicwaste]

when I use gh frag, I am almost always doing a psmf.

Protein between 1.5 and 2g per lbs LBM... Trending toward the 2g multiplier.
Fat is lower in the 12-20g range
carbs are from vegetables, usually in the 15-20g range

With that, I am dosing gh frag all day/night. Not much competing energy substrate=rapid fat reduction.

I usually come in at the 1000-1200 calorie range... Depends on what kind of meat I am eating and how much vegetables I eat.

For me, a protocol like this lasts no longer than 2 weeks... After 2 weeks, small re-feed and re-approach if needed.

I tend to use this protocol only when I am lean and trying to get super lean.

 

[rock75]

There was a thread on here just 2 days ago where I was trying to get the point across w/out directing to other sites w/ other opinions supporting it. Sometimes people just don't want to believe that they don't have to eat every three hours no matter what happens in their life, NEVER MISS A MEAL. As neurotic as that sounds, it is just the way most are that sling the iron. Also there is big difference fasting while sleeping (???????) and fasting while awake. I am not sure i would call sleeping -fasting, but whatever
But getting back to the original reason for the thread, if you mobilize the fat, you can't eat and expect to use it. So.... the longer you can hold off w/out eating the better chance you have to use the mobilized fat for fuel. Mobilization without utilization will equal minimal benefit, so no amino's necessary, and you will be fine. No muscle loss, don't worry I am sure you are eating protein, catabolism might be an overused word. get ready for stage and some go down to 1200-1500 calories/day, self included (not that I'm a superheavy). your fine

-c

I agree with cm 100%. Some people seem to think muscle is just going to disappear if you don't eat ever 2.6765 hours on the dot.

Frag would work great with IF. Leangains style 16/8.

that's funny cause ...My general position on the fasted phase is that it should last through the night and during the morning hours. Ideally the fast should then be broken at noon or shortly thereafter if you arise at 6-7 AM like most people. Afternoons and evenings are usually spent in the fed state. **broken link removed**

and i wld love to be on dats forum so anything anyone cld do to get me on appreciated greatly!!

 

[teewoods]

Ok, i will be dosing before bed, then I awake 7-8 hours later, then I'll dose again, then drive, lift, cardio, shower (3 hours total), then first meal. SO that should be 10-11 hours of fasting along with burning off a good amount in gym.

Thank you all for responses!

its pointless dosing before bed, and yes you do need aminos if you want to optimise fat loss. i,d rather take the intended night dose an hour b4 your normal morning dose

 

[rock75]

its pointless dosing before bed, and yes you do need aminos if you want to optimise fat loss. i,d rather take the intended night dose an hour b4 your normal morning dose

y is that? then it would be pointless to dose any frag at night...

 

[sonicwaste]

its pointless dosing before bed, and yes you do need aminos if you want to optimise fat loss. i,d rather take the intended night dose an hour b4 your normal morning dose

I don't understand what you mean re: aminos to optimize fat loss

 

[stylus]

Always dose Frag on empty stomach, even though it dose not spike insulin, its still wise to dose on empty stomach, or when insulin is low in body.

You have to dose this multiple times per day, just like any other pep. If you are dosing under 1mg, you are wasting your time. Break 1mg into 3 shots.

Im sure I will get bashed, but honestly you need at least 800mcgs even better to hit 1000mcgs. I dose early am, just like hgh, on empty stomach as soon as I wake up. This gives me time to get ready, and I can then eat some protein, about 20 min after injection. Without a doubt though, hgh frag is best right before cardio. Frag is dirt cheap. Dont try to dose low because your afraid to spend money. This is a commitment, just like anything else. If you cannot afford a true protocol, then dont waste time and your hard earned cash.. Just my humble opinion.

By the way, you dont need to fast for frag. Thats a weird way of looking at it. If your diet is clean, your good to go, its that simple!!! Just dose on empty stomach. Another thing, frag is also good at night, as it dosent spike gh levels. You burn alot of calories while sleeping, yes I said you burn alot of calories while sleeping. This is when you are repairing, and growing, so hgh frag is also a benefit while you rest and recover....

 

[sonicwaste]

sleep=no food intake (while sleeping)=fasting

 

[sonicwaste]

Always dose Frag on empty stomach, even though it dose not spike insulin, its still wise to dose on empty stomach, or when insulin is low in body.

You have to dose this multiple times per day, just like any other pep. If you are dosing under 1mg, you are wasting your time. Break 1mg into 3 shots.

Im sure I will get bashed, but honestly you need at least 800mcgs even better to hit 1000mcgs. I dose early am, just like hgh, on empty stomach as soon as I wake up. This gives me time to get ready, and I can then eat some protein, about 20 min after injection. Without a doubt though, hgh frag is best right before cardio. Frag is dirt cheap. Dont try to dose low because your afraid to spend money. This is a commitment, just like anything else. If you cannot afford a true protocol, then dont waste time and your hard earned cash.. Just my humble opinion.

I typically dose ipamorelin/ghrp-2/mod grf before cardio, then gh frag throughout day after that.

 

[stylus]

I typically dose ipamorelin/ghrp-2/mod grf before cardio, then gh frag throughout day after that.

My friend.. pin all 3 before workout!!! Trust Me!!!! Of all the peps, frag is almost designed for pre cardio.. At least give it a shot, no pun intended..

Pin your frag with your other peps!! If you are a 2x daily protocol, thats cool, but I would do one more pin with frag, making this a3x a day protocol. 2x daily with your ghrp/and ghrh, then one more frag dose a few hours later.

 

[sonicwaste]

My friend.. pin all 3 before workout!!! Trust Me!!!! Of all the peps, frag is almost designed for pre cardio.. At least give it a shot, no pun intended..

Pin your frag with your other peps!! If you are a 2x daily protocol, thats cool, but I would do one more pin with frag, making this a3x a day protocol. 2x daily with your ghrp/and ghrh, then one more frag dose a few hours later.

I'll try it for sure. I was thinking the ipa/ghrp/mod grf ffa release would pretty much max out... But now that I think about it, the frag could certainly add to the ffa release - thus maxing it out.

I've got 2 more weeks of scheduled fat loss. I will be able to easily compare the peptides+frag pre cardio to peptides only pre cardio.

 

[teewoods]

y is that? then it would be pointless to dose any frag at night...

not if they provide different effects. frag releases FFA which have to be utilised within a given time. Now tell me how you intend to do this when you are asleep? Has for other frags, their uses go beyond the release of FFA and help with an IGf increase, healing, anti againg e.t.c all perfect while you are asleep.

 

[stylus]

not if they provide different effects. frag releases FFA which have to be utilised within a given time. Now tell me how you intend to do this when you are asleep? Has for other frags, their uses go beyond the release of FFA and help with an IGf increase, healing, anti againg e.t.c all perfect while you are asleep.

Just because your asleep, you dont quit burning calories. This is when you repair, and build. Wouldnt it make sense that frag can only add assistance to this sequence of events...???

 

[teewoods]

I don't understand what you mean re: aminos to optimize fat loss

Taking BCAAs b4 cardio not only prevents the breakdown of muscle but also boosts performance. Now many might argue by doing light cardio they wont be breaking down muscle, perhaps but if anyone really is serious about fatloss, they need to be doing Medium/high cardio first thing in the mornging just like boxers getting into fighting weight have done for decades. l have done both types of cardio on empty and difference is incredible esp when i added bcaas pre-workout.

 

[sonicwaste]

Taking BCAAs b4 cardio not only prevents the breakdown of muscle but also boosts performance. Now many might argue by doing light cardio they wont be breaking down muscle, perhaps but if anyone really is serious about fatloss, they need to be doing Medium/high cardio first thing in the mornging just like boxers getting into fighting weight have done for decades. l have done both types of cardio on empty and difference is incredible esp when i added bcaas pre-workout.

aminos=insulin secretion=inhibition of free fatty release

 

[teewoods]

Just because your asleep, you dont quit burning calories. This is when you repair, and build. Wouldnt it make sense that frag can only add assistance to this sequence of events...???

what assistance aside from the release of free fatty acids does it provide?

yes we burn calories while asleep but Frag does not burn calories , we all know all it does is release free fatty acids which could be used as a form of energy if you did cardio. Just how do optimze this if you are asleep? So no it wont make sense to release FFA and not use it.

 

[cm]

Taking BCAAs b4 cardio not only prevents the breakdown of muscle but also boosts performance. Now many might argue by doing light cardio they wont be breaking down muscle, perhaps but if anyone really is serious about fatloss, they need to be doing Medium/high cardio first thing in the mornging just like boxers getting into fighting weight have done for decades. l have done both types of cardio on empty and difference is incredible esp when i added bcaas pre-workout.

bodybuilders don't train like boxers. I have never, ever met a successful high level bodybuilder who does cardio like that, not that you are not lean, but you can't be great on stage, no offense to you or your current program. You just can't possibly be thick and dense, while skin is peeled if you beat yourself into the ground.
Road work like a boxer is a death sentence.
You should never be doing cardio that hard that you need amino's to spare muscle tissue.
I then refer back to sonic and his artful equation. Well stated
-c

 

[sonicwaste]

what assistance aside from the release of free fatty acids does it provide?

yes we burn calories while asleep but Frag does not burn calories , we all know all it does is release free fatty acids which could be used as a form of energy if you did cardio. Just how do optimze this if you are asleep? So no it wont make sense to release FFA and not use it.

adipose tissue itself will utilize the ffa's

 

[Steve123]

I would say if your goal is fat loss, which it should be with 176, there really shouldn't be a big meal. maybe even meals w/just pro, maybe a little fat, but i would be careful with the carbs. Look, getting lean (stage lean) usually brings with it some form of suffering, so there are many ways to do this. Going a little lower calories here and there is one solution with this research
If you are not competing, i don't really know what is the best way. I guess there is some more leeway.
-c

Thanks C. Right now, I'm on my first phase of fat loss - i.e., get the slop off by May. The second phase, which will begin in June will be contest prep for a show in OCtober. I'm down 22# and looking to shake another 20# by May. Basically, I'm trying to line myself up for an easy (ier) contest prep starting in June...if there is such a thing. Do you think 3 weeks on the 176 with a very restricted diet would give me an edge?

 

[cm]

you'll need a 3 pack, but great kick start, but you can revisit it later as well. Since your off season right now maybe use it as a primer, then feed, prime, then feed etc. Just don't be in weight loss mode for 9 months unless you really need it. seems excesive
-c

 

[rock75]

not if they provide different effects. frag releases FFA which have to be utilised within a given time. Now tell me how you intend to do this when you are asleep? Has for other frags, their uses go beyond the release of FFA and help with an IGf increase, healing, anti againg e.t.c all perfect while you are asleep.

i understand what frag does, as several others have mentioned in the last few posts, calories are burned during sleep, if ffa is released during this time it too will be burned...that said, will more be released and burned during cardio yes. I am not saying Dat or any of you are wrong but to say that it won't work is ridiculous, in addition to the repair - fat loss also happens while you are sleeping as well!